ECT The Most Misunderstood Passage in the Bible--Romans 5:12-18

[Jerry Shugart]

Here's a detail, Adam was created from the dust and God breathed into him life. Not true of Cain. Adam created that dude. No mention of God's intervention to breath life into Cain.

You overlooked this verse which demonstrates that God breathes life into man and His Spirit makes us:

"The spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life" (Job.33:4).​

This happens at conception when one is born of the Spirit. But according to you even though the Spirit of God makes us and gives us life we are born spiritually dead!

 

[glorydaz]

What Christology? The one you know nothing about? Sound, Biblical Christology of which I speak?

Do you really think I would want to associate with what you believe? That men must be saved before they can believe. That men are too depraved to obey the Gospel by believing? That our Righteous and Holy God would select some to save and damn the rest?

Well, I certainly don't, nor will I buy into the ingredients that make such a doctrine as yours possible...which original sin does quite well. Unfortunately for you, Scripture, itself, does not support your doctrine, and the unrighteous God you claim to worship is not the God I know.

 

[Nang]

My 2nd cousin's grandchild died of brain cancer last night.
View attachment 25531

My only hope, his only hope
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John 14:6
Matthew 19:14
Acts 4:12




Colossians 2:13 Ephesians 2:1,5,6 1 Corinthians 15:13-15

Oh, so sad. I am sorry for your family' sorrow! I really am.

 

[glorydaz]

Mm hmm yea right

I guess by that you think I was lying about feeling "threatened" by what you posted? :mock: intojoy

 

[Nang]

Do you really think I would want to associate with what you believe? That men must be saved before they can believe. That men are too depraved to obey the Gospel by believing? That our Righteous and Holy God would select some to save and damn the rest?

Well, I certainly don't, nor will I buy into the ingredients that make such a doctrine as yours possible...which original sin does quite well. Unfortunately for you, Scripture, itself, does not support your doctrine, and the unrighteous God you claim to worship is not the God I know.

Original Sin is not a Calvinist/Reformed doctrine, but the teaching of Holy Scripture, known and held by faithful saints from the very beginnings.

Denial of Original Sin is heresy.

You refuse to "associate" with Godly and Scriptural Truth . . . so be it.

Thanks for revealing your unbelief and anti-Christian spirit plainly known to all on TOL.

 

[glorydaz]

Greetings my child. Are you ready now for your daily dose of sound doctrine?

Here, if Adam was spiritually alive then he died spiritually when he ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and glorydaze.

Therefore, Adam in a state of spiritual death was regenerated spiritually (born again) when he accepted God's covering.

Now, if an infant comes out of the womb spiritually alive (as Jerry says is the only logical conclusion since in order to die spiritually one has to first have been alive spiritually), how is it that Adam could have remained spiritually dead for all eternity? If he was capable of living in a state of spiritual death, what makes you think that his offspring could not be born spiritually dead as well?

One man sin and death to all! Hooray


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

My goodness, boy, you can't even be faithful to your own argument. There are more "what ifs" in that one paragraph than I've seen in many a day. You need to bear this in mind....when your premise is faulty, you end up with this very kind of mumbo-jumbo.

 

[dodge]

My 2nd cousin's grandchild died of brain cancer last night.
View attachment 25531

My only hope, his only hope
View attachment 25532
John 14:6
Matthew 19:14
Acts 4:12




Colossians 2:13 Ephesians 2:1,5,6 1 Corinthians 15:13-15

Sorry to hear about your cousins grandchild. Praying for the family.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Corruption is a progressive state. Ever watched a corpse corrupt? It ALWAYS goes from bad to worse.

When a person is corrupted his condition goes from good to bad. And once corrupted it is impossible to go from good to bad again because the condition is already bad. A person's condition can get worse but he can no longer be corrupted again.

So if a person is born corrupt then it is impossible that he can be corrupted again later. So we can know for certain that no one is born with a corrupt nature because people corrupt themselves:

"And the LORD said unto Moses, Go, get thee down; for thy people, which thou broughtest out of the land of Egypt, have corrupted themselves" (Ex.32:7).​

 

[Nang]

You overlooked this verse which demonstrates that God breathes life into man and His Spirit makes us:

"The spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life" (Job.33:4).​

This happens at conception when one is born of the Spirit. But according to you even though the Spirit of God makes us and gives us life we are born spiritually dead!

Adam was given the breath of life ... he was created a "living being."

Which is not the same as the last "Adam" being the Lord from Heaven, who alone is "a life-giving spirit."

I Corinthians 15:45

 

[glorydaz]

Original Sin is not a Calvinist/Reformed doctrine, but the teaching of Holy Scripture, known and held by faithful saints from the very beginnings.

Denial of Original Sin is heresy.

You refuse to "associate" with Godly and Scriptural Truth . . . so be it.

Thanks for revealing your unbelief and anti-Christian spirit plainly known to all on TOL.

I know, you guys bought it just like the Catholics did. Fortunately, those who read and study the word for themselves, see what you folks won't even allow yourselves to consider. That's a real shame.

 

[Nang]

When a person is corrupted his condition goes from good to bad.

There is never a good state of rot . .

And once corrupted it is impossible to go from good to bad again because the condition is already bad.

So, you contradict yourself?

A person's condition can get worse but he can no longer be corrupted again.

This is illogical and silly.

 

[Nang]

I know, you guys bought it just like the Catholics did. Fortunately, those who read and study the word for themselves, see what you folks won't even allow yourselves to consider. That's a real shame.

You are insisting on a serious heretical stance.

Man is fallen. Mankind fell through the agency of Adam. All men are born as sinners.

May God help you and protect others from your denial of this basic and foundational Truth.

 

[glorydaz]

Adam was given the breath of life ... he was created a "living being."

Which is not the same as the last "Adam" being the Lord from Heaven, who alone is "a life-giving spirit."

I Corinthians 15:45

Of course it's not the same. Read the context.

The first Adam was of the earth, earthly (returns to the dust), and the last Adam was a quickening spirit...speaking of the bodily resurrection.

 

[glorydaz]

You are insisting on a serious heretical stance.

Man is fallen. Mankind fell through the agency of Adam. All men are born as sinners.

May God help you and protect others from your denial of this basic and foundational Truth.

You may not be aware of the fact that your great proclamations aren't worth a hill of beans. :chuckle:

 

[glorydaz]

When a person is corrupted his condition goes from good to bad. And once corrupted it is impossible to go from good to bad again because the condition is already bad. A person's condition can get worse but he can no longer be corrupted again.

So if a person is born corrupt then it is impossible that he can be corrupted again later. So we can know for certain that no one is born with a corrupt nature because people corrupt themselves:

"And the LORD said unto Moses, Go, get thee down; for thy people, which thou broughtest out of the land of Egypt, have corrupted themselves" (Ex.32:7).​

Not only that, but we know exactly how they do that. They partake of the lusts of the flesh, the lust of their eyes and the pride of life. Exactly as Adam and Eve did.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Adam was given the breath of life ... he was created a "living being."

These are the words of Job and not Adam:

"The spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life" (Job.33:4).​

According to your ideas the Spirit of the LORD gave Job life but it was not a spiritual life! When the Lord Jesus said that "the Spirit gives life" (Jn.6:63) He was obviously speaking of giving Spiritual life.

Obvious to everyone but you and those like you who cling to the fable of Original Sin.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

There is never a good state of rot . .

I never said that there was. But you obvious do not understand that the word "corrupt" means going from a good state to a bad state.

This is illogical and silly.

It's common sense, something which you lack. When a person is corrupted his condition goes from good to bad. And once corrupted it is impossible to go from good to bad again because the condition is already bad. A person's condition can get worse but he can no longer be corrupted again.

So if a person is born corrupt then it is impossible that he can be corrupted again later. So we can know for certain that no one is born with a corrupt nature because people corrupt themselves:

"And the LORD said unto Moses, Go, get thee down; for thy people, which thou broughtest out of the land of Egypt, have corrupted themselves" (Ex.32:7).​

All you do in answer to these facts is to pervert the meaning of the word "corrupt."

Pitiful!

 

[Interplanner]

Why is this the MOST misunderstood passage? So that we don't look at the disciples denial of the death of Christ further?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Not only that, but we know exactly how they do that. They partake of the lusts of the flesh, the lust of their eyes and the pride of life. Exactly as Adam and Eve did.

Yes, and since the LORD is no respecter of persons (Jas.2:9) he treats all people in the same way. It was not until Adam sinned when he died spiritually and so no one else dies spiritually until they also sin. And in order to die spiritually a person must first be alive spiritually, just like Adam and Eve were before they sinned.

 

[Interplanner]

Yes, and since the LORD is no respecter of persons he treats all people in the same way. It was not until Adam died when he died spiritually and so no one else dies spiritually until they also sin. And in order to die spiritually a person must first be alive spiritually, just like Adam and Eve were before they sinned.

Jerry's quite off here. The whole race was dying. The sin of Adam was imputed to all. I don't know if Jerry does imputing/crediting/accounting, so until that is resolved, he'll call this misunderstood and won't talk any more about the disciples suppressed knowledge of Christ's death.