beloved57
Well-known member
Amen !
The Atonement: What did it REALLY Accomplish?
- Thread starter beloved57
- Start date
Amen !
beloved57
Well-known member
You obviously don't believe that Christ death alone saved those He died for, that is unbelief !
beloved57
Well-known member
Amen to all you stated !
beloved57
Well-known member
Will draw all to Him !
Will draw all to Him !
Jn 12:32
32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
This verse more than any other does ensure the saving/converting success from Christ's death, the Lifting up here has reference to Atoning Death, and as a consequence, all for whom He was Lifted up in behalf of, that is delivered for or because of their sins Rom 4:25
25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
They shall be drawn to Him, by the cords of Divine Love Jer 31:3
3 The Lord hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.
If God Loved us in Christ, He will draw us to Him, for God's Love must be in Christ for this to occur Rom 8:39
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
The all men that are drawn in Jn 12:32 is His Spouse, the Church, His Bride, whom He Loved and gave Himself for Eph 5:25
25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
This is also pictured in Song of Solomon 1:4
The song of songs, which is Solomon's.
2 Let him kiss me with the kisses of his mouth: for thy love is better than wine.
3 Because of the savour of thy good ointments thy name is as ointment poured forth, therefore do the virgins love thee.
4 Draw me, we will run after thee: the king hath brought me into his chambers: we will be glad and rejoice in thee, we will remember thy love more than wine: the upright love thee.
This pictures the Holy Bride being drawn by the Bridegroom and she perceives His Love for her
And She Loves Him in return because it is written 1 Jn 4:19
19 We love him, because he first loved us.
The Upright is His Spouse, the Church, made so by His Obedience unto death Rom 5:19
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
There is an superb illustration of how the Love of Christ and the power of His Death/ Cross draws individuals to Him that He has Loved and gave Himself for, and how He works secretly in their hearts and minds drawing them to Himself !
Mk 14:3-9
To those of you who dont know, this is Mary of Bethany or Magdalene who was being a notorious sinner, but notice how she showed up here at this dinner, she was drawn by Her Saviors Love, realizing the Forgiveness of her sins.
In another Gospel account Lk 7:36-48 Jesus informs us of why she wrought this good work upon Him Lk 7:47-48
47 Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.
48 And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven.
She had been given a Divine intuition of her forgivness that incited this action of hers. Also Jesus stated that it was conncted to His Death and Burial Matt 26:12-13
12 For in that she hath poured this ointment on my body, she did it for my burial.
13 Verily I say unto you, Wheresoever this gospel shall be preached in the whole world, there shall also this, that this woman hath done, be told for a memorial of her.
The same burial Paul mentions here 1 Cor 15:3-4
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
All for whom Christ died, was Lifted up for, shall be drawn to Him by the cords of Love, and they shall Love in return !
Will draw all to Him !
Jn 12:32
32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
This verse more than any other does ensure the saving/converting success from Christ's death, the Lifting up here has reference to Atoning Death, and as a consequence, all for whom He was Lifted up in behalf of, that is delivered for or because of their sins Rom 4:25
25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
They shall be drawn to Him, by the cords of Divine Love Jer 31:3
3 The Lord hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.
If God Loved us in Christ, He will draw us to Him, for God's Love must be in Christ for this to occur Rom 8:39
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
The all men that are drawn in Jn 12:32 is His Spouse, the Church, His Bride, whom He Loved and gave Himself for Eph 5:25
25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
This is also pictured in Song of Solomon 1:4
The song of songs, which is Solomon's.
2 Let him kiss me with the kisses of his mouth: for thy love is better than wine.
3 Because of the savour of thy good ointments thy name is as ointment poured forth, therefore do the virgins love thee.
4 Draw me, we will run after thee: the king hath brought me into his chambers: we will be glad and rejoice in thee, we will remember thy love more than wine: the upright love thee.
This pictures the Holy Bride being drawn by the Bridegroom and she perceives His Love for her
And She Loves Him in return because it is written 1 Jn 4:19
19 We love him, because he first loved us.
The Upright is His Spouse, the Church, made so by His Obedience unto death Rom 5:19
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
There is an superb illustration of how the Love of Christ and the power of His Death/ Cross draws individuals to Him that He has Loved and gave Himself for, and how He works secretly in their hearts and minds drawing them to Himself !
Mk 14:3-9
To those of you who dont know, this is Mary of Bethany or Magdalene who was being a notorious sinner, but notice how she showed up here at this dinner, she was drawn by Her Saviors Love, realizing the Forgiveness of her sins.
In another Gospel account Lk 7:36-48 Jesus informs us of why she wrought this good work upon Him Lk 7:47-48
47 Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.
48 And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven.
She had been given a Divine intuition of her forgivness that incited this action of hers. Also Jesus stated that it was conncted to His Death and Burial Matt 26:12-13
12 For in that she hath poured this ointment on my body, she did it for my burial.
13 Verily I say unto you, Wheresoever this gospel shall be preached in the whole world, there shall also this, that this woman hath done, be told for a memorial of her.
The same burial Paul mentions here 1 Cor 15:3-4
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
All for whom Christ died, was Lifted up for, shall be drawn to Him by the cords of Love, and they shall Love in return !
Ben Masada
New member
The Atonement; what did it really accomplish?
The Atonement; what did it really accomplish?
Nothing. Since you are referring to the crucifixion of Jesus, the world was bad before Jesus was born and it only got worse after he died. What was the atonement supposed to accomplish?
The Atonement; what did it really accomplish?
Nothing. Since you are referring to the crucifixion of Jesus, the world was bad before Jesus was born and it only got worse after he died. What was the atonement supposed to accomplish?
beloved57
Well-known member
Invalid comment. Tell us about golden calf worship. You know of anyone who did that ?
Nanja
Well-known member
Amen, they surely shall.
Those He draws, His Spouse, the Church, His Bride, are given a New Heart and a New Spirit to come to Him Ezek. 36:26-27.
Only the New Man Eph. 4:24 will bring forth fruit unto God by His Grace, of which one is Love 1 Tim. 1:14.
(And they also, as One Body in Christ, will have Love one for another John 13:35; 1 Pet. 1:22.)
Song 2:4 He brought me to the banqueting house, and his banner over me was love.
I found it interesting that the word for brought is Heb. bow', and also means "to cause to come in".
~~~~~
beloved57
Well-known member
Amen thanks for your comment on SOS 2:4 the word brought, you were right, also it's the same word used in Gen 2:22 when it speaks of God bringing the woman to the Man, which illustrates Christ and the Church Eph 5:30ff !
Nanja
Well-known member
Awesome! TY
Also, it's same word (bow') used in my signature (Psalm 42:2)
which I deliberately changed from the KJV "come" to "brought in"
after looking at the meaning of that word, because I felt that it
was a more accurate sentiment of what I wanted to express. ☺
~~~~~
beloved57
Well-known member
Amen !
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
No blood is required in bring the soul into 'at-one-ment' with the Spirit.....
No blood is required in bring the soul into 'at-one-ment' with the Spirit.....
Adding to my first responses on page #1, we would note that 'atonement' can mean different things for different people, and a good many modern day thinkers find the concept of 'blood-atonement' as both 'primitive' and 'barbaric'. We would also recall that other forms of 'atonement' are accepted without shedding the blood of any living animal (let alone a human being), as explored amply in my previous thread "Atonement without blood". So, you'll have to prove killing an animal or human being has any 'atoning' value whatsoever, beyond what your own religious belief invests it with, which may or may not affect you in any significant way in any case.
So, it all depends on who you ask, even among those who accept some form or kind of 'atonement' associated with Jesus life/death/sacrifice/service, or those who do not accept that such is even 'necessary'.
What has your own 'concept' of 'atonement' done for you, besides give you a conceptual belief-system within a given 'frame' upon which you hang your religious belief, with its assorted artifacts? Its a relative question, religiously speaking, which begs relative answers according to 'point of view'. How much of our own theology is an 'invention' or 'comfort' for our own ego?
You'll have a hard time getting some to accept that God had to send his Son to die on a cross, shed his holy blood to pay a ransom or a 'sin-debt' for 'sinners' so that God could be relieved, compensated or satisfied in some way to enable for his love to save them ( here the concept of 'justice' or 'compensation' could be questioned, while the reality of God's love openly accepting all who TURN TO HIM (via repentance) is a much simpler effective way to come back into harmony with Him). If you look in the scriptures, 'repentance' itself has always been the way back to 'God', turning heart and mind to the Creator and his laws,... since 'God' is lawful and his Love turns no sincere pray-er away. Might you re-consider your theology in light of these points? :sherlock:
pj
No blood is required in bring the soul into 'at-one-ment' with the Spirit.....
Adding to my first responses on page #1, we would note that 'atonement' can mean different things for different people, and a good many modern day thinkers find the concept of 'blood-atonement' as both 'primitive' and 'barbaric'. We would also recall that other forms of 'atonement' are accepted without shedding the blood of any living animal (let alone a human being), as explored amply in my previous thread "Atonement without blood". So, you'll have to prove killing an animal or human being has any 'atoning' value whatsoever, beyond what your own religious belief invests it with, which may or may not affect you in any significant way in any case.
So, it all depends on who you ask, even among those who accept some form or kind of 'atonement' associated with Jesus life/death/sacrifice/service, or those who do not accept that such is even 'necessary'.
What has your own 'concept' of 'atonement' done for you, besides give you a conceptual belief-system within a given 'frame' upon which you hang your religious belief, with its assorted artifacts? Its a relative question, religiously speaking, which begs relative answers according to 'point of view'. How much of our own theology is an 'invention' or 'comfort' for our own ego?
You'll have a hard time getting some to accept that God had to send his Son to die on a cross, shed his holy blood to pay a ransom or a 'sin-debt' for 'sinners' so that God could be relieved, compensated or satisfied in some way to enable for his love to save them ( here the concept of 'justice' or 'compensation' could be questioned, while the reality of God's love openly accepting all who TURN TO HIM (via repentance) is a much simpler effective way to come back into harmony with Him). If you look in the scriptures, 'repentance' itself has always been the way back to 'God', turning heart and mind to the Creator and his laws,... since 'God' is lawful and his Love turns no sincere pray-er away. Might you re-consider your theology in light of these points? :sherlock:
pj
beloved57
Well-known member
Do you believe in God ?
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Re-evaluating 'blood-atonement' concept.......
Re-evaluating 'blood-atonement' concept.......
I'd gather you would ascertain a somewhat cognitive answer by reading my posts as to whether 'God' is being 'related' to in any way, which would obviously reveal a positive affirmative, since 'God' is being described as something 'definite' and 'real' enough to 'relate' to....doesn't that seem reasonable a conclusion? That a 'God' (Creative Intelligence, Universal Consciousness, Spirit, Soul, Mind, Supreme Being, Light, Love, Truth EXISTS....appears reasonable, since the very light of my own 'being' and 'consciousness' attests to an inherent reality that is self-authenticating or reflective.)
My thoughts on 'atonement' remain, and they are subject to change, if better or more tenable information is forthcoming. Bloodshed was not the only means in ancient times to effect some kind of atonement, since other means existed that made 'atonement'. Beyond such rituals or cultic-practices, there is no proof that any shed blood (animal or human) has 'atoning' power outside of what the 'believer' invests in it. 'Blood' certainly has figurative and symbolic meaning and powers so vested by an observer, comparing physical substances with spiritual. How these 'translate' depend upon the religionist or his school.
See:
The Eucharist
Jewish perspective on Lev. 17:11
The endless loophole of blood atonement
Atonement without bloodshed (Gospel of the Holy 12)
~*~*~
All you have is 'faith' in some kind of 'accomplishment' of some kind of 'atonement', defined and understood within your own 'theology', whose 'validity' is according to your own 'criteria' or scriptural interpretation. Its value or meaning is relative.
It becomes very "iffy" when this 'accomplishment' is only limited to a group of people "cherry-picked" by 'God', who had no choice in the matter anyways, and that an 'eternal damnation' was chosen for the remainder of souls, by no choice of their own either, since none of these individuals have no say in the matter. For only a small group of 'elect' ones to claim exclusive salvation for themselves ONLY is rather self-serving if not ego-gratifying,...even if its often proclaimed that "its all God's doing and only He gets the glory". Even more dubious is when "God can do what He wants because He's God" gets toted around, to somehow make atrocities look divinely sanctioned when reason and sanity is tossed aside to maintain some misconceived notion of justice or mercy. Integrity of being and the gift of 'free will' is still given by the Gods to man, his divine offspring, as He says "choose life or death" in so many words and leaves the offer to man to 'respond' to and 'co-create' his own conditions, consequences and outcomes. In the realm of love and true 'response-ability' to matters of life or death,...the "choice" is yours.
pj
Re-evaluating 'blood-atonement' concept.......
I'd gather you would ascertain a somewhat cognitive answer by reading my posts as to whether 'God' is being 'related' to in any way, which would obviously reveal a positive affirmative, since 'God' is being described as something 'definite' and 'real' enough to 'relate' to....doesn't that seem reasonable a conclusion? That a 'God' (Creative Intelligence, Universal Consciousness, Spirit, Soul, Mind, Supreme Being, Light, Love, Truth EXISTS....appears reasonable, since the very light of my own 'being' and 'consciousness' attests to an inherent reality that is self-authenticating or reflective.)
My thoughts on 'atonement' remain, and they are subject to change, if better or more tenable information is forthcoming. Bloodshed was not the only means in ancient times to effect some kind of atonement, since other means existed that made 'atonement'. Beyond such rituals or cultic-practices, there is no proof that any shed blood (animal or human) has 'atoning' power outside of what the 'believer' invests in it. 'Blood' certainly has figurative and symbolic meaning and powers so vested by an observer, comparing physical substances with spiritual. How these 'translate' depend upon the religionist or his school.
See:
The Eucharist
Jewish perspective on Lev. 17:11
The endless loophole of blood atonement
Atonement without bloodshed (Gospel of the Holy 12)
~*~*~
All you have is 'faith' in some kind of 'accomplishment' of some kind of 'atonement', defined and understood within your own 'theology', whose 'validity' is according to your own 'criteria' or scriptural interpretation. Its value or meaning is relative.
It becomes very "iffy" when this 'accomplishment' is only limited to a group of people "cherry-picked" by 'God', who had no choice in the matter anyways, and that an 'eternal damnation' was chosen for the remainder of souls, by no choice of their own either, since none of these individuals have no say in the matter. For only a small group of 'elect' ones to claim exclusive salvation for themselves ONLY is rather self-serving if not ego-gratifying,...even if its often proclaimed that "its all God's doing and only He gets the glory". Even more dubious is when "God can do what He wants because He's God" gets toted around, to somehow make atrocities look divinely sanctioned when reason and sanity is tossed aside to maintain some misconceived notion of justice or mercy. Integrity of being and the gift of 'free will' is still given by the Gods to man, his divine offspring, as He says "choose life or death" in so many words and leaves the offer to man to 'respond' to and 'co-create' his own conditions, consequences and outcomes. In the realm of love and true 'response-ability' to matters of life or death,...the "choice" is yours.
pj
beloved57
Well-known member
Again, do you believe in God ?
beloved57
Well-known member
1 Cor 15:45 He became a Life giving Spirit !
1 Cor 15:45 He became a Life giving Spirit !
1 Cor 15:45
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
To who did He become a Life giving Spirit to ? Why to everyone He died for and canceled for them the wages of sin, which is Death !
Now this Truth was confirmed on the Day of Pentecost, when the risen and Exalted Christ, poured out upon His Church, His Body, His Life giving Spirit, notice the words of Acts 2:31-33
31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
And by His Spirit that He gave them by shedding it forth. Note that word shed forth does also mean:
to give; bestow; communicate: To impart !
And by His Spirit given them they were quickened to Spiritual Life, and with that cometh Spiritual ears to hear, and spiritual hearts to tremble at God's Words Isa 66:2
2 For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the Lord: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth[in awe and reverence] at my word.
Now the message that Peter was inspired to preach to them, convinced them of their sin and unbelief, as we see in Acts 2:23, where he exposed their wickedness and in Vs 37, it shows how the Spirit with the Word had pricked their Hearts, and so it was evident of a Spiritual change having taken place in them, and what is meant by He is a Life giving Spirit as well as He giveth repentance [change] To Israel/Church Acts 5:31
31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
That word exalted is the same word Peter used in Acts 2:33
Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
Thats How He gives Repentance,by being a Exalted Life giving Spirit, He communicates Life and Repentance to His Body ! And so it also cometh to pass about Christ's words here Jn 6:63
63 It is the spirit that quickeneth[1 Cor 15:45]; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
1 Cor 15:45 He became a Life giving Spirit !
1 Cor 15:45
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
To who did He become a Life giving Spirit to ? Why to everyone He died for and canceled for them the wages of sin, which is Death !
Now this Truth was confirmed on the Day of Pentecost, when the risen and Exalted Christ, poured out upon His Church, His Body, His Life giving Spirit, notice the words of Acts 2:31-33
31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
And by His Spirit that He gave them by shedding it forth. Note that word shed forth does also mean:
to give; bestow; communicate: To impart !
And by His Spirit given them they were quickened to Spiritual Life, and with that cometh Spiritual ears to hear, and spiritual hearts to tremble at God's Words Isa 66:2
2 For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the Lord: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth[in awe and reverence] at my word.
Now the message that Peter was inspired to preach to them, convinced them of their sin and unbelief, as we see in Acts 2:23, where he exposed their wickedness and in Vs 37, it shows how the Spirit with the Word had pricked their Hearts, and so it was evident of a Spiritual change having taken place in them, and what is meant by He is a Life giving Spirit as well as He giveth repentance [change] To Israel/Church Acts 5:31
31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
That word exalted is the same word Peter used in Acts 2:33
Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
Thats How He gives Repentance,by being a Exalted Life giving Spirit, He communicates Life and Repentance to His Body ! And so it also cometh to pass about Christ's words here Jn 6:63
63 It is the spirit that quickeneth[1 Cor 15:45]; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
beloved57
Well-known member
1 Cor 15:45 He became a Life giving Spirit ! 2
1 Cor 15:45 He became a Life giving Spirit ! 2
Continuing our thought from the previous post, its no coincidence that the same word for quicken here in Jn 6:63
63 It is the spirit that quickeneth or gives life; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
Its the same word used for the same dynamic Paul writes of here 1 Cor 15:45
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening or life giving spirit.
45 So also it is written, The first man Adam became a living soul. The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.ASV
45 Thus it is written, The first man Adam became a living being (an individual personality); the last Adam (Christ) became a life-giving Spirit [restoring the dead to life].AMP
Its the greek word zoopoieo : which means, I make to live, or I make that to live which was dead, cause ot Live, quicken, or restore to life.
So the Risen Christ, the Last Adam, via the agency of His Spirit, The Holy Ghost, or the Spirit of Christ it may be called, makes or causes that which was dead to live, as in Eph 2:5 where again the same word is used Eph 2:5
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)
5 even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace have ye been saved),ASV
5 Even when we were dead (slain) by [our own] shortcomings and trespasses, He made us alive together in fellowship and in union with Christ; [He gave us the very life of Christ Himself, the same new life with which He quickened Him, for] it is by grace (His favor and mercy which you did not deserve) that you are saved (delivered from judgment and made partakers of Christ’s salvation).AMP
Its then and only then are quickened sinners are prepared for the Gospel Kingdom obedience enjoined by Peter here Acts 2:38
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
1 Cor 15:45 He became a Life giving Spirit ! 2
Continuing our thought from the previous post, its no coincidence that the same word for quicken here in Jn 6:63
63 It is the spirit that quickeneth or gives life; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
Its the same word used for the same dynamic Paul writes of here 1 Cor 15:45
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening or life giving spirit.
45 So also it is written, The first man Adam became a living soul. The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.ASV
45 Thus it is written, The first man Adam became a living being (an individual personality); the last Adam (Christ) became a life-giving Spirit [restoring the dead to life].AMP
Its the greek word zoopoieo : which means, I make to live, or I make that to live which was dead, cause ot Live, quicken, or restore to life.
So the Risen Christ, the Last Adam, via the agency of His Spirit, The Holy Ghost, or the Spirit of Christ it may be called, makes or causes that which was dead to live, as in Eph 2:5 where again the same word is used Eph 2:5
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)
5 even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace have ye been saved),ASV
5 Even when we were dead (slain) by [our own] shortcomings and trespasses, He made us alive together in fellowship and in union with Christ; [He gave us the very life of Christ Himself, the same new life with which He quickened Him, for] it is by grace (His favor and mercy which you did not deserve) that you are saved (delivered from judgment and made partakers of Christ’s salvation).AMP
Its then and only then are quickened sinners are prepared for the Gospel Kingdom obedience enjoined by Peter here Acts 2:38
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
beloved57
Well-known member
1 Cor 15:45 He became a Life giving Spirit ! 3
1 Cor 15:45 He became a Life giving Spirit ! 3
Now in the continuum, the points being made here is that the hearing [spiritually] of Peters words preached, as stated by another Apostle John 1 Jn 4:6
We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
And the pricking of the heart for sin, and the willingness to submit to Apostolic instruction in Gospel obedience, that this was the effect and result of the Saviours Out Pouring of the Spirit Acts 2:33
33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
This Outpouring of the Spirit is also the New Covenant Blessing on the House of Israel with its attending results Ezk 36:26-27
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them[Shall do Gospel Obedience].
The shedding forth of the Spirit that Peter preached Acts 2:33 Paul who was converted later, Preached the same thing Titus 3:5-6
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
You see that ? If Christ is Our Savior, in accordance with that Office, He must shed on us abundantly the Holy Ghost !
The Spiritual renewing of the Holy Ghost gives us a circumcised heart spiritually, along with spiritual ears to Hear, and is that Spiritual preparation of the good ground hearer Matt 13:23; And so in conclusion, those who on the Day of Pentecost and any other time following, who receive the Word of God Preached 1 Thess 1:6; 2:13 and submit to Gospel ordinances as Baptism in the Name of Jesus for the remission of sins, its because they had first and foremost been quickened to Life Spiritual by their Risen Savior !
1 Cor 15:45 He became a Life giving Spirit ! 3
Now in the continuum, the points being made here is that the hearing [spiritually] of Peters words preached, as stated by another Apostle John 1 Jn 4:6
We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
And the pricking of the heart for sin, and the willingness to submit to Apostolic instruction in Gospel obedience, that this was the effect and result of the Saviours Out Pouring of the Spirit Acts 2:33
33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
This Outpouring of the Spirit is also the New Covenant Blessing on the House of Israel with its attending results Ezk 36:26-27
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them[Shall do Gospel Obedience].
The shedding forth of the Spirit that Peter preached Acts 2:33 Paul who was converted later, Preached the same thing Titus 3:5-6
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
You see that ? If Christ is Our Savior, in accordance with that Office, He must shed on us abundantly the Holy Ghost !
The Spiritual renewing of the Holy Ghost gives us a circumcised heart spiritually, along with spiritual ears to Hear, and is that Spiritual preparation of the good ground hearer Matt 13:23; And so in conclusion, those who on the Day of Pentecost and any other time following, who receive the Word of God Preached 1 Thess 1:6; 2:13 and submit to Gospel ordinances as Baptism in the Name of Jesus for the remission of sins, its because they had first and foremost been quickened to Life Spiritual by their Risen Savior !
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
red herring................
red herring................
Again, if you've read my posts in your thread, you'd know the answer to that question, so the purpose or motive behind it remains obscure. I've amply described and explained my view of 'atonement' sufficiently enough to understand its basic concept with challenging points. Granted such, it does not in any way preclude or deny a 'belief' in 'God'.
pj
red herring................
Again, if you've read my posts in your thread, you'd know the answer to that question, so the purpose or motive behind it remains obscure. I've amply described and explained my view of 'atonement' sufficiently enough to understand its basic concept with challenging points. Granted such, it does not in any way preclude or deny a 'belief' in 'God'.
pj
beloved57
Well-known member
Then the answer is no, you don't believe in God !
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Can you show in my writings in this thread particularly where you can honestly assume/deduce such? I'd read more carefully and keep an open inquiring mind to understand clearly what the other is presenting. Again, you cannot prove anywhere here, where my challenging various concepts of 'atonement' somehow equates a 'disbelief' in God. Such is a non-sensical irrational assumption.
pj