The Heretics Message to the World:Be Baptized to be Saved! (HOF thread)

[c.moore]

Originally posted by rene

Where within the words that Jesus spoke did He indicate that it was an option? Chapter and verse.

Again, the bible was NOT written to unbelievers that were just thinking of becoiming Christians. It was written to people that had already followed the teachings of Jesus.

Teaching anything that is not Jesus teaching is not teaching His teaching. It is not following His example. It is not following His words.

Rene

You8 still need to use bible principles and concepts so you can put things in it correct meanings.

If you study all about what Christ did on the Cross you will see that the other rituals and religious outward works was finished on the cross.

Please do a study about the blood of Christ, and what it does for us already and then compare the blood of Christ which also washes our sins away with John water baptismo, please.

You still didn`t answer:

Do righteous people in the Lord go to hell???

 

[rene]

If you will but study, you will see that there is no scriptural support for the suggetion that you want to support in that there is no need to follow the words of Jesus. You can't see and see as optional the words Jesus spoke to his apostles after He was risen and was giving instructions that are to be followed.

What you want to suggest isn't within scripture. It is stated nowhere within scripture.

That you can't grasp this point shows how you have allowed your heart to be hardened to the very words of Jesus that you want to suggest can be overlooked if one wants to.

Rene

 

[drbrumley]

Ok, Rene, since we are both on opposite ends of the spectrum, can you answer the questions I posted. Thank you in advance.

 

[c.moore]

Originally posted by drbrumley

Ok, Rene, since we are both on opposite ends of the spectrum, can you answer the questions I posted. Thank you in advance.

Let him try to answer my question first biblically which is scriptural.

Do righteous people in the Lord Jesus Christ go to hell???

Ro:5:18: Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Ro:5:19: For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Ro:5:20: Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
Ro:5:21: That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Sorry this scripture is not about a water baptism which should make us righteous as you claim.

 

[rene]

I have answered questions from you and have yet to have you answer ONE of mine....

Rene

 

[c.moore]

Originally posted by rene

I have answered questions from you and have yet to have you answer ONE of mine....

Rene

But you `ve hav mot answered that one and many other people from the beginning of this thread haven`t answered it also.

Me and freak has ask this throught this whole thread and every one who belive in this added salvation work to get saved by water just jump to another question and just avoid it, so try your luck please biblically.

 

[drbrumley]

Rene asks.....

'How can one claim to be a follower if they don't follow the one they claim to follow?'

I do follow Christ's commands.

But I see you won't or can't answer my questions. Too bad. I didn't realize they were so hard.

 

[rene]

Let him try to answer my question first biblically which is scriptural.

To be scriptural, it must COME from scripture.

As to what you pulled from Romans. Whom was the letter written to? Christians. What have or should have people that claim to be Christians have already done? Followed the teachings of Jesus. What did Jesus instruct to be done when sharing the gospel? That all should be baptized.

You want to suggest another teaching other than the one Jesus instructed to be followed. WHERE within scripture is baptism said to be 'optional' as you want to suggest?

Rene

 

[rene]

Me and freak has ask this throught this whole thread and every one who belive in this added salvation work to get saved by water just jump to another question and just avoid it, so try your luck please biblically.

I haven't added anything. I have repeatedly stated that for one to be a follower of Jesus isn't to pick and choose which of His teachings that they are going to follow and passing judgement on His teachings with comments that declare them to be "minor". Jesus teachings are God's will revealed to mankind. That you want to see this teaching as something optional in your buffet approach to the gospel shows a hardness to His words and a turning away from His teachings in favor of your own personal view.

What YOU are doing is passing judgement on a teaching that Jesus left when sharing the gospel, copied yet AGAIN in the hope that you will quit with your comments that go directly against the Son of God whom I serve.

Mat 28:16 But the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain which Jesus appointed [or, designated] to them.
Mat 28:17 And having seen Him, they prostrated themselves in worship before Him, but some were doubtful.
Mat 28:18 And having approached, Jesus spoke to them, saying, "All authority in heaven and on earth was given to Me.
Mat 28:19 "When you* have gone, make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Mat 28:20 teaching them to be observing all [things], as many as I commanded you*. And listen! _I_ am with you* all the days, until the conclusion of the age! So be it!" [Gr. amen, and throughout NT].

These are the instructions left by Jesus. Compare His teaching to what your supporting.

Rene

 

[rene]

But I see you won't or can't answer my questions. Too bad. I didn't realize they were so hard.

The same can be said for the rather simple question that you haven't answerd that I asked.

Rene

 

[drbrumley]

Sheesh, I had to go back and find a question. That's one I found? Is there another one directed towards me? If so, please ask again and I will answer. Every question is to CMoore. Not me. What do you want answered?

 

[c.moore]

Originally posted by rene

To be scriptural, it must COME from scripture.

As to what you pulled from Romans. Whom was the letter written to? Christians. What have or should have people that claim to be Christians have already done? Followed the teachings of Jesus. What did Jesus instruct to be done when sharing the gospel? That all should be baptized.

You want to suggest another teaching other than the one Jesus instructed to be followed. WHERE within scripture is baptism said to be 'optional' as you want to suggest?

Rene

Why can`t you answer the question??

Let me make it easier for you.

Does righteous people in the Lord Jesus go to hell??

Yes_____

or
No____

just answer the yes, and no with a check mark next to your belief or maybe your opinion.

It`s that simple AMEN!

 

[rene]

The question isn't the one that you want to suggest.

The question is, 'Can a person take a teaching of Jesus and say that it is "minor" and teaching something different than the words of Jesus as He instructed and be a Christian?'

THAT is what you have done. THAT is what I have repeatedly pointed out.

 

[rene]

People that are "righteous" are those that follow the teaching of Jesus.

 

[rene]

"drbrumley" - your approach reminds me of the children that I taught when after I repeatedly asked a question - acted as if when finally pinned down to making a reply act as if they never heard it before....

 

[c.moore]

Originally posted by c.moore

Why can`t you answer the question??

Let me make it easier for you.

Does righteous people in the Lord Jesus go to hell??

Yes_____

or
No____

just answer the yes, and no with a check mark next to your belief or maybe your opinion.

It`s that simple AMEN!

Why can`t you still answer the question??

Don´t be afraid just an yes or no.

 

[rene]

*I* am not the one that is suggesting that the words of Jesus no longer are in effect nor need to be followed as *YOU* have been doing.

I am the one that keeps pointing to the words of Jesus and saying to follow them - as we are shown within scripture.

It is YOU that are suggesting doing something other than that.

AGAIN - those that are "righteous" are those that follow Jesus. Those that follow Him don't go to hell.

The question now is can someone claim to be "righteous" and not follow the teachings of Jesus, claim that His words don't have to be followed, call His teachings "minor" is actually "righteous"?

 

[c.moore]

Originally posted by rene

*I* am not the one that is suggesting that the words of Jesus no longer are in effect nor need to be followed as *YOU* have been doing.

I am the one that keeps pointing to the words of Jesus and saying to follow them - as we are shown within scripture.

It is YOU that are suggesting doing something other than that.

AGAIN - those that are "righteous" are those that follow Jesus. Those that follow Him don't go to hell.

The question now is can someone claim to be "righteous" and not follow the teachings of Jesus, claim that His words don't have to be followed, call His teachings "minor" is actually "righteous"?

Why again can`t you answer the question yes or no???

We both know that righteous people and real saved people will do all they can do to follow Christ, but I don`t think they will do animal sacrifes, and many other rituals to prove themselves to get God to love them and honor them as children and righteous christians.

We do because we are righteous from the beginning, not first be something first.

it is like you have to have a fish which is already clean before you catch it, that is backward.

So I am still waiting for this simple answer please.


God Bless

 

[rene]

I answered your question.

People that are "righteous" are those that follow the teaching of Jesus.

The question that you really need to pray is if you are going to follow the words that Jesus instructed for sharing the gospel. Not the one that you want to suggest.

The question is, 'Can a person take a teaching of Jesus and say that it is "minor" and teaching something different than the words of Jesus as He instructed and be a Christian?'

Can someone be "righteous" and not follow the words of Jesus?

THAT is what you have done. THAT is what I have repeatedly pointed out.

 

[c.moore]

No, again the question was an no or yes answer did you answer like this in any of these post or to my underline answer???