Evangelion
New member
Why was everyone told to be baptised at Pentecost, Jerry?
The Heretics Message to the World:Be Baptized to be Saved! (HOF thread)
- Thread starter Freak
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Evangelion
New member
Oh, and for that matter, why was Cornelius baptised, along with his household?
And why did John the Baptist baptise people? And why did the apostle Paul baptise people? And why did Christ command his disciples to baptise people?
I mean, I could go on...
And why did John the Baptist baptise people? And why did the apostle Paul baptise people? And why did Christ command his disciples to baptise people?
I mean, I could go on...
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Evangelion,
We are indeed "justified by faith".
But Scripture also states that we are also justified by grace and justified by blood (the blood of the Lord Jesus).
Death is the judical ground of righteousness--we are "justified by blood"(Ro.5:9).
Grace is the principle on which God acts in reckoning a sinner righteous--we are "justified freely by His grace"(Ro.3:24).
And it on the principle of faith,as opposed to works (such as submitting to a rite of water baptism) or merit,that the sinner receives the blessing of justification--we are "justified by faith"(Ro.5:1).
In His grace,--Jerry
We are indeed "justified by faith".
But Scripture also states that we are also justified by grace and justified by blood (the blood of the Lord Jesus).
Death is the judical ground of righteousness--we are "justified by blood"(Ro.5:9).
Grace is the principle on which God acts in reckoning a sinner righteous--we are "justified freely by His grace"(Ro.3:24).
And it on the principle of faith,as opposed to works (such as submitting to a rite of water baptism) or merit,that the sinner receives the blessing of justification--we are "justified by faith"(Ro.5:1).
In His grace,--Jerry
Evangelion
New member
Firstly, we are justified by faith and works, and saved by grace.
Secondly, you haven't proved that baptism is a "work" yet.
Thirdly, if baptism is a "work", then why was everyone so keen to do it, and why did Jesus command it?
Secondly, you haven't proved that baptism is a "work" yet.
Thirdly, if baptism is a "work", then why was everyone so keen to do it, and why did Jesus command it?
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Evangelion,
I will ask you why the Israelite brought an offering to be sacrificed when he had sinned:
"And the priest shall make an atonement for him with the ram of the trespass offering before the Lord for the sin which he had done:and the sin which he had done shall be forgiven him"(Lev.19:22).
Was it the blood of the bull that saved the Israelite that brought the sin offering?
"For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats should take away sins"(Heb.10:4).
No,it was not the blood of the bull that his sins were forgiven him.His sins were forgiven him because of his "faith".
And during the time when there were "two" baptisms,the sinner was told to submit to the rite of water baptism in order to receive the forgiveness of sins.But again,it was not the water that brought about the remission of their sins,but instead it was the "faith" of the one that submitted to the rite.
In this day when we are explicitly told that there is but "one" baptism(Eph.4:5),it is sad to see some men cling to that water baptism to the exclusion of the "spirit" baptism,especially considering the fact that Scripture states so clearly that in the present dispensation it is "by one Spirit are we all BAPTIZED into ...the Body of Christ"(1Cor.12:13).
The Spirit Baptism is the "one" baptism of Eph.4:5.
In His grace,--Jerry
I will ask you why the Israelite brought an offering to be sacrificed when he had sinned:
"And the priest shall make an atonement for him with the ram of the trespass offering before the Lord for the sin which he had done:and the sin which he had done shall be forgiven him"(Lev.19:22).
Was it the blood of the bull that saved the Israelite that brought the sin offering?
"For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats should take away sins"(Heb.10:4).
No,it was not the blood of the bull that his sins were forgiven him.His sins were forgiven him because of his "faith".
And during the time when there were "two" baptisms,the sinner was told to submit to the rite of water baptism in order to receive the forgiveness of sins.But again,it was not the water that brought about the remission of their sins,but instead it was the "faith" of the one that submitted to the rite.
In this day when we are explicitly told that there is but "one" baptism(Eph.4:5),it is sad to see some men cling to that water baptism to the exclusion of the "spirit" baptism,especially considering the fact that Scripture states so clearly that in the present dispensation it is "by one Spirit are we all BAPTIZED into ...the Body of Christ"(1Cor.12:13).
The Spirit Baptism is the "one" baptism of Eph.4:5.
In His grace,--Jerry
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Evangelion,
"Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace but of debt"(Ro.4:4).
If the requirement for salvation at the present time is to "believe" and "submit to the rite of water baptism",and the sinner then did believe and then did submit to the rite,then at that time God would be in "debt" to save that sinner.However,Scripture states that salvation is NOT a matter of "debt" but instead it is a matter of "grace":
"Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace,but of debt"(Ro.4:4).
"Now we have received,not the spirit of the world,but the Spirit Who is of God;that we might know the things that are FREELY given to us of God"(1Cor.2:12).
"The gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ,our Lord"(Ro.6:23).
In His grace,--Jerry
"Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace but of debt"(Ro.4:4).
If the requirement for salvation at the present time is to "believe" and "submit to the rite of water baptism",and the sinner then did believe and then did submit to the rite,then at that time God would be in "debt" to save that sinner.However,Scripture states that salvation is NOT a matter of "debt" but instead it is a matter of "grace":
"Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace,but of debt"(Ro.4:4).
"Now we have received,not the spirit of the world,but the Spirit Who is of God;that we might know the things that are FREELY given to us of God"(1Cor.2:12).
"The gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ,our Lord"(Ro.6:23).
In His grace,--Jerry
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Evangelion,
You say that if "baptism" is a "work",why did Jesus command it.
Well,there can be no doubt that bringing offerings for sacrifice was a "work",but God commanded it,did He not?
Perhaps the Lord Jesus commanded that the Israelite submit to the rite of water baptism so that prophecy might be fulfilled:
"I will also save you from all your uncleannesses...in that day that I shall have cleansed you from all your iniquities..."(Ez.36:29,33).
In His grace,--Jerry
You say that if "baptism" is a "work",why did Jesus command it.
Well,there can be no doubt that bringing offerings for sacrifice was a "work",but God commanded it,did He not?
Perhaps the Lord Jesus commanded that the Israelite submit to the rite of water baptism so that prophecy might be fulfilled:
"I will also save you from all your uncleannesses...in that day that I shall have cleansed you from all your iniquities..."(Ez.36:29,33).
In His grace,--Jerry
Evangelion
New member
Ummm... first you say that baptism is a work which we shouldn't be doing for the purpose of achieving salvation, then you agree that Jesus commanded it.
Here's a hint, Jerry - the Law of Moses was fulfilled, and that is why we are no longer required to keep it. Additionally, the Law of Moses cannot save - unlike the new law of liberty in Christ.
What you have to learn, Jerry, is that Scripture cannot be understood if you simply concentrate on one passage without acknowledging the others.
Observe:
Here's a hint, Jerry - the Law of Moses was fulfilled, and that is why we are no longer required to keep it. Additionally, the Law of Moses cannot save - unlike the new law of liberty in Christ.
What you have to learn, Jerry, is that Scripture cannot be understood if you simply concentrate on one passage without acknowledging the others.
Observe:
- Paul says that we are not saved by the works of the Law of Moses. He also says that we are saved by grace.
- James says we are justified by faith and works.
- Peter says we are saved by baptism.
elected4ever
New member
I have read o2bewise's remarkes in this thread and find nothing to warrent the cridicism leveled against him on this subject. I think you owe an apology to o2 Freak. You are arguing for arguements sake. This is not good for you or this forrum.
Evangelion
New member
C'mon now, Dan - Freak's fulminations at T.O.L. are probably the highlight of his week!
I'm willing to bet that Mrs Freak actively encourages him to sit in his study and debate online all day. I know I would, if I was in her shoes...
I'm willing to bet that Mrs Freak actively encourages him to sit in his study and debate online all day. I know I would, if I was in her shoes...
JustAChristian
New member
Re: Re: Word Whereby They were saved.
Re: Re: Word Whereby They were saved.
Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. (1 Peter 1:22-23).
Purification of the soul comes through the word of God. When one does what God has commanded, God extends his grace (..by grace are you saved...through faith...) Unless one expresses one's self by an acting faith God does not extend Grace. Find one case where grace was extended without an exercise of faith. We are baptized into Christ because we exercise our faith in his word. Thus, I am cleaned of sin (Acts 22:16) because I did arise and was baptized in order to have my sins washed away. God extended his grace to me in cleansing. I don't earn grace, because God has set the bounds of grace. when I do what he wants me to do, he reciprocates with salvation.
How can you explain the statement that the gospel is the power of God unto salvation, if you are saved by the Holy Spirit?
Work on that awhile revhleonard .
JustAChristian
Re: Re: Word Whereby They were saved.
Originally posted by revhleonard
Saved by the word, and i thought we were saved by grace, silly me.......
A new revelation i now give to you. "Jerry got you allright". Some people just don't know when they been got......
Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. (1 Peter 1:22-23).
Purification of the soul comes through the word of God. When one does what God has commanded, God extends his grace (..by grace are you saved...through faith...) Unless one expresses one's self by an acting faith God does not extend Grace. Find one case where grace was extended without an exercise of faith. We are baptized into Christ because we exercise our faith in his word. Thus, I am cleaned of sin (Acts 22:16) because I did arise and was baptized in order to have my sins washed away. God extended his grace to me in cleansing. I don't earn grace, because God has set the bounds of grace. when I do what he wants me to do, he reciprocates with salvation.
How can you explain the statement that the gospel is the power of God unto salvation, if you are saved by the Holy Spirit?
Work on that awhile revhleonard .
JustAChristian
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Evangelion,
Scripture says that the believer is "justified by grace"(Ro.3:24).
Scripture also reveals that "if by grace,then it is no more of works;otherwise grace is no longer grace"(Ro.11:6).
But what about James words "that by works a man is justified"(Jms.2:24)?
The answer is simple for us that know that there are no contradictions in the word of God.A believer is "justified by grace" before God,and justified by "works" before men.
God,Who knows the heart,does not need to judge by a man´s works,but man can only judge by appearances.Besides,Scripture states that man is not justified by "works" before God:
"For if Abraham were justified by works,he hath something of which to glory,BUT NOT BEFORE GOD"(Ro.4:2).
In His grace,--Jerry
Scripture says that the believer is "justified by grace"(Ro.3:24).
Scripture also reveals that "if by grace,then it is no more of works;otherwise grace is no longer grace"(Ro.11:6).
But what about James words "that by works a man is justified"(Jms.2:24)?
The answer is simple for us that know that there are no contradictions in the word of God.A believer is "justified by grace" before God,and justified by "works" before men.
God,Who knows the heart,does not need to judge by a man´s works,but man can only judge by appearances.Besides,Scripture states that man is not justified by "works" before God:
"For if Abraham were justified by works,he hath something of which to glory,BUT NOT BEFORE GOD"(Ro.4:2).
In His grace,--Jerry
Evangelion
New member
No worries, Kevin. Only too happy to help. And I look forward to your return!
Incidentally, I'm giving a public address on Sunday night, to the title "John 1 and the Trinity Explained."
Jerry -
Correct. That is indeed what it says. But this has to be reconciled with the argument of James. You can't take it as an exclusive statement.
Correct. And by "works", Paul refers to the works of the Law of Moses. This is a constant theme in the Pauline epistles.
The only problem with this argument is that the Bible does not say what you need it to say. The Bible clearly tells us that we are justified by works of obedience before God. There is nothing here which might indicate that we are justified "before men." And in any case, the very idea of being "justified before men" is patently ridiculous.
The context of James' argument is extraordinarily clear. You really have to work hard in order to misunderstand what he's saying.
You have failed to acknowledge the context, which is clearly established in the second half of the previous chapter:
...I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
in Genesis 26:4-5. So we see that Abraham was blessed because he obeyed God, and kept His laws.
This is precisely what Paul is saying in Romans 2 & 3. James says the same thing (using different words) in James 2.
There is a world of difference, Jerry, between the works of the Law, and the works of obedience.
Incidentally, I'm giving a public address on Sunday night, to the title "John 1 and the Trinity Explained."
Jerry -
Correct. That is indeed what it says. But this has to be reconciled with the argument of James. You can't take it as an exclusive statement.
Correct. And by "works", Paul refers to the works of the Law of Moses. This is a constant theme in the Pauline epistles.
The only problem with this argument is that the Bible does not say what you need it to say. The Bible clearly tells us that we are justified by works of obedience before God. There is nothing here which might indicate that we are justified "before men." And in any case, the very idea of being "justified before men" is patently ridiculous.
The context of James' argument is extraordinarily clear. You really have to work hard in order to misunderstand what he's saying.
You have failed to acknowledge the context, which is clearly established in the second half of the previous chapter:
- Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
- Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
- But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
- Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
- For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
- Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
- Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
- To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
- Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
[*]Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
- Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
- Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
- Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
...I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
in Genesis 26:4-5. So we see that Abraham was blessed because he obeyed God, and kept His laws.
This is precisely what Paul is saying in Romans 2 & 3. James says the same thing (using different words) in James 2.
There is a world of difference, Jerry, between the works of the Law, and the works of obedience.
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Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Evangelion,
"And if by grace,then it is no more of works;otherwise grace is no longer grace"(Ro.11:6).
You say that the "works" here only refers to "the works of the Law of Moses".
How about these verses:
"For if Abraham were justified by works,he hath something of which to glory,but not before God.For what saith the Scripture?Abraham believed God,and it was accounted to him for righteousness,NOW TO HIM THAT WORKETH IS THE REWARD NOT RECKONED OF GRACE;BUT OF DEBT.But to him that WORKETH NOT,but BELIEVETH on Him that justifeth the ungodly,his faith is counted for righteousness"(Ro.4:2-5).
The subject is the "works" of Abraham.And Scripture reveals that Abraham NEVER lived under the Law of Moses!
And Scripture here is explicit that if one "works" for salvation,then it is no more of grace.
Salvation is a FREE gift--"The GIFT of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ"(Ro.6:23)--"Being justified FREELY by His GRACE (Ro.3:24).
If the sinner has to "work" for eternal life,then that means that it is NOT a free gift.
Those of us who have received the Holy Spirit can distinguish what is given to us "freely" and which things we have to "work" for.And eternal life is a FREE gift.
"Now we have received,not the spirit of the world,but the Spirit Who is of God;that we might know the things that are FREELY given to us of God"(1Cor.2:12).
In His grace,--Jerry
"And if by grace,then it is no more of works;otherwise grace is no longer grace"(Ro.11:6).
You say that the "works" here only refers to "the works of the Law of Moses".
How about these verses:
"For if Abraham were justified by works,he hath something of which to glory,but not before God.For what saith the Scripture?Abraham believed God,and it was accounted to him for righteousness,NOW TO HIM THAT WORKETH IS THE REWARD NOT RECKONED OF GRACE;BUT OF DEBT.But to him that WORKETH NOT,but BELIEVETH on Him that justifeth the ungodly,his faith is counted for righteousness"(Ro.4:2-5).
The subject is the "works" of Abraham.And Scripture reveals that Abraham NEVER lived under the Law of Moses!
And Scripture here is explicit that if one "works" for salvation,then it is no more of grace.
Salvation is a FREE gift--"The GIFT of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ"(Ro.6:23)--"Being justified FREELY by His GRACE (Ro.3:24).
If the sinner has to "work" for eternal life,then that means that it is NOT a free gift.
Those of us who have received the Holy Spirit can distinguish what is given to us "freely" and which things we have to "work" for.And eternal life is a FREE gift.
"Now we have received,not the spirit of the world,but the Spirit Who is of God;that we might know the things that are FREELY given to us of God"(1Cor.2:12).
In His grace,--Jerry
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Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Evangelion,
"And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven,and will give unto thy seed all these countries;and in thy seed shall all the nations be blessed;Because Abraham obeyed My voice,and kept My charge,My commandments,My statutes,and My law"(Gen.26:4-5).
You say,"So we see that Abraham was blessed because he obyed God,and kept His law".
Blessed,yes.But this verse does not say that he was saved because he obyed God and kept His law.
Yes,we have to "work" for some of our blessings that we will enjoy in heaven and here on earth.But we do not have to "work" for salvation.It is a FREE GIFT.
Here is an example of God´s judgment of a believer´s "work":
"Every man´s work shall be made manifest;for the day shall declare it,because it shall be revealed by fire;and the fire shall test every man´s work of what sort it is...if any man¨s work shall be burned,he shall suffer loss;BUT HE HIMSELF SHALL BE SAVED"(1Cor.3:13-15).
In His grace,--Jerry
"And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven,and will give unto thy seed all these countries;and in thy seed shall all the nations be blessed;Because Abraham obeyed My voice,and kept My charge,My commandments,My statutes,and My law"(Gen.26:4-5).
You say,"So we see that Abraham was blessed because he obyed God,and kept His law".
Blessed,yes.But this verse does not say that he was saved because he obyed God and kept His law.
Yes,we have to "work" for some of our blessings that we will enjoy in heaven and here on earth.But we do not have to "work" for salvation.It is a FREE GIFT.
Here is an example of God´s judgment of a believer´s "work":
"Every man´s work shall be made manifest;for the day shall declare it,because it shall be revealed by fire;and the fire shall test every man´s work of what sort it is...if any man¨s work shall be burned,he shall suffer loss;BUT HE HIMSELF SHALL BE SAVED"(1Cor.3:13-15).
In His grace,--Jerry
Evangelion
New member
Way to evade the issues, Jerry. Great eisegesis, too. :up:
Yeah, you really showed me up, that's for sure.
Yeah, you really showed me up, that's for sure.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Evangelion,
Earlier,you said to prove that the word "law" in the following verse does not mean "the Law of Moses":
"Now we know that whatever things law says,it says to them who are under law,that every mouth may be stopped,and all the world may become guilty before God"(Ro.3:18).
How can the Gentiles become guilty under THE LAW of Moses if they never received the Law of Moses?
"...the Gentiles,who have NOT the law..."(Ro.2:14).
Before Paul spoke of being guilty under law,he was talking about two types of law,the Law of Moses which the Jews possessed,and the Gentiles who are "a law unto themselves":
"For when the Gentiles,who have not THE LAW,do by nature the things contained in THE LAW,these,having not THE LAW,are a law unto themselves;who show the work of the law written in their hearts,their conscience also bearing witness..."(Ro.2:14,15).
If the whole world did not have THE LAW OF MOSES,then it is obvious that the whole world could not become guilty before God.
However,if the Gentiles had the works of the law written in their hearts and the Jews had the Law of Moses,then it would be correct to say that "EVERY MOUTH may be stopped,and ALL THE WORLD may become guilty of God"(Ro.3:19).
In His grace,--Jerry
Earlier,you said to prove that the word "law" in the following verse does not mean "the Law of Moses":
"Now we know that whatever things law says,it says to them who are under law,that every mouth may be stopped,and all the world may become guilty before God"(Ro.3:18).
How can the Gentiles become guilty under THE LAW of Moses if they never received the Law of Moses?
"...the Gentiles,who have NOT the law..."(Ro.2:14).
Before Paul spoke of being guilty under law,he was talking about two types of law,the Law of Moses which the Jews possessed,and the Gentiles who are "a law unto themselves":
"For when the Gentiles,who have not THE LAW,do by nature the things contained in THE LAW,these,having not THE LAW,are a law unto themselves;who show the work of the law written in their hearts,their conscience also bearing witness..."(Ro.2:14,15).
If the whole world did not have THE LAW OF MOSES,then it is obvious that the whole world could not become guilty before God.
However,if the Gentiles had the works of the law written in their hearts and the Jews had the Law of Moses,then it would be correct to say that "EVERY MOUTH may be stopped,and ALL THE WORLD may become guilty of God"(Ro.3:19).
In His grace,--Jerry
JustAChristian
New member
Answering Jerry's Post
Answering Jerry's Post
My answers are in Bold Writing
The context shows that to be a fact and I do not deny it. What I do deny though is that it was for their salvation. Peter makes it plain that the Holy Spirit bade him to go to the house of Cornelius. Cornelius was expecting someone to come and tell him words whereby he and his household would be saved. Peter began to preach, the Spirit descended on the household of Cornelius. Peter and the company of Jews that came with him were amazed that the Spirit was in such an array. He then recalled what John the baptizer said would happen–how that Jesus would baptize with the Holy Spirit. He relates this to be an act of God, and was satisfied to continue the preaching of the Gospel. Why did he preach? Cornelius needed to know words whereby he and his household could be saved. What did Peter tell him to do? He commanded him to be baptized. Why? Because the gospel compels baptism (Mark 16:16). Yes, Cornelius was saved by grace through faith. When he exercised his faith in sending for Peter and hearing the gospel and being baptized for the remission of sins, God exercises his grace in obedience (Eph. 2:8-9; Heb 5:8-9).
True statement.
But you must see that Cornelius exercised the option to be united again with the Lord by obedience. (2 Corinthians 5:20).
If by your rational that one must be sinless in order to be saved, what is the purpose of the saving act? Why would the Holy Spirit come upon Cornelius if he is already saved?
You must correlate this to the same as that of Acts 2:38 or you end up trying to make a different message. They must mean the same or be in contradiction one to the other. This would not then be godly.
One does not believe in Jesus if he is not willing to do what Jesus has said (See Luke 6:46).
It was the blood of Jesus Christ that saved them in cleansing from sins (Acts 22:16; Acts 2:38). The cleansing comes in immersion into the death of Christ (Romans 6:3-5) Peter expresses it as a "purifying of the soul in obeying the truth" ( 1Peter 1:22), and this bothers you. You want cleansing by the Holy Spirit separate and apart from the word, but this will never be. The gospel is stedfast and unmovable. It will not change to accommodate our whims.
You have no textual proof of that statement.
Your statement is irrational. Define your statement.
Not related to the context of water baptism for the remission of sins. Peter is merely saying that his preaching was accompanied by the Holy Spirit. This was true with all the apostles and preachers.
All the more reason to listen to it and obey it.
The baptism of the household of Cornelius was not for salvation and did not put them into Christ. The Lord adds to the church those who were and are baptized, but NONE of those added to the church on Pentecost (Acts 2:47) were Holy Spirit baptized.
"Why call ye me Lord, Lord and do not the things which I say?" (Luke 6:46).
Jerry has added nothing that shows salvation comes from a baptism of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit was to give power to the apostles in order that they be able to preach the gospel without error, and to convenience the Jews that the gospel was intended for the Gentiles. When the gospel was preached into all the world, and the message was in errorless script the work of the Holy Spirit ceased on earth. He now continues the work of God from heaven as appointed of God. Piety that so few can or will see this simple truth.
JustAChristian
Answering Jerry's Post
My answers are in Bold Writing
The context shows that to be a fact and I do not deny it. What I do deny though is that it was for their salvation. Peter makes it plain that the Holy Spirit bade him to go to the house of Cornelius. Cornelius was expecting someone to come and tell him words whereby he and his household would be saved. Peter began to preach, the Spirit descended on the household of Cornelius. Peter and the company of Jews that came with him were amazed that the Spirit was in such an array. He then recalled what John the baptizer said would happen–how that Jesus would baptize with the Holy Spirit. He relates this to be an act of God, and was satisfied to continue the preaching of the Gospel. Why did he preach? Cornelius needed to know words whereby he and his household could be saved. What did Peter tell him to do? He commanded him to be baptized. Why? Because the gospel compels baptism (Mark 16:16). Yes, Cornelius was saved by grace through faith. When he exercised his faith in sending for Peter and hearing the gospel and being baptized for the remission of sins, God exercises his grace in obedience (Eph. 2:8-9; Heb 5:8-9).
True statement.
But you must see that Cornelius exercised the option to be united again with the Lord by obedience. (2 Corinthians 5:20).
If by your rational that one must be sinless in order to be saved, what is the purpose of the saving act? Why would the Holy Spirit come upon Cornelius if he is already saved?
You must correlate this to the same as that of Acts 2:38 or you end up trying to make a different message. They must mean the same or be in contradiction one to the other. This would not then be godly.
One does not believe in Jesus if he is not willing to do what Jesus has said (See Luke 6:46).
It was the blood of Jesus Christ that saved them in cleansing from sins (Acts 22:16; Acts 2:38). The cleansing comes in immersion into the death of Christ (Romans 6:3-5) Peter expresses it as a "purifying of the soul in obeying the truth" ( 1Peter 1:22), and this bothers you. You want cleansing by the Holy Spirit separate and apart from the word, but this will never be. The gospel is stedfast and unmovable. It will not change to accommodate our whims.
You have no textual proof of that statement.
Your statement is irrational. Define your statement.
Not related to the context of water baptism for the remission of sins. Peter is merely saying that his preaching was accompanied by the Holy Spirit. This was true with all the apostles and preachers.
All the more reason to listen to it and obey it.
The baptism of the household of Cornelius was not for salvation and did not put them into Christ. The Lord adds to the church those who were and are baptized, but NONE of those added to the church on Pentecost (Acts 2:47) were Holy Spirit baptized.
"Why call ye me Lord, Lord and do not the things which I say?" (Luke 6:46).
Jerry has added nothing that shows salvation comes from a baptism of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit was to give power to the apostles in order that they be able to preach the gospel without error, and to convenience the Jews that the gospel was intended for the Gentiles. When the gospel was preached into all the world, and the message was in errorless script the work of the Holy Spirit ceased on earth. He now continues the work of God from heaven as appointed of God. Piety that so few can or will see this simple truth.
JustAChristian
JustAChristian
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Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls... Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved. (Acts 2:41,47).
The people heard the gospel, Peter told them to repent and be bpptized (Acts 2:38)...they obeyed the command to be baptized and the Lord Jesus Christ added them to the Kingdom of God the church. Summerizing: The heard, believed, repented, confessed and was baptized...they were then added to the body of the saved. This is similar to the message in Acts 8 of the Ethopian Eunuch. He heard and obey the gospel and was baptized in water in desire to be united with the Lord (added to the church). Afterwards, he went on his way rejoicing because he was now born again of water and Spirit (John 3:5). He had purified his soul in obeying the truth (1 Peter 1:22). He was saved because he believed and was baptized (Mark 16:16).
JustAChristian
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