ECT The Grace of God. Is it merited or unmerited?

[intojoy]

I am surprised too . . . this is Gnostic think!

Please explain, Totton!

Don't explain it to them while they're being controlled by their old natures.


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[God's Truth]

Unregenerated sinners cannot. . .





Gnosticism.





More Gnosticism.

I gave you scripture and you call it gnosticism,

You believe that God saves unbelievers. That is NOWHERE in the Bible.

 

[Cross Reference]

Show me

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Doesn't it seem odd that *God gave over to reprobation those who no longer wished to RETAIN Him in their thinking? TL, by her idiotic reasoning, demonstrates she is a real piece of religious "nut bread".

*Romans 1:28 KJV.

 

[chrysostom]

Jesus taught us to pray
-to ask for forgiveness
-to ask for our daily bread
-you want grace?
-ask for it
-pray
-like your life depended on it

 

[Truster]

You mean you have nothing to support your accusation. I understand.

My irony meter just blew.

 

[Cross Reference]

Quote Originally Posted by JonahofAkron View Post
I don't see what you're trying to prove in that verse. Being made perfect in suffering is the legal standing that He did. Bringing upon Himself the weight of our sins and being without sin, His suffering and death ends His life on our behalf and finalizes His ability to withstand sin. If He dies without sinning, His legal standing is perfection. Nothing there about learning to be obedient, dude.

Well dude, deal with this: "And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
Philippians 2:8-0 (KJV)

That was His reward for His obedience.

 

[Cross Reference]

My irony meter just blew.

More likely because it is rusty.

 

[Cross Reference]

And for you good people who believe Jesus did it all for our salvation as purposed in God per John 17:3, swallow this:

"Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings"Philippians 2:12-14(KJV)

You might want to consider that that is the way Jesus did it.

 

[nikolai_42]

You are badly mistaken not understanding the scriptures.

One scripture can prove you wrong, here are more than one showing people could and did obey properly:

Genesis 32:28 Then the man said, "Your name will no longer be Jacob, but Israel, because you have struggled with God and with humans and have overcome."

Luke 1:6 Both of them were righteous in the sight of God, observing all the Lord's commands and decrees blamelessly.

Genesis 6:8 But Noah found favor in the eyes of the LORD.

Genesis 7:1 The LORD then said to Noah, "Go into the ark, you and your whole family, because I have found you righteous in this generation.

Luke 2:25 Now there was a man in Jerusalem called Simeon, who was righteous and devout. He was waiting for the consolation of Israel, and the Holy Spirit was on him.

John 1:47 When Jesus saw Nathanael approaching, he said of him, "Here truly is an Israelite in whom there is no deceit."

Job 1:1, 8 There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God...

1 Kings 9:4 And if you will walk before me, as David your father walked, in integrity of heart, and in uprightness...

1 Kings 15:5 For David had done what was right in the eyes of the LORD and had not failed to keep any of the LORD's commands all the days of his life--except in the case of Uriah the Hittite.

Genesis 17:1 When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the LORD appeared to him and said, "I am God Almighty; walk before me faithfully and be blameless.

Genesis 26:4-5 I will make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and will give them all these lands, and through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed, because Abraham obeyed me and kept my requirements, my commands, my decrees and my laws."

Luke 1:30 But the angel said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary; you have found favor with God.

Acts 22:12 "A man named Ananias came to see me. He was a devout observer of the law and highly respected by all the Jews living there.

Hebrews 11:5 By faith Enoch was taken from this life, so that he did not experience death: "He could not be found, because God had taken him away." For before he was taken, he was commended as one who pleased God.

Genesis 5:24 Enoch walked faithfully with God; then he was no more, because God took him away.

Luke 2:37 and then was a widow until she was eighty-four. She never left the temple but worshiped night and day, fasting and praying.

Acts 10:22 The men replied, "We have come from Cornelius the centurion. He is a righteous and God-fearing man, who is respected by all the Jewish people.


What you have shown is your confusion and not God’s Truth. Paul was explaining who it was for those UNDER the law WITHOUT faith.

Remember, God cut off faithless Jews.

Okay...so would those righteous men you cite NOT need Jesus?

For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Romans 5:19

 

[God's Truth]

Okay...

That is all you have to say about the scriptures that show us people obeyed before being indwelt with the Holy Spirit for salvation?

Those scriptures prove we can obey and have to obey to get saved, and to stay saved.

so would those righteous men you cite NOT need Jesus?

How do you get it might mean we do not need Jesus? Please answer that question.

How do you ever get obeying Jesus to be saved means we do not need Jesus?

For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Romans 5:19

Jesus is the only one who was righteous and had NO SIN.

There are people who obeyed, were called righteous, but they were not without a sin EVER.

All those who were righteous before Jesus dying for them and receiving the Holy Spirit...they were not the temple of the Holy Spirit, yet.

 

[God's Truth]

Well dude, deal with this: "And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
Philippians 2:8-0 (KJV)

That was His reward for His obedience.

That was the plan for salvation before the creation of the world...that God would come as a Man and die for us and through Jesus give salvation...reconciliation...for all.

 

[God's Truth]

Jesus taught us to pray
-to ask for forgiveness
-to ask for our daily bread
-you want grace?
-ask for it
-pray
-like your life depended on it

You are a prideful Catholic like other Catholics that take pride in knowing he does not yet know if he is saved or not.

There is much wrong with Catholics who do not understand that it is not right to not understand.

 

[nikolai_42]

That is all you have to say about the scriptures that show us people obeyed before being indwelt with the Holy Spirit for salvation?

Those scriptures prove we can obey and have to obey to get saved, and to stay saved.

How do you get it might mean we do not need Jesus? Please answer that question.

How do you ever get obeying Jesus to be saved means we do not need Jesus?



Jesus is the only one who was righteous and had NO SIN.

There are people who obeyed, were called righteous, but they were not without a sin EVER.

All those who were righteous before Jesus dying for them and receiving the Holy Spirit...they were not the temple of the Holy Spirit, yet.

Then of what benefit was their righteousness?

 

[Jamie Gigliotti]

God acted first, Jesus poured out blood, offered forgiveness, offered himself, His Spirit all Because of His love, His Mercy, His grace. None of us deserve any of this. He acted. Will we embrace Him and be moved by Him and His love and live For Him? That is the decision at hand. Us accepting the terms of His gifts doesn't take away from the fact that it all depends upon undeserved favor. Grace!

He gracefully loves us. Will we rightfully love Him in return?

 

[God's Truth]

God acted first, Jesus poured out blood, offered forgiveness, offered himself, His Spirit all Because of His love, His Mercy, His grace. None of us deserve any of this. He acted. Will we embrace Him and be moved by Him and His love and live For Him? That is the decision at hand. Us accepting the terms of His gifts doesn't take away from the fact that it all depends upon undeserved favor. Grace!

He gracefully loves us. Will we rightfully love Him in return?

We do not love Him until we obey Him---that is what the Bible SAYS.

Jesus tells us what to do to be saved.

Jesus tells us what to do to stay saved.

 

[JonahofAkron]

Well dude, deal with this: "And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
Philippians 2:8-0 (KJV)

That was His reward for His obedience.

Ok. This still doesn't prove your point. He was obedient to death. I get it. There is no learning to be obedient. As a matter of fact, this proves me right.



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[God's Truth]

Then of what benefit was their righteousness?

God's favor was on them.

 

[Truster]

More likely because it is rusty.

It doesn't have a chance to get rusty with people like you around.

 

[Cross Reference]

Ok. This still doesn't prove your point. He was obedient to death. I get it. There is no learning to be obedient. As a matter of fact, this proves me right.

Only in your mind.

As with Adam, so it was with Jesus, the second Adam of a new creation. Both had to be proven for headship by the things they suffered.. Adam didn't make the cut.


"Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings"Philippians 2:12-14(KJV)

You might want to consider that that is the way Jesus did it. He made the cut as it is now given to those born again to follow suit.

END OF DISCUSSION

 

[heir]

Never mind detractiing to Paul, stay with what the scriptures states and give an answer from your own understanding?

Someone is rightfully looking to Paul as a pattern (1 Timothy 1:16 KJV) and you say never mind Paul. Why should they? Following Paul is right (1 Corinthians 4:15-16 KJV), holding fast the form of sound words that we have heard of Paul is imperative (2 Timothy 1:13 KJV). Considering what Paul says is when the Lord gives understanding (2 Timothy 2:7-8 KJV)!

Your advice is bad advice! We should stick with Paul in Romans through Philemon!