The "L" in TULIP Makes Calvinism Anti-Gospel and Anti-Christ

[Brother Ducky]

I have yet to see or hear a Calvinist explain how God and Jesus made a deal with the devil so that Jesus only made a limited atonement. The "L" in TULIP is not only anti-Gospel it is anti-Christ and is pro-devil.

I have never heard of anyone, Calvinist or not, make a case for the Father and/or Jesus making any sort of deal with the devil. So it is unlikely that any Calvinist would care to explain something that, as far as I can tell, is made up by you or your mentor, Brimstone.

 

[fishrovmen]

The Bible teaches an unlimited atonement, 1 John 4:14.

You should believe the Bible.

You are the one who teaches that Jesus atones for the sins of the whole world until those sins are then imputed back to people again. That makes the atonement "limited".

 

[Bright Raven]

Salvation is available to those who desire it. Christ's sacrifice atoned for the sin of the whole world, contrary to Calvinist teaching.

 

[Robert Pate]

I have never heard of anyone, Calvinist or not, make a case for the Father and/or Jesus making any sort of deal with the devil. So it is unlikely that any Calvinist would care to explain something that, as far as I can tell, is made up by you or your mentor, Brimstone.

A limited atonement means that not all sin was atoned for.

Does that mean that the devil won? Jesus was not able to atone for all sin or only atoned for some sin.

How does that work? You apparently don't have the answer. Maybe Mr religion has the answer.

 

[Robert Pate]

You are the one who teaches that Jesus atones for the sins of the whole world until those sins are then imputed back to people again. That makes the atonement "limited".

No it doesn't.

The Bible plainly teaches that Jesus has atoned for the sins of the world so that... "Whosoever that shall call on the name of the Lord can be saved" Romans 10:13.

If Jesus had not defeated sin, death and the devil no one could be saved. Salvation is now available to everyone, Hebrews 2:9.

In the judgment there will be the saved and the lost. The saved are those that are found to be "In Christ".

The lost have died in their sins because they never received the atonement so that they could be saved. Since Jesus is Lord of ALL THINGS and has power over all things he imputes their sins back to them.

 

[fishrovmen]

A limited atonement means that not all sin was atoned for.

Define "atonement".

 

[Robert Pate]

Define "atonement".

This is the best thing that you have said yet.

Look it up in the dictionary.

 

[fishrovmen]

This is the best thing that you have said yet.

Look it up in the dictionary.

I understand the dictionary definition fine. What I don't understand is how YOU define atonement.
Atonement means to make amends or reparation for a wrong done to satisfy the one who was wronged.
The biblical application of this means that atoned sins no longer have any power or ability to condemn anyone. If Jesus made full atonement for ALL sins, then when they are imputed to someone, they are still atoned for, UNLESS the atonement loses its value or they were only temporarily atoned for.
The biblical understanding of atonement is permanent, complete and final.

 

[Robert Pate]

I understand the dictionary definition fine. What I don't understand is how YOU define atonement.
Atonement means to make amends or reparation for a wrong done to satisfy the one who was wronged.
The biblical application of this means that atoned sins no longer have any power or ability to condemn anyone. If Jesus made full atonement for ALL sins, then when they are imputed to someone, they are still atoned for, UNLESS the atonement loses its value or they were only temporarily atoned for.
The biblical understanding of atonement is permanent, complete and final.

There is a general atonement in which Jesus atones for the sins of the world and reconciles the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:19.

And then there is a judgment of believers and unbelievers. In this judgment the righteousness of Christ is imputed to the saved, while the unbelievers sins are imputed to them.

 

[Brother Ducky]

A limited atonement means that not all sin was atoned for..

True. Limited by the design and for the glory of God. You hold to an atonement limited by the choice of some individuals.

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Does that mean that the devil won? Jesus was not able to atone for all sin or only atoned for some sin..

No. Not at all. Sufficient for all, efficient for the elect.

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How does that work? You apparently don't have the answer. Maybe Mr religion has the answer.

Very well, thank you. It works exactly the way God intended it to work.

 

[Brother Ducky]

There is a general atonement in which Jesus atones for the sins of the world and reconciles the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:19.

And then there is a judgment of believers and unbelievers. In this judgment the righteousness of Christ is imputed to the saved, while the unbelievers sins are imputed to them.

So the atonement is limited.

 

[Bright Raven]

So the atonement is limited.

Nooooooo! Anyone can ask for eternal life.

 

[fishrovmen]

There is a general atonement in which Jesus atones for the sins of the world and reconciles the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:19.

And then there is a judgment of believers and unbelievers. In this judgment the righteousness of Christ is imputed to the saved, while the unbelievers sins are imputed to them.

So when Jesus atoned for the sins of the world in your so-called "general atonement"...how does the Father view them? Are they paid in full or does someone owe something yet to complete the payment?

 

[Robert Pate]

So when Jesus atoned for the sins of the world in your so-called "general atonement"...how does the Father view them? Are they paid in full or does someone owe something yet to complete the payment?

Nothing is resolved until after the judgment.

In the judgment all wrongs will be made right and all rights will be rewarded, Romans 11:33.

 

[fishrovmen]

Nothing is resolved until after the judgment.

In the judgment all wrongs will be made right and all rights will be rewarded, Romans 11:33.

So are you saying that Jesus just hides those sins from the Father so that there can be peace with the world?

 

[Robert Pate]

So are you saying that Jesus just hides those sins from the Father so that there can be peace with the world?

You have a lot of strange ideas about God.

When God accepted Jesus into heaven God accepted all of humanity in him. He is the savior of the whole world, 1 John 4:14. God now sees ALL THINGS in his Son Jesus Christ. As far as God is concerned Jesus has reconciled the whole world unto him, 2 Corinthians 5:19.

But that does not resolve the problem of unbelievers. There will be a judgment.

Jesus is Lord over ALL THINGS, even sin.

 

[fishrovmen]

You have a lot of strange ideas about God.

When God accepted Jesus into heaven God accepted all of humanity in him. He is the savior of the whole world, 1 John 4:14. God now sees ALL THINGS in his Son Jesus Christ. As far as God is concerned Jesus has reconciled the whole world unto him, 2 Corinthians 5:19.

But that does not resolve the problem of unbelievers. There will be a judgment.

Jesus is Lord over ALL THINGS, even sin.

How did Jesus reconcile the whole world to God? Tell me specifically what Jesus did with those sins.

 

[Robert Pate]

How did Jesus reconcile the whole world to God? Tell me specifically what Jesus did with those sins.

Jesus as our representative and substitute, atoned for our sins and the sins of the whole world, 1 John 4:14. When Jesus entered into heaven he reconciled the whole world unto God.

Sin is not a material thing, sin is spiritual. Jesus didn't have to do anything with sin but to atone for it.

 

[fishrovmen]

Jesus as our representative and substitute, atoned for our sins and the sins of the whole world, 1 John 4:14. When Jesus entered into heaven he reconciled the whole world unto God.

Sin is not a material thing, sin is spiritual. Jesus didn't have to do anything with sin but to atone for it.

So Jesus substituted His blood to pay in full the debt of our spiritual sin and therefore closed out our spiritual account?

 

[Robert Pate]

So Jesus substituted His blood to pay in full the debt of our spiritual sin and therefore closed out our spiritual account?

I don't have the slightest idea of what you mean by "Jesus substituted his blood". There is nothing in the Bible about Jesus substituting his blood.