The Case Against Universal Healthcare

[genuineoriginal]

And you are not alone.

But you have to look at why it's happening.

It is happening because of Federal government involvement in health care for the last 100 years.

 

[Tinark]

It is happening because of Federal government involvement in health care for the last 100 years.

This is the lie you've been fed by those who wish to manipulate you. The reality is that government involvement adds little to the overall cost, on the order of under 10%. 10% is no more than 4-5 years of healthcare cost inflation. Even if this 10% could be saved, we'd be right back to the same cost within 5 years with no federal involvement.

Furthermore, as the example of every single other first world country on the planet has demonstrated, the right kind of system with the right kind of regulations can actually _reduce_ cost, sometimes significantly (by 33% or more).

 

[rexlunae]

Many people don't realize that there is a difference between health insurance and health care.

I, for one, spend so much on health insurance that I can't afford to pay for the health care before the deductible is met and the health insurance starts to pay.

So, push for Universal Health Care, when we get that, you can skip the insurance and just get the health care.

 

[Stripe]

But unless your an anarchist you have no objection to forcing others to pay for what you like.

Nope. It's not about what anyone "likes." It's about what the necessary functions of government are.

I'm sure pacificists don't want an offensively oriented military or nuclear weapons. Does EVERYONE want the fire brigade? By the looks of the recent media in not sure everyone in the US wants the police (perhaps we should privatize that too!)

Those are necessary functions of government; if a different entity were to take over the military, it would be in control of the nation.

And yet I'm sure you'll find there is no evidence of such an association despite all the research on patient attitudes to health and what motivated good habits. As usual you are just making things up and calling them "facts"

Nope. It is necessarily true: everything that a government assumes responsibility for will become less efficient and more expensive.

How? They can still donate to charity.

Evolutionists hate reading.

 

[lovemeorhateme]

Many people don't realize that there is a difference between health insurance and health care.

I, for one, spend so much on health insurance that I can't afford to pay for the health care before the deductible is met and the health insurance starts to pay.

I come from a country where I don't have to pay insurance, I have no deductibles or co-pays and I get all the health care I need. So does everyone else without exception. Not a perfect system, but a fair one. I have no objection to paying for this system in my taxes, and it baffles me why anyone would.

 

[lovemeorhateme]

Nope. It's not about what anyone "likes." It's about what the necessary functions of government are.

Those are necessary functions of government; if a different entity were to take over the military, it would be in control of the nation.

Nope. It is necessarily true: everything that a government assumes responsibility for will become less efficient and more expensive.

Evolutionists hate reading.

Would you say the fire service is a necessary function of government?

Why is it that statistics show healthcare is generally cheaper and more efficient in countries which have universal healthcare?

 

[Tinark]

I come from a country where I don't have to pay insurance, I have no deductibles or co-pays and I get all the health care I need. So does everyone else without exception. Not a perfect system, but a fair one. I have no objection to paying for this system in my taxes, and it baffles me why anyone would.

Communism! Governement control! Evasion of responsibility! VA Hospitals! DMV!!!!1111!!! Stop coveting my money you liberal socialist hippie.

 

[This Charming Manc]

In my mind there is more to being pro-life than simply being anti-abortion. Denying people healthcare and a living wage is not consistent with a pro-life view. Once that child is born we have an obligation to help that child succeed in life.

I would question if some are actually pro life not just anti leftie.

 

[This Charming Manc]

Because lefty governments lie, so they can steal nicks money and use all of it to abort babies of course.

Why is it that statistics show healthcare is generally cheaper and more efficient in countries which have universal healthcare?

 

[jgarden]

Only because you pretend that the extermination of millions of babies is something that has to be ignored.

Just another example of a conservative reading from the "party line" and then "shoot from the lip" without bothering to check the facts - all traits that conservatives seem to have in common!

"Stripe" contends that the 18 safest nations in the world got there as a result of "the extermination of millions of babies."

An examination of the facts will show that not only are these nations safer than America, but 16 also have lower abortion rates - something that "Stripe" would have known if he had bothered to check the facts.

Percentage of Pregnancies Aborted by Country (countries listed by percentage)
updated 25 April 2010

Percent of known pregnancies ending in legal abortions, most recent data (in order of decreasing percentage)

country - year - %
**********************

1. Greenland 2007 51.1%
2. Russia 2008 44.7%
3. Guadeloupe 2007 39.8%
4. Nagorno-Karabakh 2007 38.1%
5. Cuba 2007 37.0%
6. Romania 2008 36.6%
7. Estonia 2008 34.4%
8. Bulgaria 2008 32.0%
9. Martinique 2007 31.6%
10. China (PRC) 2007 31.1%
11. Hungary 2008 30.8%
12. Latvia 2008 30.4%
13. Moldova 2008 29.0
14. Cocos Islands 1978 28.6%
15. Belarus 2008 28.2%
16. Georgia 2008 28.1%
17. Belize 1996 28.0%
18. Kazakhstan 2008 26.8%
19. Sweden 2008 25.8% - 5th safest country
20. Korea, South (ROK) 1999 25.6%
21. New Caledonia 1998 25.2%
22. French Guiana 2007 25.0%
23. Slovakia 2008 24.3%
24. Reunion 2007 23.5%
25. Singapore 2008 23.4% - 3rd safest country
26. Armenia 2008 23.2%
27. Serbia 2008 23.2%
28. Seychelles 2006 23.2%
29. Vietnam 2007 23.2%
30. United States 2005 22.6%
31. Ukraine 2008 21.9%
32. New Zealand 2008 21.6% - 13th safest country
33. France 2007 21.4%
34. Norway 2008 20.9% - 2nd safest country
35. United Kingdom 2008 20.9%
36. Canada 2006 20.7% - 14th safest country
37. Lithuania 2008 20.5%
38. Macedonia 2008 20.5%
39. Australia 2007 20.2% - 17th safest country
40. Hong Kong 2005 19.9%
41. Jersey 2004 19.9%
42. Japan 2007 19.1% - 10th safest country
43. Denmark 2006 18.8% - 1st safest country
44. Albania 2008 18.7%
45. Slovenia 2008 18.5% - 4th safest country
46. Dominican Republic 2005 18.2%
47. Spain 2008 18.2%
48. Montenegro 2007 17.7%
49. Italy 2008 17.4%
50. Turkey 2008 17.0%
51. Croatia 2008 16.9%
52. Iceland 2008 16.5% - 6th safest country
53. Mayotte 2006 16.0%
54. Czech Republic 2008 15.8% - 8th safest country
55. Guernsey 2000 15.0%
56. Finland 2008 14.9% - 12th safest country
57. Mongolia 2008 14.5%
58. Germany 2008 14.4%
59. Azerbaijan 2008 14.2%
60. Kyrgyzstan 2008 14.0%
61. Belgium 2007 13.5% - 7th safest country
62. Netherlands 2007 13.5%
63. Greece 2005 13.3%
64. Guyana 2007 13.3%
65. Andorra 1995 13.0%
66. Taiwan (ROC) 1999 13.0%
67. Isle of Man 2007 12.8 %
68. Switzerland 2008 12.4% - 9th safest country
69. Portugal 2008 11.9% -18th safest country
70. Bahrain 2002 11.4%
71. Anguilla 2005 11.2%
72. Israel 2008 11.1%
73. Barbados 1995 10.3%
74. Puerto Rico 2006 10.2%
75. Tunisia 2008 10.1%
76. Costa Rica 2005 10.0%
77. Bermuda 1984 9.9%
78. Turkmenistan 2008 9.9%
79. Turks and Caicos Islands 2005 9.1%
80. Tajikistan 2007 8.7%
81. South Africa 2007 7.7%
82. Saint Helena 1990 7.1%
83. Ireland 2008 5.8% - 11th safest country
84. Uzbekistan 2008 5.8%
85. Faeroe Islands 2008 5.3%
86. Kosovo 2006 4.6%
87. Bosnia and Herzegovina 2001 3.2%
88. Austria 2000 3.0% - 15th safest country
89. Suriname 1994 3.0%
90. India 2004 2.6%
91. Gibraltar 2008 1.7%
92. Qatar 2005 1.3%
93. Malta 2008 0.9%
94. Venezuela 1968 0.8%
95. United Arab Emirates 2006 0.10%
96. Mexico 2007 0.09%
97. Poland 2007 0.09 *
98. Botswana 1984 0.04%
99. Chile 1991 0.02%
100. Luxembourg 1997 0.02%

http://fellowshipoftheminds.com/2011/11/01/abortion-rates-for-101-countries/

 

[genuineoriginal]

This is the lie you've been fed by those who wish to manipulate you. The reality is that government involvement adds little to the overall cost, on the order of under 10%. 10% is no more than 4-5 years of healthcare cost inflation. Even if this 10% could be saved, we'd be right back to the same cost within 5 years with no federal involvement.

Furthermore, as the example of every single other first world country on the planet has demonstrated, the right kind of system with the right kind of regulations can actually _reduce_ cost, sometimes significantly (by 33% or more).

You seem to have missed how the Federal government's tax exclusions for employer provided health insurance has mucked everything up, creating the situation we currently have.


How did America end up with this health care system?
How Employer-Sponsored Insurance Drives Up Health Costs

 

[genuineoriginal]

I come from a country where I don't have to pay insurance, I have no deductibles or co-pays and I get all the health care I need. So does everyone else without exception. Not a perfect system, but a fair one.

That is not a fair system.

 

[This Charming Manc]

Everybody gets at least good healthcare, that seems fair.

That is not a fair system.

 

[Jonahdog]

Just another example of a conservative reading from the "party line" and then "shoot from the lip" without bothering to check the facts - all traits that conservatives seem to have in common!

"Stripe" contends that the 18 safest nations in the world got there as a result of "the extermination of millions of babies."

An examination of the facts will show that not only are these nations safer than America, but 16 also have lower abortion rates - something that "Stripe" would have known if he had bothered to check the facts.

Stripe don't need no stinkin' facts.

 

[jgarden]

That is not a fair system.

Is it fair that tithing to a church is tax deductable in a nation that claims to separate church and state?

 

[Stripe]

Would you say the fire service is a necessary function of government?

Yes.

In an emergency, the government should be ready, able and good at stepping in to restore safety and order.

 

[jgarden]

Communism! Governement control! Evasion of responsibility! VA Hospitals! DMV!!!!1111!!! Stop coveting my money you liberal socialist hippie.

Oxfam has released a new report on the dispiriting accumulation of more and more of the world's wealth in the hands of a smaller and smaller group of outrageously wealthy individuals.
You may recall that in 2013, the bottom 50% of people on earth—about 3.5 billion people—had only 1% of global wealth. Here is a stark indication of just how fast the very rich are getting richer: "
In 2010, it took 388 billionaires to equal the wealth of the bottom half of the world‟s population; by 2014, the figure had fallen to just 80 billionaires."

The Bottom 50% of People on Earth Have Only 1% of the Wealth.

http://gawker.com/the-top-1-is-close-to-owning-most-of-everything-1680431368

80 billionaires have 50% of the world's wealth while 3.5 billion people are making do with just 1% of its wealth.

Apparently anyone who questions the morality of this unequal distribution of wealth is summarily dismissed as "communist," promoting "government control," an "evasion of responsibility" and/or "coveting!"

The wealthy want a government just big enough to protect their best interests from the other 99% - but not big enough to protect the other 99% from them!

 

[Stripe]

The wealthy want a government just big enough to protect their best interests from the other 99% - but not big enough to protect the other 99% from them!

And you want a government that will make rich people give you money.

 

[jgarden]

And you want a government that will make rich people give you money.

Obviously the fact that 80 billionaires contol 50% if the world's wealth doesn't concern "Stripe."

What was it that Christ said about how hard it would be for the "rich" in this world to enter the Kingdom of Heaven?

 

[Stripe]

Obviously the fact that 80 billionaires contol 50% if the world's wealth doesn't concern "Stripe."

And it obviously concerns you enough to make you pretend that you are justified in demanding the government make rules to grant you access to their money.

What was it that Christ said about how hard it would be for the "rich" in this world to enter the Kingdom of Heaven?

What was it that He said about not worrying what tomorrow would bring?

And since when did you care what the creator says?

Liberal hypocrite. :loser: