The Case Against Universal Healthcare

[zoo22]

Taiwan tops the expat health care charts "The island offers the cheapest and best medical facilities of any country in the world, according to a new survey."

Taiwan has socialized health care.

Nearly seven in 10 expats in Taiwan say they spend less on health care than they used to before moving – compared with a global average of just three in 10.

Meanwhile almost two-thirds say they enjoy a higher quality of health care in Taiwan than they did at home, against a global average of less than four in 10.

Runners-up on the chart produced by HSBC showing affordable and cheap countries in terms of care were the UK, Thailand, Japan and Saudi Arabia.

At the opposite end of the scale, expats in Brazil, New Zealand, Ireland and the USA complained that they have to put up with expensive and poor quality health care.

...

The survey report said: “The Taiwanese health care system is coveted by health care tourists around the world, but its simple rules for expats and provisions for health insurance are what distinguish it from the pack in this year’s survey.

“Upon relocation, all expats and their employers are required to register with the National Health Insurance system, which grants them access to medical and dental care."

full article

Does anyone know why Stripe, a New Zealander who chose to relocate himself to Taiwan is griping about America's healthcare system?

 

[This Charming Manc]

To all according to need from all by resources isn't unfair.

The better off providing for the poor and not benign able to access the care they pay for is unfair and is worth griping about.

I think in with a capitalist system with a limited safety net that is what you get, it is your experience of solicited medicine and maybe where this violent emotional reaction comes from.

the founding principles of our NHS are

• that it meet the needs of everyone
• that it be free at the point of delivery
• that it be based on clinical need, not ability to pay

those are not evil things

It is not fair to look at whether everyone gets the same thing if you don't care how fair the giving is.

 

[chrysostom]

we are too big for national health care
too big means too much money concentrated in one place
local control is the answer
each state should control health care
so
vote republican
if
you want local control

 

[Stripe]

Does anyone know why Stripe, a New Zealander who chose to relocate himself to Taiwan is griping about America's healthcare system?

Ah, this means you'll be able to show where I mentioned the US system. Go ahead. :thumb:

The thread in no way limits the discussion to a nation.

Stupid troll. :troll:

 

[genuineoriginal]

To all according to need from all by resources isn't unfair.

That is incredibly unfair.

the founding principles of our NHS are

• that it meet the needs of everyone
• that it be free at the point of delivery
• that it be based on clinical need, not ability to pay

those are not evil things

The NHS is based on the evil practice of stealing from those that have in order to give to those that have not.
That makes it an evil thing, no matter what good is done with the stolen money.

 

[Tinark]

That is incredibly unfair.


The NHS is based on the evil practice of stealing from those that have in order to give to those that have not.
That makes it an evil thing, no matter what good is done with the stolen money.

Jesus disagrees with you - taxed money belongs to the government and is therefore not stolen.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Jesus disagrees with you - taxed money belongs to the government and is therefore not stolen.

Here is what is written in the Bible:

Matthew 22:17-22 17 Tell us therefore, What thinkest thou? Is it lawful to give tribute unto Caesar, or not? 18 But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, Why tempt ye me, ye hypocrites? 19 Shew me the tribute money. And they brought unto him a penny. 20 And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription? 21 They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's. 22 When they had heard these words, they marvelled, and left him, and went their way.​

You falsely claim that Jesus said that the taxed money belonged to the government, when what Jesus cleverly said was that the coins that the Pharisees used to pay for the taxes must belong to Caesar since they have Caesar's image and title on them.

So, what Jesus actually said was that if Caesar made those coins, then give them to Caesar, but make certain that you also give to God those things that God made.

 

[Tinark]

Here is what is written in the Bible:

Matthew 22:17-22 17 Tell us therefore, What thinkest thou? Is it lawful to give tribute unto Caesar, or not? 18 But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, Why tempt ye me, ye hypocrites? 19 Shew me the tribute money. And they brought unto him a penny. 20 And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription? 21 They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's. 22 When they had heard these words, they marvelled, and left him, and went their way.​

You falsely claim that Jesus said that the taxed money belonged to the government, when what Jesus cleverly said was that the coins that the Pharisees used to pay for the taxes must belong to Caesar since they have Caesar's image and title on them.

So, what Jesus actually said was that if Caesar made those coins, then give them to Caesar, but make certain that you also give to God those things that God made.

And the government made the currency, so therefore give it the amount of currency which it demands.

 

[genuineoriginal]

And the government made the currency, so therefore give it the amount of currency which it demands.

I have under $10 in currency at the moment, and most of that was created by the privately owned bank that prints Federal Reserve Notes and not by the government.

The currency I have that the government minted is about $3.

All the rest of my funds is in electronic money that the government did not mint.

Now what?

 

[Tinark]

I have under $10 in currency at the moment, and most of that was created by the privately owned bank that prints Federal Reserve Notes and not by the government.

The currency I have that the government minted is about $3.

All the rest of my funds is in electronic money that the government did not mint.

Now what?

:rotfl:

 

[genuineoriginal]

:rotfl:

Lewis v. United States, 680 F.2d 1239 (1982)
No. 80-5905
United States Court of Appeals, Ninth Circuit.

"we conclude that the Reserve Banks are not federal instrumentalities for purpose of the FTCA, but are independent, privately owned and locally controlled corporations. "

:think:

 

[Tinark]

Lewis v. United States, 680 F.2d 1239 (1982)
No. 80-5905
United States Court of Appeals, Ninth Circuit.

"we conclude that the Reserve Banks are not federal instrumentalities for purpose of the FTCA, but are independent, privately owned and locally controlled corporations. "

:think:

I don't wish to go down this rabbit hole with FRB conspiracy theorists.

It is the US Treasury - a department of the federal government, that mints the currency, not the federal reserve. Therefore, your point is moot.

 

[Tyrathca]

Nope. You're going to have to learn to read. :thumb:

I did read and I can see you think what you wrote made the answer obvious. But as I already said this just shows your ignorance about healthcare, you have no idea what sort of system you actually asking for!

 

[Stripe]

I did read.

Nothing you have written in response gives any indication that you have. :idunno:

 

[Tyrathca]

Nothing you have written in response gives any indication that you have. :idunno:

Nothing you have written indicates you comprehend :idunno:

 

[This Charming Manc]

Keeping bowing to false Gods of love of money and individualism, you views have nowt to do with the Bible, God or Jesus.

The bible makes it very clear that taxes legally raised by God ordained government are not sinful and belong to the state.

That is incredibly unfair.


The NHS is based on the evil practice of stealing from those that have in order to give to those that have not.
That makes it an evil thing, no matter what good is done with the stolen money.

 

[This Charming Manc]

try thios no wriggle room for you in this one.

6 This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. 7 Give to everyone what you owe them: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

and id suggest you not try too wriggle to hard

2 Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment.

Here is what is written in the Bible:

Matthew 22:17-22 17 Tell us therefore, What thinkest thou? Is it lawful to give tribute unto Caesar, or not? 18 But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, Why tempt ye me, ye hypocrites? 19 Shew me the tribute money. And they brought unto him a penny. 20 And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription? 21 They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's. 22 When they had heard these words, they marvelled, and left him, and went their way.​

You falsely claim that Jesus said that the taxed money belonged to the government, when what Jesus cleverly said was that the coins that the Pharisees used to pay for the taxes must belong to Caesar since they have Caesar's image and title on them.

So, what Jesus actually said was that if Caesar made those coins, then give them to Caesar, but make certain that you also give to God those things that God made.

 

[Stripe]

Nothing you have written indicates you comprehend :idunno:

Nope. What I say is perfectly straightforward.

There are necessary functions of government. Healthcare ain't one of them. People are capable of providing for their own healthcare, but the government has to run the military.

When the government takes over anything, the system's efficiency necessarily decreases and its costs necessarily increase.

 

[This Charming Manc]

A truism but not always true.

Examine thew outcomes to spend level of the UK and the USA on healthcare. We see very similar outcomes in terms of life expectancy, but the US has considerably higher healthcare spend.

The obvious conclusion to make is that the UK's universal single payer system is better than the US's current medical insurance system in terms of efficiency.

I love the NHS but I don't think its perfect in term of efficiency, but on evidence it seems better that what US has right now.

UK life expectancy 81 health spend per capita $3,405
US life expectancy 79.8 health spend per capita $8,508

This to me shows the current US system is a lot more inefficient and expensive than a government run single payer system.

When the government takes over anything, the system's efficiency necessarily decreases and its costs necessarily increase.

 

[PureX]

A truism but not always true.

Examine thew outcomes to spend level of the UK and the USA on healthcare. We see very similar outcomes in terms of life expectancy, but the US has considerably higher healthcare spend.

The obvious conclusion to make is that the UK's universal single payer system is better than the US's current medical insurance system in terms of efficiency.

I love the NHS but I don't think its perfect in term of efficiency, but on evidence it seems better that what US has right now.

UK life expectancy 81 health spend per capita $3,405
US life expectancy 79.8 health spend per capita $8,508

This to me shows the current US system is a lot more inefficient and expensive than a government run single payer system.

Stripe will not be able to accept your reasoning. He is invested, personally, in condemning health care for everyone. I don't know why. He wants people to suffer, and die, even though they could be relieved of that suffering, and live. Stripe just doesn't like or value other human beings, much. He really wants to see them punished. Without mercy. For whatever it is he imagines them to have done wrong.