ECT The "Church" at Acts 2 Was Not the Body of Christ

[StanJ]

You still have not made even one point that proves that anything I said is wrong. You are totally confused and that is why you are unable to back up your ideas by any Hebrew experts.

See my post in 53 for my response.

 

[jamie]

Then why did they not go to any Gentiles when they were scattered:

Was it because they were doing what Jesus told them to do?

But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth. (Acts 1:8 NKJV)​

Each apostle went to the tribe to which he was assigned.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Just because the message was given first to the Jews and then later to the Gentiles does NOT mean it is two different gospels.

To the Jews first was preached the "good news" (gospel) that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God. And belief in that gospel brings life through being born of God (Jn.20:31; 1 Jn.5:1-5).

Do you deny that?

To the Gentiles was preached the "good news" (gospel) that Jesus died for our sins and believers are "justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus" (Ro.3:24). And those who believe that truth are saved (1 Cor.15:1-3).

Two gospels are mentioned here and both gospels can save independently of the other.

Which of these two gospels do you say doesn't even exist?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

See my post in 53 for my response.

I have already responded to that post:

The congregation is who are gathered, NOT the whole of Israel. Regardless, it doesn't support your assertion about Acts 2.

The "congregation" spoken of at Joel 2:16 is not the Body of Christ and you have given no evidence that it is.

Nobody said Joel's prophecy didn't happened, I said I don't support you assertion because Joel didn't say it was Israel in his prophecy did he?

Let us look at this verse again:

"Gather the people, sanctify the congregation (Qahal), assemble the elders, gather the children, and those that suck the breasts: let the bridegroom go forth of his chamber, and the bride out of her closet" (Joel 2:16).

Here the Hebrew word Qahal is translated "congregation" and the Hebrew word means "the congregation of the people of Israel" (Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon).

Even though you have already been shown this you say that "Joel didn't say it was Israel in his prophecy."

Since you think that you know more than the Bible scholars please quote just one expert on the Hebrew language who says that the word Qahal is referring to the Body of Christ.

I am still waiting for your answer.

Of course the church mentioned at Acts 2 was the same church mentioned at Joel 2:16.

And you had nothing to say about Peter's words here:

"Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, that the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord. And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you" (Acts 3:19-20).​

Sir Robert Anderson offers the following commentary on Peter's words"

"To represent this as Christian doctrine, or the institution of 'a new religion,' is to betray ignorance alike of Judaism and of Christianity. The speakers were Jews--the apostles of One who was Himself 'a minister of the circumcision.' Their hearers were Jews, and as Jews they were addressed. The Pentecostal Church which was based upon the testimony was intensely and altogether Jewish. It was not merely that the converts were Jews, and none but Jews, but that the idea of evangelising Gentiles never was even mooted. When the first great persecution scattered the disciples, and they 'went everywhere preaching the Word,' they preached, we are expressly told, 'to none but to the Jews'."​

"The Jerusalem Church, then, was Jewish. Their Bible was the Jewish Scriptures. The Jewish temple was their house of prayer and common meeting-place. Their beliefs and hopes and words and acts all marked them out as Jews...Nothing was further from the thoughts of these men than 'founding a new religion.' On the contrary, while hailing the rejected Nazarene as their national Messiah, they clung with passionate devotion to the religion of their fathers" (Anderson, The Silence of God [Grand Rapids, MI: Kregel Publications, 1978] pp. 75-76; 77-78).​

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Was it because they were doing what Jesus told them to do?

But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth. (Acts 1:8 NKJV)​

Each apostle went to the tribe to which he was assigned.

Where is your evidence?

 

[StanJ]

I have already responded to that post:

Yes, by parroting the same thing, so I repeated myself in turn.

The "congregation" spoken of at Joel 2:16 is not the Body of Christ and you have given no evidence that it is.

I never said it was, however YOU are trying to assert the one in Acts 2 is the one in Joel 2 when in fact as you say here, it ISN'T.

Since you think that you know more than the Bible scholars please quote just one expert on the Hebrew language who says that the word Qahal is referring to the Body of Christ.

I never said it did Jerry. You have tried to assert that the Greek words for congregation in the NT refers to the OT congregations, and they don't. You seem very lost in your own theory.

Of course the church mentioned at Acts 2 was the same church mentioned at Joel 2:16.

And you had nothing to say about Peter's words here:

"Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, that the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord. And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you" (Acts 3:19-20).
​

Sir Robert Anderson offers the following commentary on Peter's words"

Funny how you contradict yourself in the same post, twice. The congregation in Joel 2 is NOT the same congregation in Acts 2, just as the people in Joel 2 were not the same people in Acts 2. So why do you keep vacillating?

What is there to say...John the Baptist preached the same message, as did many other Apostles. ALL who repented became part of the NT church, the Body of Christ, whose head is Jesus. Not sure why you find this verse so hard to understand?

Well at least I now know where your avatar came from, but regardless, you may be a disciple of Robert Anderson, but I am not, and I don't accept his POV in what you cited, for the reason I have already given. Can I assume you also use the SwordSearcher Bible software?
Please try to support YOUR opinions and theories with your own words and understanding of scripture. I'm not debating Robert Anderson, am I?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Funny how you contradict yourself in the same post, twice. The congregation in Joel 2 is NOT the same congregation in Acts 2, just as the people in Joel 2 were not the same people in Acts 2. So why do you keep vacillating?

You have not proved that, my friend. Your whole argument is based on nothing but assumptions.

First of all, you say that the people in Joel 2 were not the same people in Acts 2. What is said at Joel 2 is a prophecy. And according to that prophecy the people in the future will experience the following:

"Blow the trumpet in Zion, sanctify a fast, call a solemn assembly: Gather the people, sanctify the congregation (ekklesia) , assemble the elders, gather the children, and those that suck the breasts...And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the LORD your God, and none else: and my people shall never be ashamed. And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions" (Joel 2:16,27-28).​

The fulfillment of that prophecy happened at Acts 2 according to Peter:

"For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day. But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams" (Acts 2:16-17).​

But according to you the congregation of Joel 2 is not the same congregation of Acts 2.

You obviously do not even understand Peter's words when he said:

"But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel...I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams​

According to you it was not what was spoken by the prophet Joel.

 

[jamie]

Where is your evidence?

Jesus told the Twelve they would each judge (rule) a tribe of Israel.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Then why did they not go to any Gentiles when they were scattered:

"Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen travelled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to none but unto the Jews only" (Acts 11:19).​

to the Jews first.

Act 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.

LA

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Jesus told the Twelve they would each judge (rule) a tribe of Israel.

That has nothing to do with the fact that when the disciples of Christ were scattered upon the persecution of Stephen they went everywhere preaching to none but the Jews only.

If the church at Acts 2 was the Body of Christ then why did they not preach to the Gentiles?

 

[God's Truth]

To the Jews first was preached the "good news" (gospel) that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God. And belief in that gospel brings life through being born of God (Jn.20:31; 1 Jn.5:1-5).

Do you deny that?

Of course, I do not deny that. However, to believe in Jesus is to believe that he is the Sacrificial Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world.

To the Gentiles was preached the "good news" (gospel) that Jesus died for our sins and believers are "justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus" (Ro.3:24). And those who believe that truth are saved (1 Cor.15:1-3).

That is the same gospel as preached to the Jews. Believe in Jesus for the forgiveness of sins.

Two gospels are mentioned here and both gospels can save independently of the other.

There are not two gospels.

Which of these two gospels do you say doesn't even exist?

They are the same gospel.

Again, the Jews had to believe and obey Jesus who was going to die for their sins, and did die for their sins.

The Gentiles had to believe and obey Jesus that Jesus died for their sins.

 

[God's Truth]

To the Jews first was preached the "good news" (gospel) that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God. And belief in that gospel brings life through being born of God (Jn.20:31; 1 Jn.5:1-5).

Do you deny that?

To the Gentiles was preached the "good news" (gospel) that Jesus died for our sins and believers are "justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus" (Ro.3:24). And those who believe that truth are saved (1 Cor.15:1-3).

Two gospels are mentioned here and both gospels can save independently of the other.

Which of these two gospels do you say doesn't even exist?

We all have to be born again; be born of God.

Being born of God means we received God's Spirit.

When we receive the Holy Spirit, we are washed cleaned and reconciled to God; we now have a new life, we are born again with no sins and with the Spirit of God.

That is for JEW AND GENTILE.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

We all have to be born again; be born of God.

Yes, and as Peter says we are born again by the gospel:

"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God...And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you" (1 Pet.1:23,25).​

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Of course, I do not deny that. However, to believe in Jesus is to believe that he is the Sacrificial Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world.

No, to believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, is not the same good news that He is the Sacrificial Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world.

You are totally confused!

 

[beloved57]

There's only one The Church of God and it is the Body of Christ!

 

[God's Truth]

Yes, and as Peter says we are born again by the gospel:

"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God...And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you" (1 Pet.1:23,25).​

We are born again by the gospel message that saves, and that message is about Jesus dying for the sins that you repent of.

When we repent of our sins, Jesus give you a new born again life because all your sins are cleaned and you are given the Holy Spirit to live with you.

 

[God's Truth]

No, to believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, is not the same good news that He is the Sacrificial Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world.

You are totally confused!

Jesus is the Christ the Sacrificial Lamb of God.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Jesus is the Christ the Sacrificial Lamb of God.

No one disagrees with that but you failed to answer this point:

To believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, is not the same good news that He is the Sacrificial Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world.​

We are born again by the gospel message that saves, and that message is about Jesus dying for the sins that you repent of.

During the Acts period the Jews received life by being born of God by believing that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God:

"But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name" (Jn.20:31).​

Faith only!

 

[God's Truth]

No one disagrees with that but you failed to answer this point:

I have answered you, but you do not consider carefully what I say.

To believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, is not the same good news that He is the Sacrificial Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world.​

Of course, it is the same, for ONLY GOD CAN FORGIVE SINS ONCE AND FOR ALL.

It is sin that separates us from God! See Isaiah 59:2.

It is salvation FOR ALL through the REPENTANCE OF SINS.

See Luke 1:77.

During the Acts period the Jews received life by being born of God by believing that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God:

"But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name" (Jn.20:31).​

Faith only!

That they might have life---through believing Jesus gives REPENTANCE OF SINS!

Only the Lamb of God can do that!

 

[Jerry Shugart]

I have answered you, but you do not consider carefully what I say.

According to what you said you think that the "good news" (gospel) that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, is the same "good news" (gospel) that Jesus died for our sins.

You have lost all touch with reality.

I will no longer waste any more time with you.