The Heretics Message to the World:Be Baptized to be Saved! (HOF thread)

[Kevin]

Agape,

LOL!!! Notice the intelligent response? It's so simple to understand

Heh... anybody with the absolute basics of intelligence would realize that to confess with the mouth involves an action. C'mon Agape, stand in front of the mirror and confess Christ with your mouth without using your mouth.

You mind the Word of God cause it's God's Word that's calling you a liar.

Wrong. You have yet to prove your case. You just keep chanting your broken record without addressing my points.

What a joke. If you agree that we are not saved by works, then we would not be having this "so-called" discussion in the first place.

Wrong again. If you would read, comprehend, and answer my points and questions, we wouldn't be having this "so called" discussion.

Go back and answer my points if you are going to continue to ride the merry go round which you said you weren't. Make up your mind.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hey...thanks for reminding me. TA TA

Do you really mean it this time, or will your short term memory strike again?

Remember I said he is your master

He's not my master, he's my friend. Although, he is full of knowledge and wisdom, and I certainly have great respect for him. But that doesn't make him my master.

c.moore, don't bother giving him scripture over and over again...he can't read

I can read just fine.

 

[Kevin]

Outstanding!

Outstanding!

Hey, Kevin - here's another interesting thing. You remember that HopeOfGlory has claimed that the remission of sins by the shed blood of Jesus was not taught before the conversion of the apostle Paul? And you remember that I had pointed to the Last Supper as proof that it was? And you remember that HopeOfGlory had claimed that the apostles would not have understood the symbolism of the bread and wine? (Which in turn implies that Jesus never explained it...)

Well, how about we read our Bibles, eh...?



Matthew 26:26-28.
And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.
And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;
For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.


Doesn't get much simpler than this, does it??!

I don't remember you pointing this out to HopeofGlory, but after reading this post, that's an excellent point! You're right, it doesn't get much plainer than that! Excellent point indeed. That completely destroys his unscriptual theory that the blood of Christ was not preached until after Paul supposedly got his new revelation from God. Great work, Evangelion! :up:

 

[AVmetro]

Kevin...

Kevin...

Wow, you sound like a very mature Christian. Is that the best you can do?

Pot. Kettle. Black. Even though I'm in no wise innocent of the same.....just thought I'd point it out...

 

[agape]

Originally posted by Kevin
Agape,
He's not my master, he's my friend. Although, he is full of knowledge and wisdom, and I certainly have great respect for that. But that doesn't make him my master.

In all honesty, Kevin, I really don't care what you think about Evangelion. All I care about is the truth of God's Word, which obviously both you and him have no regard for, especially when you turn the grace of God into works for salvation. You are both calling God a liar. Birds of the same feather flock together...need I say more.

Sheesh.....

 

[agape]

Originally posted by Kevin

I can read just fine.

You only read what you want the Word to say...never what it truly says.

 

[Kevin]

AVmetro,

Pot. Kettle. Black. Even though I'm in no wise innocent of the same.....just thought I'd point it out...

I had already edited that out before you posted that. I'm know that I'm far from perfect myself.

 

[Kevin]

Agape,

You only read what you want the Word to say...never what it truly says.

Heh. I preach what I read. It is you who tries to make the word say what you want it to say. The confessing with the mouth issue is a perfect example. You're trying to convince me that to "confess with the mouth" means to do it inwardly... which does not even involve the mouth.

Have you tried standing in the mirror and putting your logic to use? Try it. Confess Jesus "with the mouth" without using the mouth.

 

[agape]

Originally posted by Kevin
Agape,

Heh. I preach what I read. It is you who tries to make the word say what you want it to say. The confessing with the mouth issue is a perfect example. You're trying to convince me that to "confess with the mouth" means to do it inwardly... which does not even involve the mouth.

But you preach wrong because you read into the Word wrong. You read it with your pre-conceived erroneous beliefs.

Not getting into the merry-go-round "mouth issue." Such a short-term memory you got there.

NOT OF WORKS...lest Kevin should boast.

Ta Ta....

 

[c.moore]

Agape you said to kevin:

You only read what you want the Word to say...never what it truly says.

Quote c.moore:
Kevin also understand what he is able to understand in the flesh after reading what must be spiritual discerned.

1Co:2:10: But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
1Co:2:11: For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
1Co:2:12: Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
1Co:2:13: Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
1Co:2:14: But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Ro:12:3: For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

Ho:4:6: My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.

You are right about not giving Kevin scripture againlike a broken record, but maybe this might be the time he might want to change to the truth, and I don`t what to be resposisble for not being obedient to help my weakier brother in the faith.
Agape, we have to still see kevin as A brother in the Lord , and in Hosea says (MY people ) meaning God is talking about people who are his children,like Kevin , Justin, and EV.
Some are still drinking from the milk bottle, and some eating meat, and we need to still help the babies grow in the truth one way or another, but if they don`t accept , after a while we have to leave them alone, and they will pay the consequence,all we can is our part to just téll the true ,but I never seen in the bible convince them of the truth ,or debate them of the truth , and force them of the truth.
I will give my last try to tell Kevin the truth either he take it and grow , or stay in rebellion of his own doctrines.

I know you get my point.

God bless you, and keep telling the good and simple good news of the gospel, jesus has your reward waiting for you ,let no one or doctrine fool you into losinyour rewards.

praise God for you.

 

[JustAChristian]

Your Calling Jesus A LiaR, NOT ME!!

Your Calling Jesus A LiaR, NOT ME!!

Originally posted by Agape...

Can you read this? Acts 1:5: For John truly baptized with water; BUT ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

You are calling Jesus a liar.

Way to go JAC...way to go....

Agape,

So, you think you are a part of the "ye" of Acts 1:5? Funny that the Samaratians that Philip preached to didn't think they were a part of the crowd in "ye" of Acts 1:5. Especially when Peter and John came down to Samaria, they still were not moved to tell them that they had been Holy Spirit baptized. You see, Holy Spirit baptism was always accompanied with signs manifested by the Spirit. The Samarians were not able to produce any signs until the apostles laid hands on them! (Acts 8:17-18). And since Philip couldn't transfer the gift to the Eunuch he could not produce signs but went on his way rejoicing (Acts 8:39).

No, Agape... I have it straight from the text. It is not me calling Jesus a liar! He said if I will believe the gospel and follow through with having my sins spiritually washed away in baptism, I will be forgiven of sins. By the grace of God I would then be a candidate of salvation. And, If I walk in the light as He is in the light, the blood that first cleansed me in baptism will continue to cleanse me from all unrighteousness. Agape, you really need to look closer on this. Why don't you take the day off and go fishing and relay. Meditate on the will of Christ for your salvation. You need a good "spiritual" break today!

JustAChristian

 

[c.moore]

Hello Kevin

here is your answers and bible scriptures.


quote: c.moore
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, there is three stages,but the stages are done in the real thing and in the kingdom of God .
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
M't:25:34: Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:




Scripture, please.

John 14:17 Jesus spoke of "the Spirit of truth… but you know Him, for He dwells WITH you and WILL BE IN YOU."

Water from the baptism pool can not dwell in you , but the spirit can.

in John 15:26, "But when the Helper comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify of Me."

The scripture says nothing about water of truth.

Jesus said to them, "John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now." What happened on Pentecost in chapter 2 was much more than just the filling of the Spirit, it was spiritual baptism. Peter confirmed this before the Jerusalem counsel (Acts 11:15-18).

Act 1:8"But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth."

The verse doesn`t say you have power when you baptized in water.
1Co:4:20: For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The spiritual baptism is the real baptism which you don`t have to represent or give an example like water baptism because this is the baptism that count for God
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Scripture, please.

Joh:3:3: Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Look this birth is spiritual,in order A person can enter into the kingdom of God which is for all real christians the important, and main birth.
But water baptism people believe the water is the main birth to be born again.

Ga:3:26: For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Ga:3:27: For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The water baptism is not the certain kind, it is a discription of the real thing, and water baptism is as the spiritual baptism, and water baptism is a sample of the spiritual baptism, and the water baptism is a symbol for the spiritual baptism.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Scripture, please.


Ga:2:20: I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you use the word represent Kevin , then you know that the water baptism being represent can`t be the thing that baptize us for the kingdom of God, and for Our Spiritual God.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Quote by kevin
How can one be in the grace of God without first putting the old man of sin away and being born again in Christ?


quote by c.moore
Joh:3:18: He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Joh:3:6: That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Joh:3:7: Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Ti:3:5: Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

peace

 

[Apollos]

"...the washing of regeneration..."

"...the washing of regeneration..."

To all non-believers in the only baptism authorized in the NT – in WATER.

Jesus authorized HIS baptism for all nations in Matthew 28:18f. This baptism (“in His name”) is in water – Acts 10:47 and that this baptism is for remission of sins – Acts 2:38. It is the one baptism authorized and practiced in the NT.

When Jesus said that a man must be “born again” in John 3:3f He said that it includes WATER and the Spirit. TWO agents are required. Paul concurs in Ephesians 5:26,cf. Titus 3:5). HS baptism does not meet these two requirements. It takes water and the Spirit for a “new birth” !!

HS baptism is NEVER said to be FOR the remission of sins in the NT. No one is ever told to baptize another in the HS and HS baptism is NEVER administered as Jesus told His disciples to baptize all nations in Matthew 28.

HS baptism was the result of a promise to the apostles –Luke 24:49, Acts 1:4 and a fulfillment of prophesy – Acts 2:17 – “all flesh” meaning Jew & Gentile. Only –2- examples of HS baptism are found in the NT - in Acts 2 and 10.
Acts 11:15-16 clearly shows that HS baptism was an exception to events taking place in NT times. The second event took Peter back to the first event.

Acts 8 and 19 show that the APOSTLES (and only the apostles) were able to “give” the HS (not the baptism) and spiritual gifts (not salvation) was the result. Even Simon could see that “by the laying on of the apostles hands the HS was given”. Not even the wreckless HS baptism today gang will clamour that “laying on of hands” is equal to HS baptism – less they concede that it is by the hands of men that HS baptism is accomplished. That which was sent by God in Acts 2 & 10 cannot be compared to what the apostles gave by laying their hands on someone to impart spiritual gifts.

Water baptism is the means that God chose by which man appropriates the salvation offered by His grace. It will accomplish just exactly what God chose it to do – it will “wash away” your sins! This humble act of submission is ridiculed and hoo-hahed by the self-appointed religious elitists who refuse to see the “significance” in obeying God’s commands. Yet if one looks at how God did many things in the past, such as Naaman, or the blind man of John 9, we can see that water played a role in the receiving the gifts of Gods through the means God selected.

(No, it was never the efficacy of water. It was the “answer” of a good conscience in obeying what God commanded. The blessing was received WHEN the intended recipient obeyed!!)

God chose this simple means of immersion in water for appropriation of His blessing, but through years of uninformed, biased, and false teaching about “works”, and the associated prejudice with “grace” and doing the commands of God, many are blinded and will not follow the simplest command of God to obtain their salvation. They instead ignore or neglect water baptism all together and they chose for themselves a “higher calling” of pretensious HS baptism, because in this they can satisfy their aesthetic sensibilities with something more than just getting “dunked” in the water.

But such “dunking” is the means selected by God and this is revealed by the HS as necessary for one to be “sanctified” in Christ – Ephesians 5:26. This sanctification take both WATER and the WORD!! (Yes, once again TWO agents!) When one complies with the revelation of the HS, to be immersed in water to have their sins “washed away”, salvation is then accomplished “by” the Spirit. For “by” one Spirit we are all baptized into the one body. The Spirit has shown in the word that this is to be WATER baptism! Few are following the directions of the HS in regard to baptism!

(The sad fact is that the uninformed and biased have not realized that HS baptism is not now and never was for the purpose of salvation.)

“He that believes and is baptized shall be saved.”- Jesus

Give Jesus’ statement more than a few moments to soak in !!

 

[Evangelion]

BTW - thanks for the compliments, Kevin. :up:

I think the Last Supper deserves more attention than it usually receives from Dispys.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Apollos,

You never did tell us which "works" are necessary for salvation.Remember,these"works" must be of a type that no one can boast about them.

So please tell us which "works" are necessary for salvation,and please no leave out any of them.

If you will answer this,I will show you where your interpretation of the meaning of the Lord´s words concerning being born "of water and of the Spirit" is in error.

So come on now,Apollos,which "works" are necessary for obtaining EVERLASTING SALVATION?

In His grace,--Jerry

 

[Evangelion]

Jerry - the answer is simple - obedience to God's commandments.

Don't you ever read the New Testament? And would you care to tell me how we can be saved without obedience?

 

[Apollos]

We must work the works of God...

We must work the works of God...

Hey Jerry –

It was in the "works" (lol).......

What I am saying is man MUST do something to appropriate the gift of salvation from God. It is impossible to obtain anything, even if it is “free”, without some action on the part of the receiver. What Calvinists believe is the exception to this.

The “gift” of salvation is offered to all men (Titus 2:11). But we know all men will NOT be saved (Matt. 7:14). Then WHY are some saved and others are not??
The is answer is: What some men DO sanctifies them from the others !!
(If you disagree, tell me WHY!)

Man must do something, and those things are the “works” of God – John 6:28,29, cf. 9:4. These “works” are NOT:

Works of merit – that would allow one to say the EARNED salvation.
Works of boasting – that would allow one to brag about what they accomplished.
Works of the O.T. – these works fall into the categories above.

Perhaps this question all depends on how you “look” at, or classify “works”…

Water baptism is an excellent example of “works”. Who would, who could brag about being “dunked” in water? Who would dare say they earned salvation by a humble immersion in water?? Who would brag about such an act??

Whether it was a small stone bringing a Goliath to his knees, marching around a wall and blowing on horns to tumble a mighty Jericho wall fortress, or an arrogant Naaman washing in the Jordan river, it took OBEDIENCE to appropriate the “gift” that God offered. No obedience – no gift!.

Did they EARN it? NO! Could they brag about their actions? NO! All they could say is that they OBEYED what God said to do and they received His “blessing” – because these “works” are what God chose for them to DO !!

Romans 4:4f notwithstanding, this talks of “works” that one would peform in an attempt to EARN righteousness before God. The words here are those that describe what a hired hand receives for his wages. This TYPE of work will not be reckoned of grace because a debt is created, and must be paid to, the worker for what he has performed. Paul is saying is that you can’t earn your reward from God. Paul is not saying that there is nothing for man to do to appropriate the reward from God.

Therefore it is the TYPE of work performed – of merit or boasting – that must be distinguishd from the works one must accomplish in order to receive God’s blessing.

Grace is God’s part in salvation – faith is man’s part. Man has a PART to fulfill . Again I say, all that we should be arguing is how much or what must be accomplished by man to appropriate that “free” gift of God. Even a “free” gift must be received. What must a man do to “receive” the gift offered?

I won a televison once. I filled out a slip of paper with my name and phone # and put it into a box. The business called me and told me I had “won” the TV – it was a “free” gift. I drove down to the business, placed the TV on a cart, wheeled it out to my car, loaded into the car, and drove away. Was it “free”?? YES it was. Did I have to do something to appropriate it? Yes I did !! Could I brag I deserved it or say that I had earned it? NO!

Yes, man MUST DO SOMETHING to appropriate the “free” salvation of God. Believe the gospel, repent of your sins, confess Christ as the Son of God, and then be baptized in water for the remission of your sins. The examples of conversion in the book of Acts will bear this out.

Water baptism is the means chosen by God through which man appropriates the salvation God offers by His grace.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Apollos,

You say that in order to appropriate the "free" salvation of God,we must be baptized in water.And you are under the illusion that the examples of "conversion" in the book of Acts backs this up.

But let us examine the conversation of the Philippian jailer.He asked what he must do to be saved.Here is the narrative in Acts as to Paul´s response and the events that followed:

"Sirs,what must I do to be saved?

"And they said,Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ,and thou shalt be saved,and thy house.

"And they spoke unto him the WORD OF THE LORD,and to all that were in his house.

"And he took them the same hour of the night,and washed their stripes,and was baptized,he and all his,straightaway"(Acts16:30-33).

Here we see that in answer Paul did not say,"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ AND BE BAPTIZED"!

He simply said,"Believe on the Lord Jesus".

And by the narrative we can see that they were not even baptized with water until after they heard and believed the gospel and then their "stripes" were washed.

Next,we see that Peter was sent to Cornelius and his household to speak the WORDS by which Cornelius and all his household "shall be saved"(Acts11:14).

"While Peter yet spoke these WORDS,the Holy Spirit fell on all them who heard the word"(Acts10:44).

So we can see that they believed the word and immediately they were saved--and all this before a drop of water touched them.

So it is obvious that these people did not "apropriate" salvation by submitting to a rite of water baptism,because Scripture reveals that they were saved before they were ever baptized with water.

Scripture also says that the sinner is "justified freely by His grace"(Ro.3:24).The word "freely" is translated from the Greek word "doorean",meaning "without merit,without cause".

If we must submit to a rite of water baptism,then the Lord would in fact have a "cause" to justify us.That would be because we obeyed His command to be baptized with water.

But Scripture declares that we are "justified without cause".

Next,Apollos,I asked you for a list of all the "works" that are needed for EVERLASTING SALVATION.

Are the "works" you listed all the"works" needed for "everlasting salvation",or they only the works needed for "conversion"?

Would you give me all the works needed to obtain "everlasting salvation"?And remember,by your own words these "works" could not be of a type that man could boast about.

In His grace,--Jerry

 

[JustAChristian]

Why The Essentiality Of Immersion...

When one reads the Bible, it is imperative to place context in order; to consider time and events in sequence. I teach we aught to rightly divide the scriptures. This is what I mean by “rightly dividing the word of truth.” Placing item in proper order and theme.

Paul told the church at Rome in his epistle that “For whatsoever things were written afore time were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope” (Roman 15:4). The things that were written afore time,The Old Testament, and it's authority was “nailed to the cross at the death of Christ. Paul tell us of Christ death being capable of “blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross” (Col. 2:14). Now I take this all to mean that there are limited benefits of the Law of Moses for me today. These consist in part of learning about Christ and how the people were required to conduct their religious and moral life, but that I am not bound to keep that Law (of Moses). It was taken out of the way by the New Testament or Law of Christ (Gal. 6:2).. How do I know this? Well, Jesus fulfilled the Law in His death. Paul told the Corinthian church in his second epistle, of Christ...“Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth [offered no salvation], but the spirit giveth life[offers salvation]”(2 Co4.3:6).

Before His death, Jesus Christ forgave the sins of many people (Luke 5:20; 7:48). He did this because He is God (eloiym; Strong’s Hebrew number 430); John 1:1). Jesus was even merciful to the “thief on the cross” and said “today thou shalt be with me in Paradise. We generally take that to mean that Jesus saved him at that time. The point of whether he was baptized or not is moot point. If and when I should said that the “malefactor” may have been baptized before, I am coming from the area of possibility. Whether or not he was, Jesus was able to forgive his sin or save him or cause him not to die or whatever He chose to do—up until the time of Christ’s death. After the death of Jesus on the cross, the Law [the Perfect Law of Liberty, the Gospel (James 1:25; Rom. 1:16) that He delivered to His apostles came into action. The Old Law of Moses was no longer valid. It then became only an instrument of information ( Rom. 15:4).. After Christ’s resurrection, He commissioned His apostles to go into the whole world and preach the gospel (the New Testament) of salvation (Romans 1:16) because it was the way that God would now deal with mankind. Jesus had previously said, “He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day” (Jn. 12:48). Jesus could not judge the people by His law while the Old Testament was in effect, and this is why He referenced the Old Law when making judgments before His death (Mt. 4:4-10; 21:13 etc.).

There was no forgiveness of sin ascribed to the Law of Moses as I mentioned before (2 Cor. 3:6), but when Jesus’ authority came into reality, His Law offered salvation through obedience to its commands (Hebrews 5:8-9). If a man could have kept the Old Testament Law without breaking a single commandment, he could not be condemned, but no one other that Christ ever kept it perfectly. Since no one has ever been found to be sinless ( Rom. 6:23), we need to have the “grace, mercy and blood” of Christ in our behalf. How do we obtain this? Well, how did those Jews on Pentecost at the preaching of Peter obtain it? How did Samaritan and Simon, at the preaching of Philip in Acts 8 obtain it? How did the Ephesian disciples of Apollos obtain it? How did the Ethiopian Eunuch of Acts 8, and all the rest of the convert of the New Testament obtain it? When they obeyed the commands of the New Testament (Mark 16:15-16; Heb. 5:8-9). Peter told the church concerning their souls saying, “...Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently, being born again, not of corruptible seed , but of incorruptible, by the word of God which liveth and abideth forever” (1 Peter 1:22-23). The Holy Spirit then is given to the ones that are baptized as a “token or surety of their salvation (Eph 1:13-14; Acts 2:38; Rom. 8:9). We have a covenant to guide us into all truth for it is more glorious (2 Cor. 3:11).

Baptism was never a part of the Law of Moses. When John came preaching in the wilderness, his unique manner of preaching and baptizing was never seen before by the Pharisees and Sadducees, and they asked him why he baptized (Jn 1:26). He did so to prepare the people for the coming of Christ (Mark 1:4). The potential of all in and about Jerusalem were baptized by John except the Pharisees ( Luke 7:28.29). It had its purpose: “for the remission of sins” (Mark 1:4), but it was not valid after Christ died and commissioned His apostles to “go into all the world and preach ;the gospel. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved...”(Acts 19:1-2; Mark 16:15-16). Jesus did not commission the apostle to Holy Spirit baptize but to baptize in water for the remission of sins. (Acts 2:38; Acts 8:36; Acts 10:47-49; 1 Peter 3:21). If you are looking for salvation through Holy Spirit baptism you will never find it. The scriptures are totally silent on such purpose for the Godhead member.

JustAChristian

 

[Evangelion]

Jerry, can we be saved without obedience?

 

[agape]

Re: Your Calling Jesus A LiaR, NOT ME!!

Re: Your Calling Jesus A LiaR, NOT ME!!

Originally posted by JustAChristian
Agape,

So, you think you are a part of the "ye" of Acts 1:5?

I KNOW I am a part of the "Ye" of Acts 1:5.

Acts 8:14ff:
And when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received [dechomai] the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John.

The failure of the Samaritan believers to receive holy spirit into manifestations and speak in tongues, as every born-again believer since Pentecost had done, brought a response and concern from the leadership. Philip needed help. The people of Samaria received deliverance in many categories yet had not believed sufficiently to speak in tongues, to manifest holy spirit. It was a spiritual problem since Simon had betwitched them for so many years (Acts 8:11). This was the first time, as recorded, that this kind of problem had arose in the first century. Peter and John prayed to God about it and God worked in them to remedy the situation. The Apostles laid their hands on them and prayed for them that they should manifest the holy spirit in them.

(15) Who [Peter and John], when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might received [lambano - into manifestation] the Holy Ghost [the gift of holy spirit into manifestations]:

(16) For as ye he [it] was fallen [into manifestation] upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus [born again].

(17) Then laid they their hands on them, and they received [lambano] the Holy Ghost [the gift into manifestation].

The people of Samaria spoke in tongues the wonderful works of God.

(18) And when Simon saw that through the laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost [the gift in manifestation] was given, he offered them money.

Simon saw the results of what occurred when the Samaritans spoke in tongues. He saw the power of God at work and offered them money for it.

And since Philip couldn't transfer the gift to the Eunuch he could not produce signs but went on his way rejoicing (Acts 8:39).

Is this what verse 39 is saying? NO! AGAIN PI, making it say what it DOES NOT SAY. It DOES NOT SAY Philip could not transfer the gift to the eunuch and that he could not produce signs and so he went on his merry way. You are LYING.

Acts 8:35:
Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached [taught well] unto him Jesus.

Here is Philip reaching and preaching to a eunuch, one man, who was hungering and thirsting after righteousness. Philip began to make known to him Jesus, the humiliated and sanctified one. Philip had shown the eunuch Jesus Christ, the Son of God, from the scriptures, bringing him to the new birth. When Philip was done, the eunuch went on his way "rejoicing." What do you think he was REJOICING about? He knew he was saved, born again and had eternal life! Don't you think that's something worth rejoicing about?

No, Agape... I have it straight from the text.

No you do not have it straight at all...it's all crooked, out of context.

It is not me calling Jesus a liar! He said if I will believe the gospel and follow through with having my sins spiritually washed away in baptism, I will be forgiven of sins.

God's Word teaches us that if we When we believe that Jesus Christ died for the remission of sin and arose from the dead at that moment we are immediately baptized in the holy spirit and we are saved, born again and have eternal life. For we are SAVED BY GRACE, NOT OF WORKS, lest any man should boast. If you do not believe this and believe you must also do works for salvation you are calling both GOD and JESUS CHRIST, LIARS.

You're the one who needs a lot of rest in order to clear the cob webs from your brain so you can start seeing more clearly what the Scriptures are truly saying.