Cross Reference
New member
But then, none of the gifts of the Spirit were mentioned as being fruit of any kind by Paul.
Gifts are electives. Fruit is compulsory. This is elementary stuff.
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ECT The "Church" at Acts 2 Was Not the Body of Christ
- Thread starter Jerry Shugart
- Start date
But then, none of the gifts of the Spirit were mentioned as being fruit of any kind by Paul.
Gifts are electives. Fruit is compulsory. This is elementary stuff.
God's Spirit is a gift through whom Jesus did many electives such miracles, wonders and signs which God did through Him.
Electives such as healing or languages are God's work not ours.
Jesus said, "I am the true vine and My Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away and every branch that bears fruit He prunes that it may bear more fruit." (John 15:1-2 NKJV)
Cross Reference
New member
You are all mixed up, son. You need to admit it.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
On the day of Pentecost the believers spoke in tongues "as the Spirit gave them uttrance":
"And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance" (Acts 2:4).
Ok ma'am, you may be right. By the way Cross Reference why aren't you a part of the women's group?
Like I said, it was the Spirit's work, not man's.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Hi , and in Matt 4:17 , Jesus began to PREACH , and to say , Repent for the Kingdon of Heaven is at hand !
gdom of Heaven ?? What is the Kingdom of Heaven ??
dan p
God's Truth
New member
The kingdom of heaven is when you are saved, when you are given the Holy Spirit. Jesus saves us, gives us the Holy Spirit, and at that time we are now in the realm of the Spirit and seated with Jesus in heaven.
Do you need scripture references? I would love to give them to you if you like.
Cross Reference
New member
beloved57
Well-known member
jerry s
Thats a Lie ! When they were being persecuted by the Apostle Paul as he was saul, Paul said that he persecuted the Church of God 1 Cor 15:9
For I am the least of the apostles and do not even deserve to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.
When saul was doing that, Jesus said to him Acts 9:4
4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
Why did Jesus say to saul that he was persecuting Him, when he was persecuting the Church of God ? Its because Christ was the Head of the Church of God His Body, they are One !
Thats a Lie ! When they were being persecuted by the Apostle Paul as he was saul, Paul said that he persecuted the Church of God 1 Cor 15:9
For I am the least of the apostles and do not even deserve to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.
When saul was doing that, Jesus said to him Acts 9:4
4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
Why did Jesus say to saul that he was persecuting Him, when he was persecuting the Church of God ? Its because Christ was the Head of the Church of God His Body, they are One !
I have two initial issues.
- What OT scriptures are you referring to?
- The LXX doesn't use the word you purport, it uses maqhêl, maqhêlâh, which connotes congregation. That is what we term a church today so what's the difference?
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WOW...I have to agree with B57 here. :jawdrop:
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Yes, he said that he persecuted the ekklesia of God. That refers to the Jewish church mentioned here:
The following prophecy was totally in regard to the religious unity of Israel and Israel alone:
"Blow the trumpet in Zion, sanctify a fast, call a solemn assembly: Gather the people, sanctify the congregation (ekklesia) , assemble the elders, gather the children, and those that suck the breasts...And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the LORD your God, and none else: and my people shall never be ashamed. And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions" (Joel 2:16,27-28).
You just assume that there was only one ekklesia in existence during the Acts period.
Hi , and it is because you have never understood what EKKLESIA means , which means a Called ot Assembly and NO WHERE is the Body of Christ mentioned in Acts at ALL !!:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:
DAN P
beloved57
Well-known member
I can only show you truth, but can't make you believe it!
What Joel said has NOTHING to do with the NT Jerry. You try and make connections that DON'T exist. A word is not a doctrine. A congregation is defined by the context of the scripture it is in, not by a completely irrelevant text of scripture.
There IS only ONE church in the NEW covenant, and Jesus spoke of it in Matt 16:18 (NIV). The head of that one and ONLY church/body is Jesus Christ. Col 1:18 (NIV)
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Did you actually read my opening post? If you did you would have seen that the OT Scriptures which I was referring to were found in the second chapter of the book of Job.
You really should read my opening post or else you will not have a clue about the subject of this thread.
The Greek word in the LXX at Joel 2:16 isekklesia. In the Hebrew, the word is Qahal.
Here is what Alfred Edersheim, a Jewish convert to Christianity and a respected Bible scholar, said about those two words::
"Nor would the term 'Church' sound strange in Jewish ears. The same Greek word (ekklesia), as the equivalent of the Hebrew 'Qahal,' 'convocation,' 'the called,' occurs in the LXX. rendering of the Old Testament, and in 'the Wisdom of the Son of Sirach' and was apparently in familiar use at that time. In Hebrew use it referred to Israel, not in their national but in their religious unity" [emphasis added] (Edersheim, The Life and Times of Jesus the Messiah [Grand Rapids, MI: Wm. M. Eerdmans Publishing 1971] Book 3, Chapter 37, p.84).
Now do you agree that at Joel 2:16 the word translated "congregation" is "Qahal"? Use as many words as you like in answer to my question.
And do you agree that in the Greek Old Testament the word "Qahal" is translated "ekklesia"? Again, use as many words as you like when answering my question.
another comment from someone who has NO IDEA what the Greek says or conveys.