The catastrophic tsunami in Asia was....

[Nathon Detroit]

Originally posted by granite1010

Useful, Sozo, as always. You have anything serious to say or are you gonna keep chucking turds all night?

As if you are looking for serious responses! :ha:

granite1010 you are a fraud and everyone knows it. You came on TOL acting like a Christian and then pretended that you rejected your "faith" but we all know better. You are a joke and a fool and deserve little more than being mocked and ridiculed.

 

[Sozo]

Originally posted by granite1010

Useful, Sozo, as always. You have anything serious to say or are you gonna keep chucking turds all night?

:chuckle:

As long as you keep feasting on 'em, I'll keep on chuckin' 'em!

 

[Granite]

"Only numbskulls think that God ordained the Tsunami so you can ask them OK?"

I wasn't interested in just those who held that position. And if you had reading comprehension beyond a Jesus Freak Pew Groveler's level, you would know that. Or pay attention. One of the two.

Then there's this gem by Knight:

"As if you are looking for serious responses!"

An altar to the UNKNOWN GOD? Oh, you people! I am so outta here. I got a church in Corinth and I'll go pack my bags and preach to the choir.

I mean, seriously, Knight. Until some professing Christian here actually answers me, unlike the love fest between you and Sozo here, who's to say I'm wrong? And has anybody here really tackled the issue, namely, that God ordained this, let it happen, or was sleeping on the job and got taken by surprise? Answer: nope, not yet. There has to be a reason why.

"You came on TOL acting like a Christian..."

Ah, yes. A five-point Calvinist postmillenialist, which I was a year ago.

"...and then pretended that you rejected your 'faith' but we all know better. You are a joke and a fool and deserve little more than being mocked and ridiculed."

Who's "we"? If it's you and Sozo in heaven I'll take a front and center seat in hell, thank you kindly. Knight, you're a smart guy. You really buy into this Rube Goldberg BS? That for close to a solid year I "masqueraded" as a Christian, then decided to drop the routine? For what gain, and for why? What, exactly, am I trying to pull here? The only person close to this level of paranoia was crythvn, the anti-semite bigot who thought I was ashamed of being half-Jewish (which I shared with people when asked, by the way). C'mon. Don't join the Evil Jew Conspiracy Theory Club, or anything.

So far nobody here's answered my questions, which isn't unusual. And instead I get this conspiracy theory routine instead. When I showed up at TOL I thought one thing. Now I think another. If a person changing their beliefs rocks the little worlds of some posters out there, you people need to get out more.

 

[Prisca]

granite1010, “If this was not an incident caused directly by God himself, he either was caught off guard or was so indifferent that he just let things take their course. Gee. Thanks. They happen to be brown-skinned pagans, anyway, so that makes it easier. 100,000 plus souls and counting, all sent to hell in the blink of an eye right after Christmas.

Perhaps God let things take their course, but was also in no way indifferent. Sort of like raising kids. We can’t and don’t protect them from everything, even when we know bad things can happen to them. And we can’t even sort everything out in the end the way God can.

Because of His justice and mercy, we can know that no one ends up in hell that doesn’t belong there. Many of those who perished called out to God in their final moments. Others, who survived, will turn to Him for help. Still others may lose their faith. Many will forever live apart from the God they never cared to know in the first place.

 

[Z Man]

Originally posted by drbrumley

You said God created the physics of it, thereby if your milk spoils, its God's fault for allowing your milk to spoil.

So, in the case of the tsunami's, God in your view, created the Tsunami directly or allowed the tsunami because He created the physics of it, or something to that effect. Thereby, any way you look at it, God directly killed up to 100,000 with this, or he allowed it. Am I close?

No, you're right on. :thumb:

 

[Z Man]

Originally posted by Knight

Yes... it does matter. That is one crummy translation.

Then don't read it...

Why would you say that?

Is it because you inherently believe in freewill?

Why would you ask me to do something that you claim only God can do? :think:

It was a figure of speech Knight. I was not questioning your salvation or anything; I believe you're saved. I was not suggesting that you 'surrender' your will to Him. I was simply stating that you should ease your mind with the comfort of knowing that God is in complete control. Stop trying to hold on to control over your life, because it's all done in vain.


Nice try though. You totally and conviently decided to not respond to anything more important that I had posted concerning predestination. You are becoming famous for that; running whenever your views are challenged and you have no direct response. Please go back and do try to muster up a better response to post #54. If you don't, I'll just assume that you either agree or that you realize you really can't argue with Scripture...

 

[Z Man]

Originally posted by Knight

Only numbskulls think that God ordained the Tsunami so you can ask them OK?

Those 'numbskulls' seem to be the only ones with Biblical knowledge on this 'theology' website:

Job 26:12, 14
He stirs up the sea with His power, And by His understanding He breaks up the storm. ... But the thunder of His power who can understand?

Job 38:4-11
"Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? Tell Me, if you have understanding. Who determined its measurements? Surely you know! Or who stretched the line upon it? To what were its foundations fastened? Or who laid its cornerstone, when the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? Or who shut in the sea with doors, when it burst forth and issued from the womb; When I made the clouds its garment, and thick darkness its swaddling band; When I fixed My limit for it, and set bars and doors; when I said, 'This far you may come, but no farther, and here your proud waves must stop!'

Psalms 33:7
He gathers the waters of the sea together as a heap; He lays up the deep in storehouses.

Psalms 89:9; 93:4,5
You rule the raging of the sea; when its waves rise, You still them.

The Lord on high is mightier than the noise of many waters, than the mighty waves of the sea. The sea is His, for He made it; and His hands formed the dry land.

 

[Delmar]

Originally posted by Knight

I can see that connection.

Although this wasn't a specific judgment against a specific group of people.

Correct! A random event, set in motion by a specific judgment long ago.

 

[Frank Ernest]

Originally posted by Wamba :thefool:

I wonder how many people seriously think it's "A conspiracy staged by the Bush Administration" :think:

I think we'll find out shortly, now that you have posed the question.

 

[STONE]

Originally posted by Knight
OK... so what are you saying? I am still confused about your view.
Was the tsunami God's handiwork or not?

God created the Earth and it's systems; tsunamis, quakes, tornatos, hurricanes, lightning, torrential rains, and all natural events that can do damage are included.
This is no secret; I assume you are already aware of this.

Does this make God uncaring because His world can be distructive?
No. Man's wicked ways separate him from God's protecton.

Why do believers die still? Because the last enemy, death, has not been destroyed yet (death is reserved for destruction), but will be at His coming for those who believe.

There is reason throughout God's creation, though the hard heart denies this, or denies God, based on their own judgement and lack of understanding.

 

[Rolf Ernst]

Granite1010--some people are never reconciled to the fact that "the wages of sin is death." They still hear the sound of satan's lie in their ear--"you shall not surely die."

Others have never really studied the Bible. They have likely done nothing more than listen to syrupy, sappy sermons about a God whose first purpose is to make everyone comfortable. Many preachers teach that because if they preached that there really is a God who destroyed the earth and all in it with the exception of Noah and his family, their congregation would leave.
Nevertheless, the wish of some men for a God who does not govern the world in righteousness and execute His judgements will never be fulfilled.

If they think it is all about people suffering God's wrath because they are brown skinned, they should stick around--at least until God's longsuffering toward them is at an end. Their day will come, either one at a time or by multiplied thousands at a time. If God chooses to carry away hundreds of thousands at a time rather than individually, oh vain man, WHAT IS THAT TO YOU? WHO MADE you THE GOVERNOR OF THE UNIVERSE? "He dsoes according to His will in the armies of heaven and among the inhabitants of the earth, and none can stay His hand or say unto Him, what are you doing?"

Of course, the blasphemous and the unschooled on the TOL forum will still think it is their right to either question Him or else deny the reality of His judgements in the earth.

 

[Granite]

Originally posted by Becky

Perhaps God let things take their course, but was also in no way indifferent. Sort of like raising kids. We can’t and don’t protect them from everything, even when we know bad things can happen to them. And we can’t even sort everything out in the end the way God can.

Because of His justice and mercy, we can know that no one ends up in hell that doesn’t belong there. Many of those who perished called out to God in their final moments. Others, who survived, will turn to Him for help. Still others may lose their faith. Many will forever live apart from the God they never cared to know in the first place.

The parent analogy breaks down--like most--because parents don't happen to possess omniscience or omnipotence (despite what they might tell you).

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Originally posted by Z Man
I was not suggesting that you 'surrender' your will to Him. I was simply stating that you should ease your mind with the comfort of knowing that God is in complete control. Stop trying to hold on to control over your life, because it's all done in vain.

:ha: There you go again! Z Man cannot contain his own ingerent belief in my freewill.

Why do you keep asking me to do things that you preach I have no control over?

You ask me to....
"Stop trying to hold on to control over your life"

That is just so silly coming from you! If I am indeed attempting to "control my own life" wouldn't that be something that God is making me do? (according to you that is)

Wouldn't it be more appropriate for you to ask God...
"God stop letting Knight attempt to control his own life."

But even that would be a contradiction in your own theology wouldn't it? Because you claim that God cannot be moved by prayer therefore you asking God to do something would also be meaningless.

So I ask again....
Z Man.... why do you bother to ask me to do something that you preach I cannot do?

 

[Z Man]

Originally posted by Knight

:ha: There you go again! Z Man cannot contain his own ingerent belief in my freewill.

Why do you keep asking me to do things that you preach I have no control over?

You ask me to....
"Stop trying to hold on to control over your life"

That is just so silly coming from you! If I am indeed attempting to "control my own life" wouldn't that be something that God is making me do? (according to you that is)

Wouldn't it be more appropriate for you to ask God...
"God stop letting Knight attempt to control his own life."

But even that would be a contradiction in your own theology wouldn't it? Because you claim that God cannot be moved by prayer therefore you asking God to do something would also be meaningless.

So I ask again....
Z Man.... why do you bother to ask me to do something that you preach I cannot do?

Knight,

In your own words, you're a flaming idiot. We've been over this a zillion times, and yet you still act like we've just met and you have no idea what I believe. Your thoughts, your intentions of your heart, your plans - they're all yours. God did not 'implant' them into your brain. I simply stated that you should ease your own mind of thinking that you are in control. I am not suggesting that you actually hand over control to God, because I know that in reality, He already has it. I just want you to understand that. When you do, you'll feel a lot better.

Asking you to ease your mind over the vain thought that you have control is not out of your grasp.

 

[Z Man]

P.S. Why do you ignore the important debate about predestination?

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Originally posted by Z Man

P.S. Why do you ignore the important debate about predestination?

This last volley is far more pertinent.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Originally posted by Z Man

Knight,

In your own words, you're a flaming idiot.

Why thank you.

You continue...

We've been over this a zillion times, and yet you still act like we've just met and you have no idea what I believe.

When I crush an opponent I do not abandon my winning argument.

---

Z Man cannot type one paragraph without contradicting himself!

Wanna see?

Get ready now, this is gonna be fun!

Pay close attention now folks...

Z Man's Statement #1.....

Your thoughts, your intentions of your heart, your plans - they're all yours. God did not 'implant' them into your brain.

Z Man's Statement #2.... Keep in mind this in the same paragraph as statement #1! (amazing but true)

I am not suggesting that you actually hand over control to God, because I know that in reality, He already has it.

So what have we learned once again about Z Man?

A. He proves that he inherently believes in freewill and cannot even disguise it when he talks.

B. His theology is so perverted that he cannot even type a single paragraph with contradicting himself.

 

[JRHoffman]

Two things of interest came out concerning this tragic event:
1) the animals knew enough to flee from the coming flood. Very few died from the tsunami.
2) the warning was sent to many of the countries that the flood was coming but it was ignored.
In both cases the an early warning system in place. The first in nature and the second an invention of man. The animals listened, man did not, which has been the case since the creation of man. God told Adam, "do not eat of the fruit or you will surely die." But he ignored the warning and death entered the world.
Noah built the ark and for 100 years the peoples of the earth had a chance to build and escape the coming judgment but they ignored the warning and laughed at Noah.
120,000+ people passed into eternity this past week many with out Christ because the warning was ignored.
Scripture tells us another flood is coming a flood of fire. When this flood comes billions of people will pass into eternity without Christ because they ignored the warning.
Granite1010 may well be one of them. He cries that no one has the answers but on that day when he kneels in the presence of God he will understand that he was given the answers. They were just not the ones he wanted to hear. The warnings and the answers are clear. Trust Christ as Lord and Savior and live, reject Him and die. That might not be what the world desires to hear but it is the truth and it is the answer.

 

[Shadowx]

God is pleased with everything...

God is pleased with everything...

Isaiah 46:9 Remember the former things of old, For I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like Me, 10 Declaring the end from the beginning, And from ancient times things that are not yet done, Saying, ‘My counsel shall stand, And I will do all My pleasure,’

It was the New Living Translation. But does it matter? Both versions say the same thing.

Zman said: "Why wouldn't it? Isn't everything His? He is the supreme Sovereign God, and, news flash, you're not in control - He is. Surrender to Him already, for pete's sake!

Yes, you like that idea, it makes you fill more comfortable with your sins.

You think he was pleased that mankind became utterly wicked pre flood? Was God jumping for joy, in pleasure, quoting your Calvinist writers who you got that verse from?
Or was he grieved about it ...wishing he had never made man...?

Was God pleased with the following? Did he wish for it?
O I wish David would give occasion to my enemies to blaspheme me..., because it pleases me..

2Sa 11:27 And when the mourning was past, David sent and fetched her to his house, and she became his wife, and bare him a son. But the thing that David had done displeased the LORD.

Psa 5:4 For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee.

Is God pleased with wickedness, because it's directly part of what he wishes?

Mar 10:14 But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased , and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.

Was God pleased that the disciples disobeyed Him here? Did he wish this? God the son is much displeased with God the father's decree.., that the disciples should hinder children..

God often displeased with his hand puppets...

Isa 59:15 Yea, truth faileth; and he that departeth from evil maketh himself a prey: and the LORD saw it, and it displeased him that there was no judgment.

Was God pleased here? Is this part of his wishes?
Zmans interp, "..The Lord saw that there was no justice or truth and He was much pleased with it, because he is pleased with everything HE DOES and wished it all to happen"

He only does that which glorifies Him and it REALLY glorifies Him when truth fails..and there is no judgment. :nono:

Those who flee from wickedness are persecuted by those who don't...and judgment favors the wicked..(God doesn't like it..., but that's what he wants..I can see it now, God shaking his head in displeasure and frustration..over his own will..)

Zec 1:2 The LORD hath been sore displeased with your fathers.

Was God pleased here Z?

Zec 1:3 Therefore say thou unto them, Thus saith the LORD of hosts; Turn ye unto me, saith the LORD of hosts, and I will turn unto you, saith the LORD of hosts.
Zec 1:4 Be ye not as your fathers, unto whom the former prophets have cried, saying, Thus saith the LORD of hosts; Turn ye now from your evil ways, and from your evil doings: but they did not hear, nor hearken unto me saith the LORD.

Was God pleased that they didn't listen to his voice? Oh wait..they were listening to His "Secretly decreed" voice and he was upset with them for obeying it..

Zman you are.. ..:kookoo:

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Re: God is pleased with everything...

Re: God is pleased with everything...

Originally posted by Shadowx

Zman said: "Why wouldn't it? Isn't everything His? He is the supreme Sovereign God, and, news flash, you're not in control - He is. Surrender to Him already, for pete's sake!

Yes, you like that idea, it makes you fill more comfortable with your sins.

You think he was pleased that mankind became utterly wicked pre flood? Was God jumping for joy, in pleasure, quoting your Calvinist writers who you got that verse from?
Or was he grieved about it ...wishing he had never made man...?

Was God pleased with the following? Did he wish for it?
O I wish David would give occasion to my enemies to blaspheme me..., because it pleases me..

2Sa 11:27 And when the mourning was past, David sent and fetched her to his house, and she became his wife, and bare him a son. But the thing that David had done displeased the LORD.

Psa 5:4 For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee.

Is God pleased with wickedness, because it's directly part of what he wishes?

Mar 10:14 But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased , and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.

Was God pleased that the disciples disobeyed Him here? Did he wish this? God the son is much displeased with God the father's decree.., that the disciples should hinder children..

God often displeased with his hand puppets...

Isa 59:15 Yea, truth faileth; and he that departeth from evil maketh himself a prey: and the LORD saw it, and it displeased him that there was no judgment.

Was God pleased here? Is this part of his wishes?
Zmans interp, "..The Lord saw that there was no justice or truth and He was much pleased with it, because he is pleased with everything HE DOES and wished it all to happen"

He only does that which glorifies Him and it REALLY glorifies Him when truth fails..and there is no judgment. :nono:

Those who flee from wickedness are persecuted by those who don't...and judgment favors the wicked..(God doesn't like it..., but that's what he wants..I can see it now, God shaking his head in displeasure and frustration..over his own will..)

Zec 1:2 The LORD hath been sore displeased with your fathers.

Was God pleased here Z?

Zec 1:3 Therefore say thou unto them, Thus saith the LORD of hosts; Turn ye unto me, saith the LORD of hosts, and I will turn unto you, saith the LORD of hosts.
Zec 1:4 Be ye not as your fathers, unto whom the former prophets have cried, saying, Thus saith the LORD of hosts; Turn ye now from your evil ways, and from your evil doings: but they did not hear, nor hearken unto me saith the LORD.

Was God pleased that they didn't listen to his voice? Oh wait..they were listening to His "Secretly decreed" voice and he was upset with them for obeying it..

Zman you are.. ..:kookoo:

:first: POTD