The Heretics Message to the World:Be Baptized to be Saved! (HOF thread)
- Thread starter Freak
- Start date
Jerry,
35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning from this Scripture he preached Jesus to him. 36 As they went along the road they came to some water; and the eunuch said, "Look! Water! What prevents me from being baptized?"
Can you answer this with something other than 'this verse does not teach anyone was baptized into Christ by submitting to water baptism? It's obvious the eunuch was moved to baptism through Philip's preaching Jesus to him, and it's obviously a water baptism. So please instruct us all Jerry, explain how the eunuch was not water baptized into Christ Jesus.....
Oh really??? What then was the eunuch baptized into? Look again:
35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning from this Scripture he preached Jesus to him. 36 As they went along the road they came to some water; and the eunuch said, "Look! Water! What prevents me from being baptized?"
Can you answer this with something other than 'this verse does not teach anyone was baptized into Christ by submitting to water baptism? It's obvious the eunuch was moved to baptism through Philip's preaching Jesus to him, and it's obviously a water baptism. So please instruct us all Jerry, explain how the eunuch was not water baptized into Christ Jesus.....
Kevin
New member
c.moore,
If you can show me in the Bible where it states that baptism in the name of the Lord is an outward symbol of faith for other Christians, then sure, I'll certainly change my tune.
I hope you aren't going to try and use Romans 6:5 where it talks about us being in the likeness of His resurrection...
If you can show me in the Bible where it states that baptism in the name of the Lord is an outward symbol of faith for other Christians, then sure, I'll certainly change my tune.
I hope you aren't going to try and use Romans 6:5 where it talks about us being in the likeness of His resurrection...
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Francisco,
You obviously have not been taught that the Christian is baptized into the Body of Christ by the Holy Spirit.
You keep using the verses surroundind the eunuch to prove that he was baptized INTO Christ,but the word "into" cannot be found in any of those verses.You are ADDING to the words of Scripture in order to attempt to make your point.
Well,Francisco,anyone can ADD WORDS TO SCRIPTURE and make Scripture say what they want it to say.
Again,Francisco,there is not one instance in Scripture that states that anyone was ever water baptized into Christ.
Just because you ADD words that are not there does not make it true.I do not need to ADD WORDS to Scripture to make my point because Scriptureaffirms that the believer is indeed baptized into His Body by a BAPTISM OF THE SPIRIT:
"For by one SPIRIT are we all BAPTIZED into one Body...the Body of Christ"(1Cor.12:13,27).
You see,Francisco,my idea is backed by the plain word of Scripture,but you have to add words to Scripture in order to support your idea.And that only shows your lack of respect of the Holy Scriptures as they are written.
Do you deny that the believer is baptized into Christ by the Holy Spirit?
You obviously have not been taught that the Christian is baptized into the Body of Christ by the Holy Spirit.
You keep using the verses surroundind the eunuch to prove that he was baptized INTO Christ,but the word "into" cannot be found in any of those verses.You are ADDING to the words of Scripture in order to attempt to make your point.
Well,Francisco,anyone can ADD WORDS TO SCRIPTURE and make Scripture say what they want it to say.
Again,Francisco,there is not one instance in Scripture that states that anyone was ever water baptized into Christ.
Just because you ADD words that are not there does not make it true.I do not need to ADD WORDS to Scripture to make my point because Scriptureaffirms that the believer is indeed baptized into His Body by a BAPTISM OF THE SPIRIT:
"For by one SPIRIT are we all BAPTIZED into one Body...the Body of Christ"(1Cor.12:13,27).
You see,Francisco,my idea is backed by the plain word of Scripture,but you have to add words to Scripture in order to support your idea.And that only shows your lack of respect of the Holy Scriptures as they are written.
Do you deny that the believer is baptized into Christ by the Holy Spirit?
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Jerry,
35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus. 36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? 37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. 38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him. (Acts 8:35-38, KJV)
It's obvious the eunuch was moved to baptism through Philip's preaching Jesus to him, it's obviously a water baptism, AND the eunuch confessed Jesus Christ is the Son of God just prior to going into the water. So, are you still saying the eunuch wasn't baptized by water into Christ?
LOL!!!
Oh really??? What then WAS the eunuch baptized into? Look again:
35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus. 36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? 37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. 38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him. (Acts 8:35-38, KJV)
It's obvious the eunuch was moved to baptism through Philip's preaching Jesus to him, it's obviously a water baptism, AND the eunuch confessed Jesus Christ is the Son of God just prior to going into the water. So, are you still saying the eunuch wasn't baptized by water into Christ?
LOL!!!
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Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Francisco,
You did not answer my question.Are believers baptized into Christ by the Spirit?
Let me give you a clue:
"For by one SPIRIT are we all BAPTIZED INTO ONE BODY...the Body of Christ"(1Cor.12:13,27).
Can you answer,or are you going to continue to insist that it is by a "water baptism" that the believer is baptized into Christ--even though you cannot even provide one Scripture that says that submitting to the rite of water baptism baptizes anyone "into Christ".
And no matter how many times you quote the verses concerning the eunuch,you are never going to find the words that anyone was water baptized INTO CHRIST.
IT IS NOT THERE FRANCISCO!
You need to come back to REALITY.
You did not answer my question.Are believers baptized into Christ by the Spirit?
Let me give you a clue:
"For by one SPIRIT are we all BAPTIZED INTO ONE BODY...the Body of Christ"(1Cor.12:13,27).
Can you answer,or are you going to continue to insist that it is by a "water baptism" that the believer is baptized into Christ--even though you cannot even provide one Scripture that says that submitting to the rite of water baptism baptizes anyone "into Christ".
And no matter how many times you quote the verses concerning the eunuch,you are never going to find the words that anyone was water baptized INTO CHRIST.
IT IS NOT THERE FRANCISCO!
You need to come back to REALITY.
Kevin
New member
Jerry,
Why do you continually dodge Francisco's question? Just WHO was the eunuch baptized into?
I know you addressed this to Francisco, but I'd like to comment on this as well. It depends on what you mean. If you are asking if all believers are baptized by the Holy Spirit by having it fall upon them and rest on their heads as it did to the Gentiles in Acts 10:44, the answer is NO, this does not happen to all believers upon hearing and believing the gospel. The Samaritans in Acts 8:5-16 proves this.
People are led to baptism by the Spirit, the word of God. The words of the apostles are inspired by the Holy Spirit. Philip also spoke with inspirtation of the Holy Spirit. When the eunuch heard the inspired word of God, which is the Spirit, (John 16:13, Eph. 6:17), he was baptized into Jesus Christ. By one Spirit, the eunuch was baptized into Christ.
Again, if you don't think that the eunuch was baptized into Christ, despite the fact that he was preached Jesus, just who do you think he was baptized into?
The baptism spoken of in Romans 6, which is the one that puts us into Christ, is the same baptism that forgives sins. It clearly states that in Romans 6:6-7. Well, the baptism that forgives sins is baptism in the name of the Lord. (Acts 2:38). This of course uses WATER. Same baptism. The apostles practiced what they preached: water baptism in the name of the Lord for the remission of sins. This same baptism puts them INTO CHRIST.
Again, the baptism that puts us INTO CHRIST is the same one that forgives sins. Where does it say that Spirit baptism forgives sins? We already know that WATER baptism in the name of the Lord forgives sins, but where's the verse that shows that Spirit baptism will do this for a person. The fact is that it doesn't, which is exactly why Peter commanded the Gentiles to be water baptized in the name of the Lord DESPITE the fact that the Holy Spirit had already fallen upon them.
So, because Spirit baptism does NOT forgive sins, it CAN'T be the one spoken of in Romans 6, which puts us into Christ, because the baptism spoken of in Romans 6 frees us from sin (verses 6,7).
Why do you continually dodge Francisco's question? Just WHO was the eunuch baptized into?
I know you addressed this to Francisco, but I'd like to comment on this as well. It depends on what you mean. If you are asking if all believers are baptized by the Holy Spirit by having it fall upon them and rest on their heads as it did to the Gentiles in Acts 10:44, the answer is NO, this does not happen to all believers upon hearing and believing the gospel. The Samaritans in Acts 8:5-16 proves this.
People are led to baptism by the Spirit, the word of God. The words of the apostles are inspired by the Holy Spirit. Philip also spoke with inspirtation of the Holy Spirit. When the eunuch heard the inspired word of God, which is the Spirit, (John 16:13, Eph. 6:17), he was baptized into Jesus Christ. By one Spirit, the eunuch was baptized into Christ.
Again, if you don't think that the eunuch was baptized into Christ, despite the fact that he was preached Jesus, just who do you think he was baptized into?
The baptism spoken of in Romans 6, which is the one that puts us into Christ, is the same baptism that forgives sins. It clearly states that in Romans 6:6-7. Well, the baptism that forgives sins is baptism in the name of the Lord. (Acts 2:38). This of course uses WATER. Same baptism. The apostles practiced what they preached: water baptism in the name of the Lord for the remission of sins. This same baptism puts them INTO CHRIST.
Again, the baptism that puts us INTO CHRIST is the same one that forgives sins. Where does it say that Spirit baptism forgives sins? We already know that WATER baptism in the name of the Lord forgives sins, but where's the verse that shows that Spirit baptism will do this for a person. The fact is that it doesn't, which is exactly why Peter commanded the Gentiles to be water baptized in the name of the Lord DESPITE the fact that the Holy Spirit had already fallen upon them.
So, because Spirit baptism does NOT forgive sins, it CAN'T be the one spoken of in Romans 6, which puts us into Christ, because the baptism spoken of in Romans 6 frees us from sin (verses 6,7).
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Jerry,
You didn't answer MY question. Into what was the eunuch baptized after being moved to baptism through Philip's preaching Jesus to him, AND confessing Jesus Christ is the Son of God, just prior to going into the water?
Do you still say the eunuch wasn't baptized through water into Christ? LOL... Take another look:
35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus. 36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? 37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. 38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him. (Acts 8:35-38, KJV)
Do you require everything be spelled out explicitly like 'the eunuch went into the water to be baptized into Christ'? If so, I'll be presenting you with larger problems for your theology than water baptism.....
God Bless,
Francisco
You didn't answer MY question. Into what was the eunuch baptized after being moved to baptism through Philip's preaching Jesus to him, AND confessing Jesus Christ is the Son of God, just prior to going into the water?
Do you still say the eunuch wasn't baptized through water into Christ? LOL... Take another look:
35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus. 36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? 37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. 38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him. (Acts 8:35-38, KJV)
Do you require everything be spelled out explicitly like 'the eunuch went into the water to be baptized into Christ'? If so, I'll be presenting you with larger problems for your theology than water baptism.....
God Bless,
Francisco
c.moore,
Since Jerry obviously can't answer my question regarding the eunuch, maybe you can take a shot at it?
35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus. 36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? 37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. 38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him. (Acts 8:35-38, KJV)
It's obvious the eunuch was moved to baptism through Philip's preaching Jesus to him, it's obviously a water baptism, AND the eunuch confessed Jesus Christ is the Son of God just prior to going into the water. So, was the eunuch baptized by water into Christ? If not, what was the eunuch baptized into?
God Bless,
Francisco
Since Jerry obviously can't answer my question regarding the eunuch, maybe you can take a shot at it?
35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus. 36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? 37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. 38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him. (Acts 8:35-38, KJV)
It's obvious the eunuch was moved to baptism through Philip's preaching Jesus to him, it's obviously a water baptism, AND the eunuch confessed Jesus Christ is the Son of God just prior to going into the water. So, was the eunuch baptized by water into Christ? If not, what was the eunuch baptized into?
God Bless,
Francisco
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Kevin,
Are you aware that the idea that water could ACTUALLY wash away sin came from the pagan beliefs of the gnostics?
They believed that sin could actually attach to the body,so if that was true they reasoned that water could actually wash away sins.
You seem to be under that impression also.
Is that what you believe?
In His grace,--Jerry
Are you aware that the idea that water could ACTUALLY wash away sin came from the pagan beliefs of the gnostics?
They believed that sin could actually attach to the body,so if that was true they reasoned that water could actually wash away sins.
You seem to be under that impression also.
Is that what you believe?
In His grace,--Jerry
Kevin
New member
Jerry,
I believe that we are washed of our sins by the blood of Christ, through water baptism that was commanded of us for the remission of sins. I don't believe there's anything magical about the water itself, but I do believe in its necessity because water is clearly called for and used in the baptism that Jesus commanded in the Great Commission and therefore should be followed explicitly.
I believe that we are washed of our sins by the blood of Christ, through water baptism that was commanded of us for the remission of sins. I don't believe there's anything magical about the water itself, but I do believe in its necessity because water is clearly called for and used in the baptism that Jesus commanded in the Great Commission and therefore should be followed explicitly.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Kevin,
You are quite correct that the sins of the believer are washed away by the blood of Jesus Christ.
But Scripture states that the application of the blood comes through the Holy Spirit and not by water:
"Elect,according to the foreknowledge of God,the Father,through SANCTIFICATION OF THE SPIRIT,UNTO obedience and SPRINKLING OF THE BLOOD OF JESUS CHRIST"(1Pet.1:2).
The sinner is "sanctified by the Holy Spirit" when he is "washed by the blood of Jesus Christ".
In His grace,--Jerry
You are quite correct that the sins of the believer are washed away by the blood of Jesus Christ.
But Scripture states that the application of the blood comes through the Holy Spirit and not by water:
"Elect,according to the foreknowledge of God,the Father,through SANCTIFICATION OF THE SPIRIT,UNTO obedience and SPRINKLING OF THE BLOOD OF JESUS CHRIST"(1Pet.1:2).
The sinner is "sanctified by the Holy Spirit" when he is "washed by the blood of Jesus Christ".
In His grace,--Jerry
Jerry,
The Holy Spirit and water are connected from the beginning of scripture:
Gen 1:2b 'And the Spirit of God moved upon the waters.'
The Spirit of God moving upon the waters was the beginning of life. Tertullian said the spirit of God gave 'life, vigor and motion to things.' In other words, the Spirit of God conferred life upon the earth through water.
Why do you contend the Holy Spirit can no longer confer life through water?
But does scripture say how the HOLY SPIRIT COMES? Can the Holy Spirit come through water?
The Holy Spirit and water are connected from the beginning of scripture:
Gen 1:2b 'And the Spirit of God moved upon the waters.'
The Spirit of God moving upon the waters was the beginning of life. Tertullian said the spirit of God gave 'life, vigor and motion to things.' In other words, the Spirit of God conferred life upon the earth through water.
Why do you contend the Holy Spirit can no longer confer life through water?