The "L" in TULIP Makes Calvinism Anti-Gospel and Anti-Christ

[Lon]

I have yet to see or hear a Calvinist explain how God and Jesus made a deal with the devil so that Jesus only made a limited atonement. The "L" in TULIP is not only anti-Gospel it is anti-Christ and is pro-devil.

Your legacy on TOL, when you are dead and gone, is going to be: "He was a victim." I've taught a bit about cults, error, and heresy, but most of the time, I spend time teaching the truth at 3 to 1. IOW, I'd have 3 threads about truth, one thread addressing the problem.

Why? 1) because I don't want to glorify a cult, heresy, lie.
2) Truth corrects what is false without a lot of effort.

Robert, one's theology cannot be "I'm against Calvinism."

Your legacy is being a victim

 

[Lon]

If Jesus did not atone for ALL of the sins of the world then Jesus is not Lord and he should be removed from his position at the right hand of God as the "King of Kings and the Lord of Lords" Revelation 19:16.

Robert, when you are long gone from TOL, your legacy is going to be: "He was a victim."

When I teach cults, I spend 3 to 1 class time on truth rather than the error.
Why?
1) Knowing the truth is better than knowing the error. Isaiah 40:12 Psalm 19:7-11

2) The truth sets us free from sin and doubt John 8:36

3) We are commanded to dwell on the good Philippians 4:8

4) And importantly, overtly anti-JW preaching/teaching, for instance, glorifies JW' and Watchtower doctrine. They cannot compare or compete with God's Word, hands-down. To spend so much time teaching against them, would have me defeated and they are not worth that inordinate amount of time.

5) Teach what is true, and the errors will fall by the wayside.
Romans 12:2;21

Philippians 4:8 Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things.

 

[genuineoriginal]

In order for Open Theism to work, you have to severely limit the omniscience and sovereignty of God.

Not at all.
In fact the God of Open Theism is much more a sovereign than the God of Calvinism.
Calvinists won't accept that, because they don't understand anything about true sovereignty.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Isaiah 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

It has been said that, " So, rather than saying that God created
“moral evil,” Isaiah 45:7 is presenting a common theme of Scripture –
that God brings disaster on those who continue in hard-hearted
rebellion against Him."

Notice that, this kind of evil doesn't carry the "moral evil" meaning?
God does not cause man to commit sin, debauchery, moral evil, etc.
This would go against His character and intent. We mustn't, jump to
conclusions when it comes to such passages in the written word of God.
There are always other reasons for certain verses. We must
consider the character of God. There were times in the Old Testament
where God gave the order for every man, woman, child, and animal
in a particular area, to be killed. God obviously had His reasons for
dealing with the House of Israel in this manner, against their enemies.

These instances cannot be considered murder but, the killing of
an enemy. Big difference. At times of war, the enemy are
killed, not murdered. Ananias and Sapphira (in the New Testament)
were killed for lying to the Holy Spirit.
This wasn't/isn't considered murder.

 

[Robert Pate]

So if this "Lord" that you are talking about can impute sins that were atoned for,paid for, forgiven, wiped out and cancelled to unbelievers without any warning, how do you know that as a supposed believer that yours will not be imputed back to you? After all he can do whatever he wants right?

Only if you die outside of Christ.

My sins will not be imputed to me because... I am dead and my life is hid with Christ in God, Colossians 3:3.

 

[Robert Pate]

Your legacy on TOL, when you are dead and gone, is going to be: "He was a victim." I've taught a bit about cults, error, and heresy, but most of the time, I spend time teaching the truth at 3 to 1. IOW, I'd have 3 threads about truth, one thread addressing the problem.

Why? 1) because I don't want to glorify a cult, heresy, lie.
2) Truth corrects what is false without a lot of effort.

Robert, one's theology cannot be "I'm against Calvinism."

Your legacy is being a victim

You don't glorify cults when you refute them.

It is not possible to teach truth without refuting error.

I don't think that you have the truth.

 

[Robert Pate]

Robert, when you are long gone from TOL, your legacy is going to be: "He was a victim."

When I teach cults, I spend 3 to 1 class time on truth rather than the error.
Why?
1) Knowing the truth is better than knowing the error. Isaiah 40:12 Psalm 19:7-11

2) The truth sets us free from sin and doubt John 8:36

3) We are commanded to dwell on the good Philippians 4:8

4) And importantly, overtly anti-JW preaching/teaching, for instance, glorifies JW' and Watchtower doctrine. They cannot compare or compete with God's Word, hands-down. To spend so much time teaching against them, would have me defeated and they are not worth that inordinate amount of time.

5) Teach what is true, and the errors will fall by the wayside.
Romans 12:2;21

Philippians 4:8 Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things.

2 Timothy 4:2.

 

[Crucible]

If Open Theists had an 'L', it would be 'Limited God'.

 

[Robert Pate]

If Open Theists had an 'L', it would be 'Limited God'.

It does have an "L".

"L"ong-suffering toward us and not willing that any should perish" 2 Peter 3:9.

 

[Crucible]

It has been said that, " So, rather than saying that God created
“moral evil,” Isaiah 45:7 is presenting a common theme of Scripture –
that God brings disaster on those who continue in hard-hearted
rebellion against Him."

Notice that, this kind of evil doesn't carry the "moral evil" meaning?
God does not cause man to commit sin, debauchery, moral evil, etc.
This would go against His character and intent. We mustn't, jump to
conclusions when it comes to such passages in the written word of God.
There are always other reasons for certain verses. We must
consider the character of God. There were times in the Old Testament
where God gave the order for every man, woman, child, and animal
in a particular area, to be killed. God obviously had His reasons for
dealing with the House of Israel in this manner, against their enemies.

These instances cannot be considered murder but, the killing of
an enemy. Big difference. At times of war, the enemy are
killed, not murdered. Ananias and Sapphira (in the New Testament)
were killed for lying to the Holy Spirit.
This wasn't/isn't considered murder.

God puts the Tree of Knowledge in the Garden, with full knowledge that Satan will deceive Eve, Eve will deceive Adam, and the CURSE put onto them would commence.

He made good and create evil. Just as He formed the Light and Darkness.

It's all intrinsically together. Why do you think the verse collides a Creation statement with also creating peace and evil?

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

God puts the Tree of Knowledge in the Garden, with full knowledge that Satan will deceive Eve, Eve will deceive Adam, and the CURSE put onto them would commence.

He made good and create evil. Just as He formed the Light and Darkness.

It's all intrinsically together. Why do you think the verse collides a Creation statement with also creating peace and evil?

Eve was deceived and Adam sinned; why? Because, God created men
and women with free-will choice. God didn't force either one of them to
offend. It was ALL on them. Case closed on my end. The ball is in
your court pal.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

It does have an "L".

"L"ong-suffering toward us and not willing that any should perish" 2 Peter 3:9.

Excellent come back my friend.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

The L in Tulip, Limited Atonement is part of the Gospel. 1 Cor 15:3-4. Who is Our Sins ? Its Limited to the Chosen/Elect of God !

This conclusion comes from an extremely tiny mind.

 

[Bright Raven]

God puts the Tree of Knowledge in the Garden, with full knowledge that Satan will deceive Eve, Eve will deceive Adam, and the CURSE put onto them would commence.

He made good and create evil. Just as He formed the Light and Darkness.

It's all intrinsically together. Why do you think the verse collides a Creation statement with also creating peace and evil?

God did not create evil, He allows evil. Big difference.

http://www.gotquestions.org/did-God-create-evil.html

 

[Crucible]

Eve was deceived and Adam sinned; why? Because, God created men
and women with free-will choice. God didn't force either one of them to
offend. It was ALL on them. Case closed on my end. The ball is in
your court pal.

You're basically just ignoring a key component in Calvinism.

Here it is:

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

You're basically just ignoring a key component in Calvinism.

Here it is:

Must have been an "off day" for Calvin? Perhaps, he had a lot of executions to attend that day?

 

[Brother Ducky]

It never ceases to amaze me, how a Calvinist cannot
see one iota of free-will in the entire Bible.

Example: "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!" Matthew 23:37.

Not true. See Chapter 9 of the Westminster Confession of Faith. The issue is not whether there is free will, but what limits are inherent in the use of one's free will.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

God did not create evil, He allows evil. Big difference.

http://www.gotquestions.org/did-God-create-evil.html

Yep. These Calvinists have very thick skulls.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Not true. See Chapter 9 of the Westminster Confession of Faith. The issue is not whether there is free will, but what limits are inherent in the use of one's free will.

Is the Westminster Confession of Faith inspired by God, like
the Bible? Or, was it just a bunch of Calvinists sitting around
making things up as they sat there in their comfortable easy
chairs?

 

[Brother Ducky]

Calvin was known as, "The Pope of Geneva." He participated in
the murder executions of over fifty human beings during his
reign of terror.

Can you explain the difference between murder execution and just plain murder and just plain execution?