Rosenritter
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ECT The Gospel Proper
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Your name still isn't right.
You know that article Why the Mystery that I posted by Nancy Paulson - well the book kind of reads like that and is much like Things That Differ in its actually citing in full the many passages of Scripture it is basing its assertions on.
If you'll hurry, you just might find a very, very inexpensive copy of it on Amazon, or some other online book distributor - I saw it once for a dollar.
Why?
Because Mid-Acts writings are simply not that well-known, even within Mid-Acts, let alone, outside of Mid-Acts.
But the book reads much like this article, Why The Mystery, by Nancy Paulson, only, with a much more of fuller narrative on each point, because it is laid out in book form.
http://www.bereanworkman.com/miscellaneous/wise.html
Acts 17: 11, 12.
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What it is, is that that Grace that was Promised Israel by Covenant in Prophecy - Israel's New Covenant's ENABLEMENT - is given God's Mystery Age New Creature: The Body, By Grace.
Both made possible by the Blood of Christ.
But they are not the same, nor does their enablement function the same.
But both are an aspect within God's TWO-Fold Purpose: Prophecy (the Earth that a one day redeemed back unto God Israel will reign over) and Mystery (the Heavenly realm that God's New Creature: the Body of Christ, will one day reign over).
Mix them up and what one is doing is nothing more than building that wood, hay, and stubble, that one will one day find out, had been just that - wood, hay, and stubble - for the day shall declare it - 1 Cor. 3:13.
This assumes the person was saved to begin with.
For Paul's Mystery Grace Age preaching was rightly not, a works for salvation gospel.
What about you, are you saved, Rosenritter?
Let's get that out of the way, first.
This here...
Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
Galatians 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
In other words ALL of Romans 5: 6-11.
It's an important distinction within God's present, Paul's Christ given Mystery Grace Age, Ephesians 1 thru 3.
Nonsense.
For He was actually describing those who would endure unto the end, the elect of Israel it would not be possible to decieve, those of them, who actually were...of them.
Matthew 10:19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. 10:20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you. 10:21 And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death. 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved. 10:23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.
The "shall be" there functions just like it does in the following..
Acts 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the LORD Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
In both examples, it is a principle that is being described, not a time frame.
As is the case "the just shall live by faith" Romans 1:17.
And no, I am not asserting your absolute nonsense about Israelites under the kingdom program being saved by faith alone.
Their covenant was IF you believe God gave you this Law, THEN you will walk in its statutes, not as pleasing men (mere outward works only) but as pleasing God - from a heart of faith towards God, as Israelites, under the Law...
Deuteronomy 6:24 And the LORD commanded us to do all these statutes, to fear the LORD our God, for our good always, that he might preserve us alive, as it is at this day. 6:25 And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the LORD our God, as he hath commanded us.
Which was why so many of them failed to believe Christ was their Messiah - because they did not really believe Moses (faith) but were merely putting on an outward show of baseless works.
Until God temporarily cut that off...
Romans 2:25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.
Is that all there was to that?
Nope - for they had to keep the Law from within a heart of faith - towards God.
2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Result of their falsehood of mere outer works only - as pleasing men - not as pleasing God (faith)?
John 5:41 I receive not honour from men. 5:42 But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you. 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. 5:44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only? 5:45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. 5:46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. 5:47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?
Acts 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye. 7:52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers: 7:53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.
And with that, God temporarily cut them off from that, temporarily delaying that Wrath that they'd then been headed for, as a Nation...
Romans 9:28 For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth. 9:29 And as Esaias said before, Except the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed, we had been as Sodoma, and been made like unto Gomorrha.
Romans 9:30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; 9:33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Get your Mid-Acts house in order, Jerry.
Acts 17: 11, 12.
Correct. The New Covenant is still of law, because it was for the people of the circumcision (which is used many times in the Bible as a synecdoche for the law)
And how is that remission achieved? :think:
Question: Why is the word "remission" used instead of "forgiveness" in the English versions of the Bible? The same word ("aphesis") is used every time, and it means forgiveness... So why "remission"?
Its because APHESIS' primary definition is "release."
| Strong's g859 - Lexical: ἄφεσις - Transliteration: aphesis - Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine - Phonetic Spelling: af'-es-is - Definition: a sending away, a letting go, a release, pardon, complete forgiveness. - Origin: From aphiemi; freedom; (figuratively) pardon. - Usage: deliverance, forgiveness, liberty, remission. - Translated as (count): forgiveness (15), deliverance (2). |
The Greek word used for "testament" in this verse (and others) means "covenant" (and "testament", to be sure, and "a will" (like a "last will and testament")).
Jesus is speaking about the New Covenant, Not just "a" new covenant.
Not once in Jesus' entire ministry did Christ speak the word grace, as far as we know.
The first time the Bible records Christ using the word grace is when He is speaking to Paul:
And He said to me, [JESUS]“My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness.”[/JESUS] Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. - 2 Corinthians 12:9 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2Corinthians12:9&version=NKJV
Correct.
However, Not once does Paul use the word "remission".
Remission is found only 9 times in the New Testament, and ONLY in Matthew, Mark, Luke, Acts, and Hebrews, and the one time it's found after Paul is introduced is when it's used by Peter, speaking to Cornelius.
Question:
Where, in anywhere before Acts 9, is it mentioned that the forgiveness of sins is "according to the riches of [God's] grace" and not a requirement of the law, as stated and explained by Christ Himself:
And forgive us our debts, As we forgive our debtors.“ . . . For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. - Matthew 6:12,14-15 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew6:12,14-15&version=NKJV
That's law, not grace.
Grace is being forgiven, and then because of that, forgiving others.
Here's a chart that explains it, from Pastor Enyart's The Plot:
See above.
That's what you're trying to prove. Assuming the conclusion of your argument is called circular reasoning.
Right, the New Covenant, which He made with Israel, the people of the LAW.
The new covenant of the spirit, not the law.
Which is grace, not law.
I recommend you start reading chapter 9 at verse 1, and read up to this verse.
Then tell me if it's not talking about LAW.
Note the "sprinkling of blood", which was part of, you guessed it, the LAW.
The problem with the above is that, while unintentional, you have assumed that the phrase "new covenant" is ALWAYS referring to the same thing, yet as I showed above (briefly), paying attention to the details shows that two different new covenants are spoken of.
God's Truth
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You haven't proven that I speak lies.
God's Truth
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Jesus tells us what we 'all' have to do to get saved.
He doesn't tell everyone to help him lay the foundation. We weren't around then, and the foundation is already laid.
musterion
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YOU DO NOT get to greedily cop out of obeying His commands by saying some were only foundational, while telling everyone else they don't obey Him as good as you do.
Jerry Shugart
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Yes, as a nation! But those belonging to the remnant were made members of the Body of Christ, as evidenced by what Paul said here:
"But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace. And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby"(Eph.2:13-15).
Here Paul is speaking about two groups of believers and if those two groups are not the believing Jews (the remnant of Romans 11:5) and the believing Gentiles then please identify the two groups.
You have absolutely no spiritual insight because you can't even understand the following words, perhaps the most quoted verse from the Bible:
"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life" (Jn.3:16).
You obviously do not believe that "whoever" believes in the Lord Jesus has eternal life because according to your perverted ideas "believing" was not enough to receive eternal life for the Jews who lived under the law. You are blind to the truth of the Lord Jesus' words here:
"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).
Get a clue:
"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned" (1 Cor.2:14).
God's Truth
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You don't even say what I say.
Yo, braniac, the Gentiles there, are said to have been far off from, or outside of the Commonwealth of Israel and its Covenants with God.
That would be before Acts 7.
Just as it was in Acts that Israel was temporarily cut off from its Commonwealth, its Covenant Promises, etc.
Ephesians 2:13's "But Now in Christ" is after Israel was temporarily cut off.
Both groups there at Ephesus, were lost Jews and Gentiles in between after Acts 7 and when Paul reached them, many years later.
The "But Now" is from Acts 9 forward, but he didn't reach those lost Jews and Gentiles at Ephesus, until many years later.
As for your citing that passage in 1 Cor. 2: 14 about the natural man not being able to receive the things of God, obviously you hold the traditional, erroneous view of that passage - that Paul is supposedly referring to lost people.
Which is just plain dumb, because not only are lost people not whom he is adressing there (which would be dumb to do, if they wouldn't be able to get it anyway, duh-uh), nor whom he is speaking of, while, in the very next chapter, he makes it as obvious as he did in chapter two, as to part of what and of whom he was actually referring to.
Lol - you probably also hold to the error that his "comparing spiritual things with spiritual" refers to comparing Bible verses.
You're a mess of a by-product of the ever endless books based wisdom of men, Jerry.
Acts 17: 11, 12.
musterion
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JohnW DID.
You are on record as saying ALL of Jesus' commands need to be obeyed for salvation, YOU LIAR.
Jerry Shugart
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There were "individual" Jews who were saved well before the "nation" of Israel was temporarily cast aside.
By the time when Ephesians 2:13-16 was written two groups were being baptized into the Body of Christ no matter when any of them believed.
You still have not answered exactly who made up those groups. I say that one group was the believing Jews (the remnant of Romans 11:5) and the other group was the believing Gentiles:
"But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby" (Eph.2:13-16).
If one group is not the remnant of Romans 11:5 then what happened to the remnant. And if one group isn't the remnant of Romans 11:5 then who are the "two" groups Paul refers to at Ephesians 2:13-16?
Are you capable of answering this?
It is you who is a mess because you cannot even understand what is being said in the following verse:
"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life" (Jn.3:16).
I challenge you to prove that you are not a mess by giving us your interpretation of the meaning of the words at John 3:16.
musterion
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God's Truth
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That is just too goofy to respond to.
Jesus told demons to "Go" and they went in some pigs.
Do you think that is a command for you too?
Jesus tells someone to get him a colt.
Do you think that means all should get a colt for Jesus?
I can't believe how ignorant of an argument some people give to get out of obeying Jesus.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Would you give me your interpretation of the meaning of the words of the Lord Jesus here?:
"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (Jn.6:63).
So, you lied when you said "everything," or, are so stupid, you do not understand the meaning of "everything," or you are hitting "Happy Hour" right before you post, still trying to beat "The Christmas Lush." Which is it?
God's Truth
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It means what it says. Jesus gave us some commands to do or we will NOT enter, we won't have the Spirit and life.
That scripture is when some people thought that Jesus was telling them to literally eat his flesh. Jesus says the flesh counts for nothing, as in it will do nothing for you to eat flesh.
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