ECT The "Church" at Acts 2 Was Not the Body of Christ

[God's Truth]

What Luke doesn't say is that John received the gift of the Holy Ghost. The gift is eternal life.

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
The evidence is speaking in tongues.

John the baptizer had eternal life.

 

[God's Truth]

No, filled with holy spirit:

"for he shall be great in the sight of the Lord. And wine and intoxicant may he under no circumstances be drinking, and with holy spirit shall he be filled while still of his mother's womb" (Lk.1:15; CLV).​

Those who have the Holy Spirit are also filled with the Holy Spirit when they concentrate on the Holy Spirit.

 

[StanJ]

Hi , and then prove me wrong where the Present Tenses , Voices and Moods are used

I HAVE, but people of your ilk don't learn, as they THINK they know everything, or are so used to prevaricating that they don't actually KNOW real truth anymore.

 

[StanJ]

Absolutely not, Stan. I've not taken issue with your understanding of the sequence of events, nor the meaning, for that matter. Since there are varying interpretations, though, of both, I outlined the events of Acts One and Two just for the purpose of mutual understanding of the sequence of events.
I'm content to leave the interpretations open, but posted that summary in the spirit of, "Wait a minute. Let's get clear on the sequence of events that occurred during that fateful year of the Jewish High Holy Days. I have used that outline in Sunday teaching,
as a lay member.

For example, there is debate here as to the right understanding of The Body of Christ, in the sense of the church. That's fine, let the debates go on. If I have the sequence wrong, just let me know, PLZ.

No, which is why I asked if I missed something...I saw nothing you stated to be incorrect or out of line. :thumb:

 

[StanJ]

If the New Covenant is in force now then this passage which speaks specifically of the new Covenant would have already happened:

"Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more" (Jer.31:31-34).
​

If the New Covenant has been in force since the first century then why does this prophecy concerning it remain unfulfilled?

THAT is what Jesus brought. As He states in Matt 15:24 (NIV)
Then He commissioned others to extend that to the ALL nations in Matt 28:19-20 (NIV) and Acts 9:15 (NIV). This is the Good News of Jesus for ALL men, not just for Israel.

 

[oatmeal]

John the baptizer had eternal life.

Indeed, but he did not receive eternal life as a gift.

The works of Jesus Christ paid the price for it so now it is a gift, not earned

 

[Jerry Shugart]

THAT is what Jesus brought. As He states in Matt 15:24 (NIV)
Then He commissioned others to extend that to the ALL nations in Matt 28:19-20 (NIV) and Acts 9:15 (NIV). This is the Good News of Jesus for ALL men, not just for Israel.

Why did you quote my passage about the New Covenant at Jeremiah 31:31-and then just ignore it?

Do you believe that all those from the house of Judah and the house of Israel know the Lord and have their sins forgiven?"

"Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more" (Jer.31:31-34).​

It is useless to try to have an intelligent discussion with you because you refuse to consider what I say. You just read it and then ignore it.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Those who have the Holy Spirit are also filled with the Holy Spirit when they concentrate on the Holy Spirit.

Being filled with holy spirit is not the same as being filled with the Holy Spirit. No doubt that he was quickened by the Holy Spirit but He was not filled by the Holy Spirit.

 

[iamaberean]

What about the lord Jesus' words here which He spoke before He was crucified:

"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).​

In this verse the Greek word translated "believes" and the Greek word translated "has" are both in the "present" tense.

In The Blue Letter Bible we read the following meaning of the present tense:

"The present tense represents a simple statement of fact or reality viewed as occurring in actual time. In most cases this corresponds directly with the English present tense."​

Therefore, John 5:24 is saying that those who were believing at the time the Lord Jesus spoke those words had already received eternal life. That is what is meant as something being "viewed as occuring in actual time."

So those who believed had eternal life before the Cross.

Jesus is God and his word is the bible, so believing in Jesus and hearing, knowing what he says, are things that must be done before one could have eternal life. Not just one scripture or one statement from Jesus constitutes a complete understanding of God's word. Believing also includes what Jesus told Nicodemus, that he must be born again or he could not enter into the kingdom of God. Even that is not complete understanding of God's word.

 

[StanJ]

Why did you quote my passage about the New Covenant at Jeremiah 31:31-and then just ignore it?

Do you believe that all those from the house of Judah and the house of Israel know the Lord and have their sins forgiven?"

"Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more" (Jer.31:31-34).
​

It is useless to try to have an intelligent discussion with you because you refuse to consider what I say. You just read it and then ignore it.

Sorry Jerry, must have forgot to actually write down my reply.

Bottom line is there is no time frame for completion of this, and Rev 7 & 14 shows what God will do to fulfill this. That is what the 144,000 Jewish virgin male evangelists are for. To win the nation of Israel for the LORD.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Jesus is God and his word is the bible, so believing in Jesus and hearing, knowing what he says, are things that must be done before one could have eternal life. Not just one scripture or one statement from Jesus constitutes a complete understanding of God's word. Believing also includes what Jesus told Nicodemus, that he must be born again or he could not enter into the kingdom of God. Even that is not complete understanding of God's word.

Are you not aware that a person is born again when he believes the gospel?

"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God... And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you" (1 Pet.1:23,25).​

We are also saved by believing the gospel:

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek" (Ro.1:16).​

 

[God's Truth]

Being filled with holy spirit is not the same as being filled with the Holy Spirit. No doubt that he was quickened by the Holy Spirit but He was not filled by the Holy Spirit.

You make no sense. Those given the Holy Spirit are baptized with the Holy Spirit and they are filled with the Holy Spirit.

 

[God's Truth]

Indeed, but he did not receive eternal life as a gift.

The works of Jesus Christ paid the price for it so now it is a gift, not earned

John the baptizer received the Holy Spirit even before he was born. What do you think he did in the womb to earn the Holy Spirit? He was chosen to be the forerunner. God knew that John would live and die preparing the way for the Lord.

We must obey Jesus to receive the Holy Spirit. It is a gift given to those who obey. It is a reward, a gift, and inheritance, and it is the crown.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Sorry Jerry, must have forgot to actually write down my reply.

Bottom line is there is not time frame for completion of this, and Rev 7 & 14 shows what God will do to fulfill this. That is what the 144,000 Jewish virgin male evangelists are for. To win the nation of Israel for the LORD.

The promise of the New Covenant is only given to the house of Israel and the house of Judah. If they have not yet received the blessing then the New Covenantt is no longer in effect.

It was in effect on the day of Pentecost. And then Peter offered the kingdom to the nation of Israel and they rejected it.

Then the Lord began a new program and chose Paul to be the Apostle of the Gentiles and thus began a dispensation which had nothing to do with the prophecies of the OT--the "dispensation of the mystery" (Eph.3:9; ASV).

We are now living in that dispensation and during this time our blessings have nothing to do with anything described in the OT, including the New Covenant promised to Israel.

 

[God's Truth]

The promise of the New Covenant is only given to the house of Israel and the house of Judah. If they have not yet received the blessing then the New Covenantt is no longer in effect.

If you come to Jesus to be saved, you must agree to the conditions of the covenant. You must believe and obey the conditions of the covenant. You must believe in the shed blood of Jesus on the cross, and you must obey his teachings.

The blood of the covenant is Jesus' shed blood on the cross. Are you in the covenant or not? If you are not, then you are not saved.

It was in effect on the day of Pentecost. And then Peter offered the kingdom to the nation of Israel and they rejected it.

There was a remnant of Jews saved. The kingdom was not just offered to The Gentiles because the nation as a whole rejected it. It was always the plan that Jesus would die for the sins of the whole world.

Then the Lord began a new program and chose Paul to be the Apostle of the Gentiles and thus began a dispensation which had nothing to do with the prophecies of the OT--the "dispensation of the mystery" (Eph.3:9; ASV).

I can hardly believe that you could say something like this. The plan for salvation to be through faith in Jesus was made before the creation of the world.

We are now living in that dispensation and during this time our blessings have nothing to do with anything described in the OT, including the New Covenant promised to Israel.

This is pathetic.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

If you come to Jesus to be saved, you must agree to the conditions of the covenant. You must believe and obey the conditions of the covenant. You must believe in the shed blood of Jesus on the cross, and you must obey his teachings.

Here we read that those who "believe" have everlasting life and will not perish:

"For God loved the world in this way: He gave His One and Only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life" (Jn.3:15).​

Here we read that it is faith which brings eternal life and the assurance no one who believe will ever perish.

But you refuse to believe that because it doesn't fit your man made ideas.

 

[God's Truth]

Here we read that those who "believe" have everlasting life and will not perish:

"For God loved the world in this way: He gave His One and Only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life" (Jn.3:15).​

Here we read that it is faith which brings eternal life and the assurance no one who believe will ever perish.

But you refuse to believe that because it doesn't fit your man made ideas.

There is only one gospel. We have to believe and obey. That is the way covenants are made.

If you do not have living faith in Jesus Christ, then you have not entered the covenant.

Jesus taught believe and repent, and so did Paul.

Acts 20:21 I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus.

Acts 26:20 First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and to the Gentiles also, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds.

 

[God's Truth]

Here we read that those who "believe" have everlasting life and will not perish:

"For God loved the world in this way: He gave His One and Only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life" (Jn.3:15).​

Here we read that it is faith which brings eternal life and the assurance no one who believe will ever perish.

But you refuse to believe that because it doesn't fit your man made ideas.

Jesus even taught repentance of sins after he died and was at the right hand of God in heaven:

Revelation 3:3 Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; obey it, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.

Revelation 9:21 Furthermore, they did not repent of their murders, of their magic spells, of their sexual immorality, or of their stealing.

Revelation 16:11 They blasphemed the God of heaven because of their sufferings and because of their sores, but nevertheless they still refused to repent of their deeds.



Jesus is the Lord of all. We are not to say, "Did God really say to us ___?"

There in no more Jew and Gentile. Jesus is God over all.

 

[God's Truth]

Here we read that those who "believe" have everlasting life and will not perish:

"For God loved the world in this way: He gave His One and Only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life" (Jn.3:15).​

Here we read that it is faith which brings eternal life and the assurance no one who believe will ever perish.

But you refuse to believe that because it doesn't fit your man made ideas.

Paul not only taught believe and repent TO BE SAVED (Acts 20:21, Acts 26:20), but he also taught that we should continue to OBEY AFTER WE ARE SAVED:

Romans 13:14, Galatians 5:16, and Colossians 3:12, Romans 8:13, Galatians 6:7, 1 Corinthians 6:9, and so many more.

 

[God's Truth]

There are not two different gospels. There is one gospel.

Believe and obey Jesus.