The Myth of saying that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception !

[No Sheep Here]

Everybody is going to be coming to the same conclusions pretty soon...

Not you though, right? you already have the right idea conclusion in mind, huh? Yea, that's what you all say. Try a better argument

 

[godrulz]

Because he isn't omniscient. The Bible says so. He says he has been suprised at what people do. If you are all powerful, then you can not be all knowing. Because if you knwo what is going to happen, then you can not stop it.

You are arguing with a non believer, you know that right?

Even Open Theists (who are wrongly accused of denying omniscience) do not deny God's omniscience since it is a biblical truth. We just understand it correctly (there is nothing God is ignorant of since He knows all that is knowable, but some things are inherently unknowable in a non-deterministic, contingent universe).

You will be hard pressed to find a believer who denies that God is omnipotent or omniscient. To say the Bible says your view proves you are a mental midget and should not be debating theology, especially with an unbeliever who wants coherence.

You are confusing exhaustive definite foreknowledge (incompatible with libertarian free will) and omniscience. Thanks for not helping (nor does it help to imply I am an unbeliever when I am defending and proclaiming the faith, unlike you who just nips at our heels like a puppet of the accuser of the brethren Jude 3).

 

[godrulz]

You have an interesting view on this that I am not use to hearing Nick. Can you elaborate more on this? So you don't god id all-knowing? Am I interpreting what you are saying correctly?

Nick is denying something that all Christians affirm. Don't look to him as a rep of biblical, historical, orthodox Christianity (though he is a Christian, just not a balanced one).

 

[godrulz]

Everybody is going to be coming to the same conclusions pretty soon...

you guys have been saying that for close to two thousand years....i'm pretty sure its a pipe dream

Most of the world's true Christians agree on the essentials of the faith.

Instead of the mockers sticking their noses in our theological debates, they should be deciding for or against the gospel, the person and work of Christ.

This is how simple it is: Jn. 3:16 (yes) vs Jn. 3:36 (no).

Rom. 1:16
I Cor. 1:23-24

 

[YahuShuan]

Not you though, right? you already have the right idea conclusion in mind, huh? Yea, that's what you all say. Try a better argument

Try a coherant one! :rotfl:

 

[horiturk]

who gets to determine who the true christians are? membership to that cabal is exclusive?

 

[No Sheep Here]

This is how simple it is: Jn. 3:16 (yes) vs Jn. 3:36 (no).

Rom. 1:16
I Cor. 1:23-24

It's not that simple but to the simple minded. It's in a book that also makes a lot of other obviously bogus claims just like other religious books. Simple enough for me not to believe. The hard part for me is understanding why you believe it.

 

[No Sheep Here]

Try a coherant one! :rotfl:

Just as I thought. I like when you guys are reduced to the simple minded nature that truly reflects your thought process.

 

[YahuShuan]

Most of the world's true Christians agree on the essentials of the faith.

Instead of the mockers sticking their noses in our theological debates, they should be deciding for or against the gospel, the person and work of Christ.

This is how simple it is: Jn. 3:16 (yes) vs Jn. 3:36 (no).

Rom. 1:16
I Cor. 1:23-24

Yes. Simple it is. For a long time I was not seeing that fully. Yet over and over I was troubled, hearing "Father forgive them they know not what they do", and "the Father desires that none should perish", that the Son died to "take away the sins of the world", "once, for all". And I ate a piece of bread and drownt in the tears.

Then I woke up. I had a different outlook. Like a puppy that just got let out by a Master that would love him. And I seek to please Him. I don't care what it takes. He said I could "do anything if you believe".

That's my nutshell and I'm stickin' to it. His Words are the only words I do understand it seems. They are the only true joy I have in my life, and the blessings He has given me. The relationship we share is one I never had when I was young. And as I grew I was rebellious beyond even my own inherited boundries, because I didn't have a father, dad, or whathaveyou, and all I saw was sinfulness. So that is what I learned. This churchschool that churchschool, then into the hands of publicschool...aaaaaaaaaaargh! First learned to lie from my parents, from something they "inherited, lies and things of no value", SANTA. I learned it supposedly was ok to lie. Believing in santa taught me to lie to my parents, taught me that they could lie to me...and I wouldn't even know it for years! A "Christian Holiday" is it? Hmmmmn? Do you understand where I'm coming from? Well from there on in, who could I believe that walked this earth?

The sins of my life I take the blame for, but I turned them over to Messiah Yahu'Shua, and know He paid the ransom for my life, by His death and Resurrection. I'd be pretty stupid if I didn't want to know what pleases Him and His Father. Now I have the Father I never had. And a "Friend closer than a brother". And a Brother too. A brother like no other. The Master Teacher. And I think "teacher". And I think "Torah" means "instructions". And I begin to see because I sought. I mean I definitely could not deny something was missing to be lied to by folks who stoof for the Bible and what was in it. And yep. "Truly" we would say in these last days.

But we must have missed the part about looking up and asking "what have I done?" Seems we went without doing that and right into stating what it is that everybody else is doing...but ourselves. Looking into that mirror, forgeting what we saw. We all do it. We all went through it. We all will go through it. IF we "endure". He will bring us through! So Halle lu Yah! Shalom

 

[godrulz]

who gets to determine who the true christians are? membership to that cabal is exclusive?

God is the Judge and the Bible is the standard. The problem is translating and interpreting it properly.

What don't you understand about Jn. 3:16?

Even a child can understand the love of God in Christmas and Easter. The wisdom of God in coming as a baby, dying, rising from the dead, and returning in power and glory is lost on those blinded to spiritual truth/reality.

 

[YahuShuan]

Just as I thought. I like when you guys are reduced to the simple minded nature that truly reflects your thought process.

You're not exactly the slickest rock in the creek are you? I mean really, if you are going to act like that then you're gonna have to git some humor out of us. You get facts from us, and then try to baffle us with your you know what. Ain't happenin', k.

 

[YahuShuan]

God is the Judge and the Bible is the standard. The problem is translating and interpreting it properly.

What don't you understand about Jn. 3:16?

The problem as I see it is because we use our own interpretations, it says what it means and means what it says, first and foremost...and reading the concordance(s) is a BIG help to see what it actually does say. Seeing the agreements between the OT and the NT is a BIG BIG HELP.

 

[No Sheep Here]

You're not exactly the slickest rock in the creek are you? I mean really, if you are going to act like that then you're gonna have to git some humor out of us. You get facts from us, and then try to baffle us with your you know what. Ain't happenin', k.

First off it's "get, not "git". Second, I have received no facts from you. If there was anything factual about what's being said here then we'd all be agreeing. Sun in the sky. Fact. Moon in the sky. Fact. Jesus Christ is god. Not a fact, it's opinion. Hell exist. Not a fact, it's opinion.

What facts have you got for me?

 

[godrulz]

First off it's "get, not "git". Second, I have received no facts from you. If there was anything factual about what's being said here then we'd all be agreeing. Sun in the sky. Fact. Moon in the sky. Fact. Jesus Christ is god. Not a fact, it's opinion. Hell exist. Not a fact, it's opinion.

What facts have you got for me?

You reject spiritual truth/ reality because it is not secular? Revelation is truth whether you accept it or not. God is responsible to communicate truth, so you are calling God a liar, yet fallible men you accept.

 

[No Sheep Here]

You reject spiritual truth/ reality because it is not secular? Revelation is truth whether you accept it or not. God is responsible to communicate truth, so you are calling God a liar, yet fallible men you accept.

What has secular got to do with it? That seems like an assumption on your part. And for the record, there are many religions, and yours is just one of many. For you to say I reject truth, you are asserting that I know your claim to be true. No god has talked to me and told me your beliefs are true. Heck, he hasn't talked to about 4 billion people and told them of your truth either. The majority of the world is unaware of your truth claim.

I suggest you try another approach, because your assertions about me are way off and you are not being convincing or sensible at all. Whatever truth you claim to know or have, is rejected by many Christians so ...

BTW, I am interested in hearing what men I accept as you claim. Who do I accept and in what sense do I accept them? I'll be waiting to hear this

 

[beloved57]

Those of you who believe the false teaching that Jesus Christ died for all without exception, believe that there are those Christ died for that will go to hell, indicating that its not the cross of Christ, His death that saves one from being lost. You are saying that it is not His death that makes the difference of who is saved or lost..

 

[YahuShuan]

You reject spiritual truth/ reality because it is not secular? Revelation is truth whether you accept it or not. God is responsible to communicate truth, so you are calling God a liar, yet fallible men you accept.

I gave him scientific proof of the virgin birth as it was predicted in Scriptures. And there was more in that proof too. When the Messiah was "brought forth" it was on a new moon during Rosh Hashanna. When He died, it was a full moon (life fully lived) and during an eclipse..."moon turned to blood". Some awesome stuff on them pages. Traceable too, for anybody like them who "need a sign". And brother are they gonna "git" one.:rotfl: More than one. Yah will prove who He is beyond anyones shadows of doubts. Even mine I'm sure. I will be happy when He does though. Not happy at what lawless ones will go through, happy to see the end of the restraint of His Words. REAL HAPPY for that when it comes!

 

[YahuShuan]

Those of you who believe the false teaching that Jesus Christ died for all without exception, believe that there are those Christ died for that will go to hell, indicating that its not the cross of Christ, His death that saves one from being lost. You are saying that it is not His death that makes the difference of who is saved or lost..

Many are called, but quite obviously, FEW CHOOSE. Research that verse deeply and that is what you will find. "Chosen" is also "CHOOSE"! And more likely the latter is the better translation. Funny thing, I was saying that long before I actually found it to be true. Praise Yah I do for things like that, He said He would answer before we called! He is proven out in the lives of those who DO believe and seek Him with all their heart mind and soul. Those who choose not to, well, not a wonder they see but have no understandings. Look up the word "IF". IN SCRIPTURES. IF you really want to know something, you have to ASK HIM, then SEEK IT OUT, and then you will "find it". You ain't done any of that. Or you would have found the truth.

 

[oatmeal]

1Jn 2:2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.

Steko,

Thanks for putting this thread to rest.

oatmeal

 

[YahuShuan]

Those of you who believe the false teaching that Jesus Christ died for all without exception, believe that there are those Christ died for that will go to hell, indicating that its not the cross of Christ, His death that saves one from being lost. You are saying that it is not His death that makes the difference of who is saved or lost..

His Death made the difference so we don't to kill a bunch of animals to satisfy a blood covenant that was never satisfied. Now because of that, we can go and ask forgiveness when we mess up, seeking not to offend again, but if we do, we have an advocate. We have that advocate at the Throne of Yah, sitting on His Right hand, the hand of judgement because He LIVES being raised from the dead. Thus a once for all propitiation for the sins of the world. But if they choose not to accept it, then it is not the Father's desire that they perish, but it is their own choice to perish because they "say we do not listen". That is the "choice" you are making. You are offered salvation, but it comes on HIS TERMS. HE IS THE CREATOR. You spitting in His Son's face ain't gonna go down to good. Same goes for them who spit in the Father's face. See, we are proud of Him, you are only proud of yourself. That's why you can't learn it at this time. And you can't save yourself. That's just a FACT.