The catastrophic tsunami in Asia was....

[BillyBob]

I just heard a story on the news about a woman who was swept into the water with her 2 children. She clung to both of them at first but felt herself about to go under and realized she had to let go of one of her boys. She let go of the 5 year old and held on to her toddler. Another floundering woman nearby grabbed the 5 year old but also had to let go.






The boy survived by clinging to a door!


Amazing.

 

[STONE]

Originally posted by Knight
Christians do in fact die. They even die of plagues and evil does occasionally befall them.

Also these...

"I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men:"

"As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent."

"And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:"

"The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death."

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Originally posted by Z Man

Not directly. But He did create the physics to make your milk spoil if left on the counter for a specific amount of time.

I think you just made Sozo's point.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Originally posted by STONE

Also these...

"I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men:"

"As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent."

"And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:"

"The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death."

OK... so your argument is that everyone that was killed in the Tsunami was an enemy of God or someone who was due judgment?

And they all just happened to be in the same place at the same time?

Wow! That's pretty wacky!

 

[drbrumley]

It's amazing to me how scripture is twisted to somehow support these views.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Originally posted by Z Man

It was the New Living Translation. But does it matter? Both versions say the same thing.

Yes... it does matter. That is one crummy translation.

You continue

Why wouldn't it? Isn't everything His? He is the supreme Sovereign God, and, news flash, you're not in control - He is. Surrender to Him already, for pete's sake!

Why would you say that?

Is it because you inherently believe in freewill?

Why would you ask me to do something that you claim only God can do? :think:

 

[Sozo]

Originally posted by Z Man

Not directly. But He did create the physics to make your milk spoil if left on the counter for a specific amount of time.

Therefore, in your way of thinking, God predestined me to leave the milk on the counter?

Why did God not simply create the physics for the earth to occasionally have earthquakes?

 

[BillyBob]

I don't understand how anybody can deny freewill. To do so would mean that God predetermines who will burn in Hell and who won't, regardless of the actions of the individual. If it has already been determined that you are going to Hell, what is the point of evangelism, the Bible or Jesus, it will do no good and have no effect. If it has already been determined that you are going to heaven, there is no need for repentance or salvation.

And why would God sentence some people to eternal death while giving others eternal life without allowing a choice in the matter. How does he decide, does he roll dice?

The whole thing falls apart.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Originally posted by BillyBob

I don't understand how anybody can deny freewill. To do so would mean that God predetermines who will burn in Hell and who won't. If it has already been determined that you are going to Hell, what is the point of evangelism, the Bible or Jesus, it will do no good and have no effect. If it has already been determined that you are going to heaven, there is no need for repentance or salvation.

And why would God sentence some people to eternal death while giving others eternal life without allowing a choice in the matter.

The whole thing falls apart.

It makes you wonder why God would instruct us to....

Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. - 2 Timothy 4:2

And how about pray BillyBob? What is the point of praying if it has no ability to affect God?

Hear my prayer, O LORD, Give ear to my supplications! In Your faithfulness answer me, And in Your righteousness. - Psalms 143:1

I agree with you BillyBob! :up:

 

[STONE]

Originally posted by Knight
Christians do in fact die. They even die of plagues and evil does occasionally befall them.

Originally posted by STONE
Also (consider) these...
"I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men:"
"As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent."
"And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:"
"The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death."

Originally posted by Knight
OK... so your argument is that everyone that was killed in the Tsunami was an enemy of God or someone who was due judgment?
And they all just happened to be in the same place at the same time?
Wow! That's pretty wacky!

That has nothing to do with my point.
How would you interpret the scriptures quoted above?
-Do you think believers are not corrected by their Father?
-Do you think believers are not appointed once to die?
-Do you think believers death is not the last enemy to be destroyed?

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Originally posted by STONE

That has nothing to do with my point.
How would you interpret the scriptures quoted above?
-Do you think believers are not corrected by their Father?

In today's dispensation? Believers are only corrected through God's word.

You continue...

-Do you think believers are not appointed once to die?

Yes. And therefore what?

You continue...

-Do you think believers death is not the last enemy to be destroyed?

You lost me.

What does any of this have to do with the Tsunami in Asia?

 

[STONE]

To clarify-
#1: God does protect his children.
#2: There are times when believers suffer or are martyred for the benefit of the Gospel.
#3: God does correct His children; suffering may be involved.
#4: Believers do still die.

How does this relate to the tsunami? Even if a believer dies, that does not mean that they weren't under God's protection and correction throughout their life. Nor does it mean that God couldn't have chosen to save a believer had He chosen to.

"God is destroying people" or "God has nothing to do with life's events" are not the only two choices. But his workings are made known through the scriptures.

Originally posted by Knight
In today's dispensation...Believers are only corrected through God's word.

I am unaware of any scripture that hints at believers are only corrected through God's Word.
Please post that scripture if you could.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Originally posted by STONE

To clarify-
#1: God does protect his children.
#2: There are times when believers suffer or are martyred for the benefit of the Gospel.
#3: God does correct His children; suffering may be involved.
#4: Believers do still die.

How does this relate to the tsunami? Even if a believer dies, that does not mean that they weren't under God's protection and correction throughout their life. Nor does it mean that God couldn't have chosen to save a believer had He chosen to.

"God is destroying people" or "God has nothing to do with life's events" are not the only two choices. But his workings are made known through the scriptures.

OK... so what are you saying? I am still confused about your view.

Was the tsunami God's handiwork or not?

 

[Granite]

It seems to me that a lot of smoke is being blown on this thread.

Christians have three options:

God allowed this to happen;

God destined this to happen;

God didn't know it was going to happen.

That's it. These are the choices allowed by the Christian mindset. None of them are terribly comforting or satisfactory. Having "God" in the picture just complicates things, frankly. And if this is indeed a random, freak occurrence, as most here believe, there's no advantage in approaching this calamity from a Christian angle. I mean, how hypocritical could you possibly be, in praying for the families of the victims? Your God made this or let this happen, baby. And then there's people with the gall to send prayers out to the victims.

If this was not an incident caused directly by God himself, he either was caught off guard or was so indifferent that he just let things take their course. Gee. Thanks. They happen to be brown-skinned pagans, anyway, so that makes it easier. 100,000 plus souls and counting, all sent to hell in the blink of an eye right after Christmas.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Originally posted by granite1010

It seems to me that a lot of smoke is being blown on this thread.

Christians have three options:

God allowed this to happen;

God destined this to happen;

God didn't know it was going to happen.

That's it. These are the choices allowed by the Christian mindset. None of them are terribly comforting or satisfactory.

Tsunami's generally are not very comforting.

You continue...

Having "God" in the picture just complicates things, frankly. And if this is indeed a random, freak occurrence, as most here believe, there's no advantage in approaching this calamity from a Christian angle. I mean, how hypocritical could you possibly be, in praying for the families of the victims? Your God made this or let this happen, baby. And then there's people with the gall to send prayers out to the victims.

Of all the nerve!!!

God can and does comfort those that desire His comfort. God can also give people wisdom in such situations. These are the things that prayer can affect.

If this was not an incident caused directly by God himself, he either was caught off guard or was so indifferent that he just let things take their course. Gee. Thanks. They happen to be brown-skinned pagans, anyway, so that makes it easier. 100,000 plus souls and counting, all sent to hell in the blink of an eye right after Christmas.

I would love to comment on your paragraph but it's more fun to just call you a flaming idiot so that's what I decided to do.

granite1010 you are indeed a flaming idiot.

 

[Sozo]

Originally posted by granite1010

And if this is indeed a random, freak occurrence, as most here believe, there's no advantage in approaching this calamity from a Christian angle.

I have not seen one person give him the credit. I know he claims to be able to do exorcisms, but I doubt that he can cause earthquakes. :freak:

 

[Granite]

"God can and does comfort those that desire His comfort. God can also give people wisdom in such situations. These are the things that prayer can affect."

Ah. So, those in Asia who were killed, injured, and maimed either weren't asking for his comfort--and got creamed--or were just the victims of dumb, stupid luck. Question: why the world would someone who is now homeless, family dead and possessions washed out to sea, want to pray to the deity who just caused this destruction? "Lord...you either directly caused this tragedy and killed my family; you let it happen, and didn't intervene; or, this caught you by surprise. Either way, help me out." Why the world would a vindictive, or incompetant, or disinterested deity be anyone these people would want to beseech?

Oh, and here's the kicker.

I said: If this was not an incident caused directly by God himself, he either was caught off guard or was so indifferent that he just let things take their course. Gee. Thanks. They happen to be brown-skinned pagans, anyway, so that makes it easier. 100,000 plus souls and counting, all sent to hell in the blink of an eye right after Christmas.

Now...any Christian out there who thinks there's anything inaccurate in this paragraph, fill me in.

To which you reply: "I would love to comment on your paragraph but it's more fun to just call you a flaming idiot so that's what I decided to do."

Well, gee, Knight. Knock yourself out and comment, or something. I'm glad Peter and Paul didn't use this approach. "You know, I see that altar over there to THE UNKNOWN GOD? And I'd love to comment on this pagan altar but you know what? You heathens are just flaming idiots. I'm outta here."

Actually, I'd personally have rather had the apostles take that approach. Might've stunted the spread of your faith...

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Originally posted by Sozo

I have not seen one person give him the credit. I know he claims to be able to do exorcisms, but I doubt that he can cause earthquakes. :freak:

I bet if good ol' Jay (AKA freak) were there he could have exocized that tsunami.

 

[Granite]

Originally posted by Sozo

I have not seen one person give him the credit. I know he claims to be able to do exorcisms, but I doubt that he can cause earthquakes. :freak:

Useful, Sozo, as always. You have anything serious to say or are you gonna keep chucking turds all night?

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Originally posted by granite1010

"God can and does comfort those that desire His comfort. God can also give people wisdom in such situations. These are the things that prayer can affect."

Ah. So, those in Asia who were killed, injured, and maimed either weren't asking for his comfort--and got creamed--or were just the victims of dumb, stupid luck.

No...... you retard! But the survivors and victims families can get comfort now through prayer. :duh:

Question: why the world would someone who is now homeless, family dead and possessions washed out to sea, want to pray to the deity who just caused this destruction? "Lord...you either directly caused this tragedy and killed my family; you let it happen, and didn't intervene; or, this caught you by surprise. Either way, help me out." Why the world would a vindictive, or incompetant, or disinterested deity be anyone these people would want to beseech?

Only numbskulls think that God ordained the Tsunami so you can ask them OK?