The Case Against Universal Healthcare

[genuineoriginal]

The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.
- John Kenneth Galbraith

The Bible asks people to become selfless, not selfish.

Having the government take your money to pay for other people's selfishness is the way you justify your selfishness.

 

[This Charming Manc]

I think you ( the right in general) are worshiping the great idol of individualism, which isn't a biblical principle.

The Bible asks people to become selfless, not selfish.

Having the government take your money to pay for other people's selfishness is the way you justify your selfishness.

 

[chrysostom]

why suffer?
there is always a procedure for whatever ails you
if
there isn't a pill
sometimes you don't even need to see a doctor
just watch tv
you will find out what you need
but
go ahead and see the doctor
if
you need to talk to someone who cares

 

[Stripe]

The question is Nick, why would you object to helping those in need unless it was because you were coveting more money?

We do not object to helping those we see who are in need; we object to having to pay under threat of imprisonment for something we do not want.

A universal healthcare system trains people to believe that they have no part to play when they see others who are in need.

A universal healthcare system robs people of the opportunity to show charity.

I'm not sure what you're referring to.

Try going back and responding rationally in place of your first post to me.

"Socialist" nations are not only among the safest places to live.

Only because you pretend that the extermination of millions of babies is something that has to be ignored.

 

[CabinetMaker]

Tell me, does the command for not coveting our neighbor's stuff also apply to the government and not the individual, or is it only the command to love and help our neighbors in need that applies to the government and not the individual?

It applies to those in government but to government. Governments are empowered by God to collect taxes so that is not covetousness.

 

[Tyrathca]

We do not object to helping those we see who are in need; we object to having to pay under threat of imprisonment for something we do not want.

But unless your an anarchist you have no objection to forcing others to pay for what you like. I'm sure pacificists don't want an offensively oriented military or nuclear weapons. Does EVERYONE want the fire brigade? By the looks of the recent media in not sure everyone in the US wants the police (perhaps we should privatize that too!)

A universal healthcare system trains people to believe that they have no part to play when they see others who are in need.

And yet I'm sure you'll find there is no evidence of such an association despite all the research on patient attitudes to health and what motivated good habits. As usual you are just making things up and calling them "facts"

A universal healthcare system robs people of the opportunity to show charity.

How? They can still donate to charity.

Try going back and responding rationally in place of your first post to me.

I did already but since your a tad dense I'll simplify it for you - healthcare generally lacks characteristics which are fundamental to the proper functioning of a free market with it.

 

[genuineoriginal]

It applies to those in government but to government. Governments are empowered by God to collect taxes so that is not covetousness.

If the command to not covet does not apply to the government, then neither does the command to aid the needy.

The command to aid the needy is a command for individuals, and having the government do it instead stops many people from obeying that command.

First, they don't have to do it because the government does it.
Second, they don't know who needs help because the government programs hide their need from sight.
Third, they don't have the finances to aid the needy because the government took it from them.

 

[PureX]

Government doesn't "covet" anything. It simply collects money to be used for the well-being of society as a whole. Money for things like physical infrastructure, health and safety, national security, and civic administration.

 

[CabinetMaker]

If the command to not covet does not apply to the government, then neither does the command to aid the needy.

The command to aid the needy is a command for individuals, and having the government do it instead stops many people from obeying that command.

First, they don't have to do it because the government does it.
Second, they don't know who needs help because the government programs hide their need from sight.
Third, they don't have the finances to aid the needy because the government took it from them.

It is also possible that the government started doing it in the first place because individuals were not doing it.

 

[Nick M]

I think you ( the right in general) are worshiping the great idol of individualism, which isn't a biblical principle.

If a man doesn't work, he isn't allowed to eat.

 

[Nick M]

Government doesn't "covet" anything.

By your idiot statement government doesn't exist. Government is an institution made up by people. And those people do covet.

 

[This Charming Manc]

Go shove your twisted proof text where Son don't shine and go read the rest if the bible moron.

you seem i'm getting the hang if 'Nick speak'

If a man doesn't work, he isn't allowed to eat.

 

[lovemeorhateme]

If a man doesn't work, he isn't allowed to eat.

Heaven forbid a man gets too ill to work. Would you argue he shouldn't eat? If he's too poor to afford healthcare, it seems you would deny him the very healthcare which could enable him to go back to work.

 

[PureX]

Heaven forbid a man gets too ill to work. Would you argue he shouldn't eat? If he's too poor to afford healthcare, it seems you would deny him the very healthcare which could enable him to go back to work.

Here in the U.S. there are literally millions of people who work full time and still cannot afford health insurance. It's idiotic to deny them health care, even if one were so selfish and morally bankrupt that they'd to want to do such a thing.

 

[Rusha]

Here in the U.S. there are literally millions of people who work full time and still cannot afford health insurance. It's idiotic to deny them health care, even if one were so selfish and morally bankrupt that they'd to want to do such a thing.

That ... or worse. I am thinking animosity towards one's fellow human being for the sole sake of ... animosity.

 

[CabinetMaker]

In my mind there is more to being pro-life than simply being anti-abortion. Denying people healthcare and a living wage is not consistent with a pro-life view. Once that child is born we have an obligation to help that child succeed in life.

It puts me in mind of one of my favorite jokes. A very rich man worked very hard and accumulated much gold. He figured out a way to take it with him after he died. He arrived at the Pearly Gates where he was met my by St. Peter. St. Peter asked what was in the mans bags to which he replied, "Gold! All my gold!" St. Peter got a rather puzzled look on his face and looked at the man and asked him, "Why did you bring pavement with you?"

All our worldly wealth counts for nothing after we die. Might as well share it while we're here when it can do some good.

 

[Rusha]

In my mind there is more to being pro-life than simply being anti-abortion. Denying people healthcare and a living wage is not consistent with a pro-life view. Once that child is born we have an obligation to help that child succeed in life.

Exactly right. The concern shouldn't end AFTER the child is born, and it should extend to the family unit (mother/father/siblings) as well.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Government doesn't "covet" anything. It simply collects money to be used for the well-being of society as a whole. Money for things like physical infrastructure, health and safety, national security, and civic administration.

If you search the constitution, you will find no mention of legislating health.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Here in the U.S. there are literally millions of people who work full time and still cannot afford health insurance. It's idiotic to deny them health care, even if one were so selfish and morally bankrupt that they'd to want to do such a thing.

Many people don't realize that there is a difference between health insurance and health care.

I, for one, spend so much on health insurance that I can't afford to pay for the health care before the deductible is met and the health insurance starts to pay.

 

[PureX]

Many people don't realize that there is a difference between health insurance and health care.

I, for one, spend so much on health insurance that I can't afford to pay for the health care before the deductible is met and the health insurance starts to pay.

And you are not alone.

But you have to look at why it's happening. And it's happening because nearly every business that is involved in providing health care in this country is price-gouging us and blaming it on every other business that involved. The fact is that health care is not a free market, it's a captive market, and everyone involved in it knows it. They know we must ultimately pay whatever they charge or we suffer dire consequences. And until we as a society face up to our own murderous greed, and put a stop to it, you will continue to pay whatever they demand, because if you don't, you'll risk not only the refusal of care, but bankruptcy as well.