ECT The "Church" at Acts 2 Was Not the Body of Christ

[Jerry Shugart]

Funny, that can't be how Peter understood it.

Why not?

 

[jamie]

Why not?

Then Peter said to them, "Repent and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." (Acts 2:38 NKJV)​

The gift of the Holy Spirit is eternal life, not speaking in other languages.

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Romans 6:23 NKJV)​

 

[Cross Reference]

Why not?

If you have to ask then you shouldn't be so adamant about your declarations about what gifts you can only suppose came later because, - - you weren't there.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

If you have to ask then you shouldn't be so adamant about your declarations about what gifts you can only suppose came later because, - - you weren't there.

I was asking for Scriptual proof to support your assertion. Evidently you have none.

 

[DAN P]

If you have to ask then you shouldn't be so adamant about your declarations about what gifts you can only suppose came later because, - - you weren't there.

Hi , then explain 1 Cor 13:8 and why it is in the FUTURE Tense :bang::bang:

Why were only 3 gifts ceased ??

dan p

 

[StanJ]

Yes, Jesus asked his apostles to preach to the Jews first. This is what Peter did, he preached to the Jews first before he went to Cornelius.

The reason there were Jews from various countries in Jerusalem that day is because this was one of the three annual pilgrimage festivals.

and? I already know this...what is your point?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Then Peter said to them, "Repent and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." (Acts 2:38 NKJV)​

The gift of the Holy Spirit is eternal life, not speaking in other languages.

The believers received the following gift bestowed by the Holy Spirit:

"...no one can say, 'Jesus is Lord,' except by the Holy Spirit. There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit distributes them.To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues. All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines" (1 Cor.12:3-4, 8-11; NIV).​

 

[StanJ]

Hi , then explain 1 Cor 13:8 and why it is in the FUTURE Tense
Why were only 3 gifts ceased ??

Because that is what Paul is talking about, WHEN this happens, not IF

Because God is LOVE, He will never cease. Every other trait and spiritual gift given to men will, because when we are made perfect at His return, we will not need these, which is why they will cease to exist. We will then function completely and perfectly in faith, hope and love.

 

[Cross Reference]

I was asking for Scriptual proof to support your assertion. Evidently you have none.

I don't need any.

 

[DAN P]

Because that is what Paul is talking about, WHEN this happens, not IF

Because God is LOVE, He will never cease. Every other trait and spiritual gift given to men will, because when we are made perfect at His return, we will not need these, which is why they will cease to exist. We will then function completely and perfectly in faith, hope and love.

Hi and in 1 Cor 13:8 , and you believe that the gifts of are in action today ??

Then why are there not LANGUAGES and they speak GIBBERISH ??:rotfl::rotfl:

DAN P

 

[Cross Reference]

Then Peter said to them, "Repent and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." (Acts 2:38 NKJV)​

The gift of the Holy Spirit is eternal life, not speaking in other languages.

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Romans 6:23 NKJV)​

Words in this mean something. Pay attention to how the verse reads. "It is a gift of God" because of/through, Jesus Christ.. Pentecost has nothing to do with it.

 

[Cross Reference]

Hi and in 1 Cor 13:8 , and you believe that the gifts of are in action today ??

Then why are there not LANGUAGES and they speak GIBBERISH ??:rotfl::rotfl:

DAN P

Why don't you ask the Lord to give you understanding?

 

[StanJ]

Hi and in 1 Cor 13:8 , and you believe that the gifts of are in action today ??
Then why are there not LANGUAGES and they speak GIBBERISH ??

I, KNOW they are, but as you have NOT received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, you make fun of what you do not or can not understand.
All I can do is pray that God wakes you up to the reality of His Holy Spirit, as He did the men in Acts 19:1-7 (NIV)
I'm sure ALL your experiences are either here say or YouTube, which of course means absolutely nothing, as to the validity of the true experience of the infilling of the Holy Spirit.

 

[jamie]

Pentecost has nothing to do with it.

Actually it does. The Ten Commandments were given at Mt. Sinai on Pentecost. A few years later the Holy Spirit needed to keep the Commandments was given.

Without God's Spirit a person is not all there.

 

[Cross Reference]

Actually it does. The Ten Commandments were given at Mt. Sinai on Pentecost. A few years later the Holy Spirit needed to keep the Commandments was given.

Without God's Spirit a person is not all there.

I repeat, Pentecost has no bearing on any of whatever it is you wishing to convey.

 

[oatmeal]

I will begin the by quoting this verse which speaks of the "church" at Acts 2:

"Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church (ekklesia) daily such as should be saved" (Acts 2:47).​

The Greek word translated "church" is ekklesia and that word can be found in the Greek version of the Old Testament (the LXX). Alfred Edersheim, a Jewish convert to Christianity and a respected Bible scholar, wrote the following:

"Nor would the term 'Church' sound strange in Jewish ears. The same Greek word (ekklesia), as the equivalent of the Hebrew 'Qahal,' 'convocation,' 'the called,' occurs in the LXX. rendering of the Old Testament, and in 'the Wisdom of the Son of Sirach' and was apparently in familiar use at that time. In Hebrew use it referred to Israel, not in their national but in their religious unity" [emphasis added] (Edersheim, The Life and Times of Jesus the Messiah [Grand Rapids, MI: Wm. M. Eerdmans Publishing 1971] Book 3, Chapter 37, p.84).​

According to Edersheim the Greek word translated "church" was in familiar use and "it referred to Israel...in their religious unity."

Next, let us look at the events here which surrounded the ekklesia of Acts 2:

"For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day. But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams" (Acts 2:16-17).​

The exact same events are foretold here by Joel and these events surround the church, which in this case is Israel in her religious unity:

"Blow the trumpet in Zion, sanctify a fast, call a solemn assembly: Gather the people, sanctify the congregation (ekklesia) , assemble the elders, gather the children, and those that suck the breasts...And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the LORD your God, and none else: and my people shall never be ashamed. And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions" (Joel 2:16,27-28).​

So the ekklesia mentioned at Acts 2:47 is referring to Israel in her religious unity and it is not referring to the Body of Christ.

So, are you saying that Abraham and Isaac and Jacob, and others who were called out by God are the same called out in the body of Christ?

Are the two callings the same?

If the body of Christ is the same called out as the nation of Israel, then why did God bother with sending Jesus Christ?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

So, are you saying that Abraham and Isaac and Jacob, and others who were called out by God are the same called out in the body of Christ?

No, they are not members of the Body of Christ.

Are the two callings the same?

No, the LORD has a purpose for Israel in her religious unity and another purpose for the Body of Christ.

If the body of Christ is the same called out as the nation of Israel, then why did God bother with sending Jesus Christ?

They are not the same. However, in both cases the lord Jesus' death was an absolute necessity.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Jerry, serious question.

You know I don't believe the church of Acts 2 was the Body of Christ.
But why can't we just let them be the first fruits of that group over in Revelation, the 144000?

I guess I don't understand why you feel it is necessary to transfer them into the Body of Christ, later in Acts after Paul comes along?

Thanks

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Jerry, serious question.

You know I don't believe the church of Acts 2 was the Body of Christ.
But why can't we just let them be the first fruits of that group over in Revelation, the 144000?

I guess I don't understand why you feel it is necessary to transfer them into the Body of Christ, later in Acts after Paul comes along?

Here we can see that both Jews and Gentiles are baptized into the Body of Christ:

"For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit" (1 Cor.12:13).​

In this passage Paul uses the pronoun "we" twice and from his introduction in that same epistle we can know that that pronoun is not only referring to those in the church at Corinth but also "all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord":

"Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's" (1 Cor.1:2).​

All of the Jewish believers living in the first century did indeed call on the name of Jesus Christ so therefore all of them belonged to the Body of Christ. Cornelius Stam, the founder of the Berean Bible Society, wrote the following commentary on 1 Corinthians 1:2:

"There are other evidences that the kingdom saints of Paul's day became members of the Body of Christ. In I Corinthians 1:2, Paul addresses his letter to the Corinthian church, 'with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs [those in every place] and ours [those with Paul].' And he says to 'all' these believers 'in every place': 'For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one Body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles' (I Cor. 12:13). How can this be made to exclude the Judean believers?" (Cornelius Stam, Commentary on Galatians [Stevens Point, WI: Worzalla Publishing Co., 1998], 198).​

 

[StanJ]

Here we can see that both Jews and Gentiles are baptized into the Body of Christ:

"For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit" (1 Cor.12:13).
​

In this passage Paul uses the pronoun "we" twice and from his introduction in that same epistle we can know that that pronoun is not only referring to those in the church at Corinth but also "all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord":

"Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's" (1 Cor.1:2).
​

All of the Jewish believers living in the first century did indeed call on the name of Jesus Christ so therefore all of them belonged to the Body of Christ. Cornelius Stam, the founder of the Berean Bible Society, wrote the following commentary on 1 Corinthians 1:2:

"There are other evidences that the kingdom saints of Paul's day became members of the Body of Christ. In I Corinthians 1:2, Paul addresses his letter to the Corinthian church, 'with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs [those in every place] and ours [those with Paul].' And he says to 'all' these believers 'in every place': 'For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one Body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles' (I Cor. 12:13). How can this be made to exclude the Judean believers?" (Cornelius Stam, Commentary on Galatians [Stevens Point, WI: Worzalla Publishing Co., 1998], 198).
​

and what about Gal 3:26-29 (NIV), where in Paul says there is neither Jew nor Gentile, but that ALL are ONE in Christ Jesus. No Jewish church no Gentile church, we ALL as true believers, belong to the Body of Christ.
That body started with Peter's confession of who Jesus was.