God's Truth
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Sounds like you agree again that we have to obey.
The Most Dangerous Teaching
- Thread starter vegascowboy
- Start date
Sounds like you agree again that we have to obey.
drbrumley
Well-known member
But youre saying you lose your salvation over it....which is false.
Ask Mr. Religion
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Sigh.
Given your No vote in the poll, it is no wonder that you would take the time to weigh in with a cheap shot following my post above:
http://theologyonline.com/poll.php?pollid=1395&do=showresults
You cannot possibly know what Jesus did for those He came and died to redeem if you do not know who He is.
AMR
There is nothing in the scripture that speaks of being obedient to be saved. We are saved by grace through faith.
turbosixx
New member
I believe there is.
2 Thes. 1:8 in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.
John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
Rom. 2:5 But because of your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath when God's righteous judgment will be revealed. 6 He will render to each one according to his works: 7 to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; 8 but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury.
What it doesn't say is all you have to do is believe.
Ask Mr. Religion
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God's Truth Ignore-A-Thon
God's Truth Ignore-A-Thon
[MENTION=12969]Sherman[/MENTION]
Every thread that catches her eye, no matter what the topic, ends up with God's Truth flooding the thread with her hobby-horse heresies. At present, she accounts for over 41% (84 posts) of this thread's 203 posts. The nearest member in this thread has but 20, many of which are attempts to shoo her away from this thread.
Are there no threads possible without GT's need to be seen and derail the discussion?
We all get it. She denies the Trinity. It has been formally debated with her. She has posted her views posted ad nauseum. She has been answered time and again. It is as if we are in some sort of Ground Hog Day dream world when she is allowed to run unabated across all the forums. With over 34,765 posts with the same basic content to her credit, it would seem she has run her horse to ground.
My Proposal for a GT Ignore-A-Thon:
AMR
God's Truth Ignore-A-Thon
[MENTION=12969]Sherman[/MENTION]
Every thread that catches her eye, no matter what the topic, ends up with God's Truth flooding the thread with her hobby-horse heresies. At present, she accounts for over 41% (84 posts) of this thread's 203 posts. The nearest member in this thread has but 20, many of which are attempts to shoo her away from this thread.
Are there no threads possible without GT's need to be seen and derail the discussion?
We all get it. She denies the Trinity. It has been formally debated with her. She has posted her views posted ad nauseum. She has been answered time and again. It is as if we are in some sort of Ground Hog Day dream world when she is allowed to run unabated across all the forums. With over 34,765 posts with the same basic content to her credit, it would seem she has run her horse to ground.
My Proposal for a GT Ignore-A-Thon:
For the next week, starting tomorrow, I will donate $10 each day to TOL for a pool to be used to fund upgrades of worthy members solely at the discretion of the TOL staff, if and only if no member responds to GT in a given day this week. I really cannot afford it at present, but am willing to actually skip a few meals if it means a day without GT being engaged and thus emboldened to continue with her one trick pony efforts. Maybe some other members will also join in for whatever amount they can manage. Think of the pool of money we could create for other members that actually bring some benefit to this site.
AMR
You have read that INTO those passages.
Fact is, He was telling them in advance the kind of Acceptance Based PERFORMANCE He expected of them.
They NOW knew what sorts of attitudes and BEHAVIOURS He expected FROM them towards one another, for His ACCEPTANCE of THEM, at His return TO THEM.
Matthew thru John are NOT Mystery Age GRACE Christianity; they are Prophesied Messianic JUDAISM.
They are THEIR LAW AND THE PROPHETS: or Moses.
John 1:40 One of the two which heard John speak, and followed him, was Andrew, Simon Peter's brother. 1:41 He first findeth his own brother Simon, and saith unto him, We have found the Messias, which is, being interpreted, the Christ.
1:45 Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.
1:47 Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him, and saith of him, Behold an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile! 1:48 Nathanael saith unto him, Whence knowest thou me? Jesus answered and said unto him, Before that Philip called thee, when thou wast under the fig tree, I saw thee.
1:49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.
1:51 And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man.
Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. 5:23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee; 5:24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.
Gift?
Altar?
Matthew 8:1 When he was come down from the mountain, great multitudes followed him. 8:2 And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean. 8:3 And Jesus put forth his hand, and touched him, saying, I will; be thou clean. And immediately his leprosy was cleansed. 8:4 And Jesus saith unto him, See thou tell no man; but go thy way, shew thyself to the priest, and offer the gift that Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them.
And so it goes throughout the narrative of those four books.
And what do we read about THOSE followers, and THEIR converts, several decades later?
Acts 21:18 And the day following Paul went in with us unto James; and all the elders were present. 21:19 And when he had saluted them, he declared particularly what things God had wrought among the Gentiles by his ministry.
21:20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law: 21:21 And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.
You see that? Two groups of BELIEVING Jews: those under the Law; and those among the Gentiles, not under the Law.
21:22 What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come. 21:23 Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them; 21:24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.
21:25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.
So it is no surprise then that James, writing to THEM...
James 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting. 1:2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations; 1:3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.
Basically repeats what the Lord had said He expected as to His PERFORMANCE BASED Acceptance of THEM...
1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.
The point being, that BACK THEN, The Israel of God AND The Body of Christ had BOTH been on this Earth.
The former (under the Law) diminishing away, as the latter (under Grace) became more and more prominent.
Which of course, raises all sorts of questions.
Including why Paul submitted to those rituals, in contrast to what he taught those Jews under his ministry...
Romans 7:1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
Romans 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
All questions easily solved for when this Two-Fold Principle is not only seen as obvious as it is in Scripture, but kept in mind, whenever one attempts to sort out all the various resulting questions...
And not only in light of Acts 17: 11, 12, but of
...
Rom. 14:5; in memory of Rom. 5: 6-8 - in each our stead.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Obeying the Gospel is believing.
Terrible translation. The word is believe in both places. check with John 3:16, and John 3:18
Don't stop there. He who SINS in the law will be judged by the law, and he who sins without the law will perish without the law. Sin will be judged no matter how moral you are or what how good your intentions.
Romans 2:12-13 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; 13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
It does if you actually read what is written, instead of cherry picking and changing what is written.
glorydaz
Well-known member
I agree, something needs to be done. She ruins every single thread. It doesn't help to just try and ignore her when she manages to badger others into responding. I've tried just putting her on ignore, but she manages to ruin the entire thread anyway. Blanks or people responding to her. I don't know what the answer is, but I'm willing to ignore her once again. :sigh:
turbosixx
New member
I agree.
There are bad translations out there but I don't see this as one of them.
This is the word used.
apeitheó: to disobey
Original Word: ἀπειθέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: apeitheó
Phonetic Spelling: (ap-i-theh'-o)
Short Definition: I disobey, rebel, am disloyal
Definition: I disobey, rebel, am disloyal, refuse conformity
Yes, the doers. To believe is to obey which means to do.
I'm more than glad to discuss context. I do my best to base my points off context of the verses I use. You pointed out I should keep going and if we do we see that it's the doers (those who obey) are justified.
When I read the bible of those who are not saved, it's based on what they did or did not do which is evidence of what they believe.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Good....obeying the Gospel is believing.
You can't be talking about the verse I was talking about....John 3:38 where you had the word "obey".
John 3:36 KJV
36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
John 3:36 YLT
36 he who is believing in the Son, hath life age-during; and he who is not believing the Son, shall not see life, but the wrath of God doth remain upon him.'
36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
John 3:36 YLT
36 he who is believing in the Son, hath life age-during; and he who is not believing the Son, shall not see life, but the wrath of God doth remain upon him.'
No, the "doers" of the LAW. That has nothing to do with believing.
Well, if that was true then an atheist who is moral would be saved. Is that what you believe?
Otherwise, what man has never sinned except the Lord Jesus Christ? Even those who follow their conscience really well, do not follow it perfectly.
Ask Mr. Religion
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Indeed. This thread, when I page through it is full of blank items where I have her ignored. Every thread where she participates devolves into dealing with GT's need for attention.
AMR
turbosixx
New member
I know we don't agree on this point but thanks for talking with me.
Sorry I didn't clarify, in Christ. No one can earn salvation that's why we have to become a Christian to access his saving blood. That is why we must obey the gospel. How can we be a follower of Christ if we do not follow?
Yes, Jn. 3:36 used the Greek word for disobey. If not, could you provide the source you have.
I agree. No one can be saved by doing the LAW. Paul is getting on to the Jews because they are trusting to be saved by the law. He shows them that with or without the law the one who sins will perish. Then he tells them that now we are justified by faith apart from the law. Although we are not under the law of Moses the basic principle of the law, love God and love you neighbor, carries over to the law of Christ. Can you love without doing any work whatsoever?
Sorry I didn't clarify, in Christ. No one can earn salvation that's why we have to become a Christian to access his saving blood. That is why we must obey the gospel. How can we be a follower of Christ if we do not follow?
glorydaz
Well-known member
Yep, And that's what this boils down to. She's an "attention whore", and will do or say anything to get it. She should just have her own little thread and be forced to stay there. That way those who actually WANT to deal with her can. The rest of us would be spared her ungodly rantings. She's worse than any Jehovah Witness come knocking on the door.
1Mind1Spirit
Literal lunatic
Didn't Vegas start a burr under the saddle thread?
Maybe you and amr should rant about it there?
If nuthin' else she's a good patience exercise.
glorydaz
Well-known member
:e4e:
I'm going by the KJV which says "believe not".
I'll appeal to my personal source. [MENTION=8445]DAN P[/MENTION] (hope this works).
I also see the same verse reading believe and believe not in John 3:16 and John 3:18.
You can't love perfectly until the Love of God is shed abroad on your heart by the Holy Spirit.
Romans 5:5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
And those who have been created IN CHRIST JESUS are ordained to do good works....not through our own efforts but as a result of our being conformed into His image.
glorydaz
Well-known member
She's more like a thorn in my side....and my foot....and my neck. A big fat three pronged thorn at that.
You're way too nice.
God's Truth
New member
What kind of salvation do you have if you are not obeying?
God's Truth
New member
He thinks Calvinism is the most dangerous, he has that right. Sigh.