The Atonement: What did it REALLY Accomplish?

[beloved57]

nanja

It's impossible for the Elect that Christ shed His Blood for to remain in religious deception and unbelief.

That is correct, unless Christ's blood shed was worthless and powerless, and we know that is not the case !

Because even before we were born into this world as sinners, His Blood was already applied to us in eternity Col. 2:13.

Thats True, in fact His Blood had already been applied in the Mind and Counsel of God, in that , it is why the World was not destroyed the moment Adam sinned.

Paul in his letter to the Romans was addressing the Beloved, those who were called to be Saints Rom. 1:7 (that's the Elect),
when he explains how that, even while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us Rom. 5:8. And so, in time , it is guaranteed
to become manifested by Faith and Repentance He gives us in the New Birth.

Yes, Christ's Death made all for whom He died Just / Righteous Rom 5:19 and so the promise of God is what ? The Just shall live by Faith Rom 1:17, so God must Honor His Word of Promise which entails all who Christ died for will Live by Faith, which of course ensures their New Birth and Fruit of Faith out of the Spirit Gal 5:22 !

If anyone Christ died for does not become a Believer, God is a Liar, simply because His Death makes them Just !

No religion of man, nor any other works he may do in the flesh, can ever accomplish
what the Blood of the Lamb has accomplished for all of His Election of Grace.

Of a Truth !

 

[beloved57]

Salvation comes from His Death !

Salvation comes from His Death !

Its simply amazing how many so called Believers in Christ, they dont even believe that His Death ALONE saved those He died for, which such a belief is essential to Faith in Christ, believing on Him for all of Salvation; in other words, if we dont believe Christ's Death ALONE is what saves a Soul for whom He dies from Death, the Penalty of Sin, that is Death in all of its phases, Spiritual, Eternal, and out of Physical Death if we must die Physically, for all shall not sleep, then quite frankly we dont believe in Christ, thats all to it , we are yet in unbelief, no matter how religious and sincere we may be !

Now there are numerous scriptures that teach God's True People that Christ's death alone saved those He died for, yet at this Time I will Highlight one in particular that is so neglected, which is this One Jn 12:24

24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

The Corn of wheat here that falls into the Ground and DIES, signifys Christ's Death Vs 32-33

32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

33 This he said, signifying what death he should die.

This is all in the same context of Jn 12 ! And if He as that Corn of wheat dies, the result is, " it bringeth forth MUCH Fruit" which is meant by that Salvation, The Salvation of Souls, The Fruit of Life Eternal !

The bringing forth much fruit is the producing of a numerous Offspring or descendents , for the word fruit karpos does mean:

B.the fruit of one's loins, i.e. his progeny, his posterity

Its related to the Great Prophecy Isa 53:10

10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin[Fall into the Ground and die], he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

That word seed zera` means:

D.offspring, descendants, posterity, children

Yes, Jn 12:24 is the same as Isa 53:10, and this offspring receives its Life from Christ 1 Cor 15:45

45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

And there is no other way to understand Jn 12:24, the verse simply teaches the Eternal Salvation of each and everyone Christ as the Corn of wheat fell into the Ground and died for, Seeing His Seed is the Fruit of His Death, or bringing forth much fruit !

 

[beloved57]

He finished the Work God gave Him to do !

He finished the Work God gave Him to do !

John 17:4

4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

Now what exactly was the Work that He finished ? Was it to make Salvation possible ? What about available ? No never, but it was everything needed to be done for the complete Salvation, the Saving of Gods Covenant People Israel, Remember the Promise Isa 45:17

17 But Israel shall be saved in the Lord with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

Thats His Work God gave Him to do, to ensure that that Promise comes into frution.

For this cause He was given a Covenant unto the People Isa 42:6-7

6 I the Lord have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;

7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.

These things constitute their Salvation from sin ! Now Christ the Lord did accomplish this Work, He executes everything needful for everyone of Israel [God's Elect from all Nations] to come into a Saving Knowledge of their Salvation by experience, He finished all things needed to accomplish that Jn 19:30

30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

Not one of them shall be Lost. They needed the Spirit to work effectually in their Lives in order for this to be done and accomplished, so thats why after complteing the Work of the Cross,God gave Him the Holy Spirit to pour upon all He had been given as a Covenant Head to Acts 2:32-33

32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

This act ensures that everyone for whom He died comes into the Saving Knowledge of the Truth 1 Tim 2:4

4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

And the And the Holy Ghost that Christ sheds upon them effects this outcome 2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

The Work of the Spirit through Christ fufills the Will of God the Father expressed in 1 Tim 2:4 !

 

[beloved57]

He finished the Work God gave Him to do ! 2

He finished the Work God gave Him to do ! 2

Now if this doesn't happen unto all for whom God desires to be saved and come into a Knowledge of the Truth as expressed in 1 Tim 2:4

4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Then Christ Lied here Jn 17:4

4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

And He was delusional and lied here Jn 19:30

30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

That word finished there means:

II.to perform, execute, complete, fulfil, (so that the thing done corresponds to what has been said, the order, command etc.)

God's Commandment from the Work of Christ is Everlasting Life Accomplished Jn 12:50

And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

God is NOT GLORIFIED if Christ did not finish all that needed to be finished that ensured the Execution of the Divine Purpose and Will which to seek and TO SAVE ALL that which was Lost Lk 19:10

10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

Christ has miserably failed if What He finished upon the completion of His Work does not effect that All whom God willed to be saved and come into the Knowledge of the Truth as Per 1 Tim 2:4, which is to experience Salvation in the belief of the Truth 2 Thess 2:13 !

 

[beloved57]

He finished the Work God gave Him to do ! 3

He finished the Work God gave Him to do ! 3

Now it cannot be said enough, unless 1 Tim 2:4 ; Lk 19:10 are performed successfully for all whom God desires it for, then again Christ did not finish the Work the Father gave Him to do as Per He said He did here Jn 17:4

4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

Now myself and every True Believer does believe Christ accomplished God's Will and desire, and that everyone God desired to be saved experimentally Lk 19:10; 1 Tim 2:4 is saved and shall be saved, and consequently any that are not saved and do remained in a lost state, then obviously they were not of the all of them that God desired to be saved , lest again we charge Christ with failure to Finish His Fathers Work given Him to do !

 

[beloved57]

He finished the Work God gave Him to do ! 4

He finished the Work God gave Him to do ! 4

Again, this cannot be overemphasized, If Christ's Death and Obedience did not ensure the Eternal Salvation of all whom His Father and God desired it for 1 Tim 2:4

4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Then scripture is also misleading when it reads thusly Isa 53:10

10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

" the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand."

It could read as well " the will or desire of the Lord shall prosper in his hand."

Now what is God's Desire in 1 Tim 2:4 ?

 

[beloved57]

He finished the Work God gave Him to do ! 5

He finished the Work God gave Him to do ! 5

We looked at the scripture Isa 53:10

10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

That word pleasure chephets which means:

desire, longing

And so could very well read Isa 53:10 thusly :

10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the desire of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

And the word prosper does mean to succeed !

The Desire or the Will of the Lord shall succeed in the Hand of Christ. We looked at that its God's desire that this happens 1 Tim 2:4

4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

That word will thelō means:

to desire, to wish

So it could read :

4 who desires that all men should be saved and come to [the] knowledge of [the] truth.

Now this desire in the Hand of Christ is suppose to succeed ! He is responsible for its accomplishment ! Look whats said here as to what He is suppose to accomplish for the Father Lk 19:10

10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

10 The Son of Man came to find lost people and save them.”

But now, If just one whom the Father God desired to be saved and come into the knowledge of the Truth, and it was certainly Christ's mission to loose nothing as depicted from His own Words here Jn 6:39

And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

Then how did the Pleasure, the Desire of the Lord prosper in His Hand ? Simply speaking, it did not ! If God desired all to be saved and yet one was not saved, Christ Lied when He said He finished the Work the Father gave Him to do Jn 17:4 there is no way to escape this crucial conclusion !

 

[beloved57]

Question here :

Is it possible for sinners that Christ died for, for their sins to be forgiven by God while they're in a unbelieving and rebellious state, much like as Paul was as saul persecuting the Church ? Yes or No ?

 

[Nanja]

Question here :

Is it possible for sinners that Christ died for, for their sins to be forgiven by God while they're in a unbelieving and rebellious state, much like as Paul was as saul persecuting the Church ? Yes or No ?

Yes, most assuredly! Each and every individual Christ died for John 10:11 has
total remission of sins even while being in an unbelieving and rebellious state.

Rom. 5
v.6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
v.7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
v.8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
v.9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
v.10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more,
being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

~~~~~

 

[Nanja]

Again, this cannot be overemphasized, If Christ's Death and Obedience did not ensure the Eternal Salvation of all whom His Father and God desired it for 1 Tim 2:4

4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Then scripture is also misleading when it reads thusly Isa 53:10

10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

" the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand."

It could read as well " the will or desire of the Lord shall prosper in his hand."

Now what is God's Desire in 1 Tim 2:4 ?

John 6:39
And this is the Father's will which hath sent me,
that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing,
but should raise it up again at the last day.

~~~~~

 

[beloved57]

Yes, most assuredly! Each and every individual Christ died for John 10:11 has
total remission of sins even while being in an unbelieving and rebellious state.

Rom. 5
v.6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
v.7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
v.8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
v.9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
v.10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more,
being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

~~~~~

You have answered according to the Truth !

 

[beloved57]

John 6:39
And this is the Father's will which hath sent me,
that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing,
but should raise it up again at the last day.

~~~~~

There you go, He will lose nothing !

 

[beloved57]

Redeem us from unbelief/iniquity !

Redeem us from unbelief/iniquity !

Titus 2:14

14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

If Christ died for anyone who doesnt eventually in this life, believe in Him, come to Live by Faith as it is written Rom 1:17

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

And if one for whom He died to redeem ends up as one of these Jn 8:24, dying in their sins in unbelief, then that means His Blood and or Redeeming Death failed the purpose of God to redeem them from all iniquity as Per Titus 2:14

14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

14 He gave himself for us in order to rescue us from every kind of lawless behavior, and cleanse a special people for himself who are eager to do good actions.CEB

14 He gave himself for us. He died to free us from all evil. He died to make us pure—people who belong only to him and who always want to do good.ERV

For he gave himself for us all, that he might rescue us from all our evil ways and make for himself a people of his own, clean and pure, with our hearts set upon living a life that is good.

Yes, His Death was for that Purpose, for the producing the results of " redeeming us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works."

Now if just one for whom He died comese short of His death producing that result for them, the Redemption in His Blood has failed the Purpose of God for it, and whosoever teaches that one for whom Christ died, can yet die in their sins and unbelief as Per Jn 8:24

24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.,

They are teaching wilfully that Christ's Death was a failure, which makes them the servant of antichrist, teaching something that is against the success and purpose of Christ's Death for all whom He died !

 

[beloved57]

Redeem us from unbelief/iniquity ! 2

Redeem us from unbelief/iniquity ! 2

Now Christ's Death, the giving of Himself for all whom He gave Himself for, His Church Titus 2:14

14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Eph 5:25

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

So the Us in Titus 2:14 is the Church of Eph 5:25 !

This giving of Himself was for the specific of redeeming them from all iniquity !

Now lets establish that this was indeed the Purpose of it, contained in the words of phrase "that he might redeem us from all iniquity"

This phrase is subjunctive that begins with the conjunction Hina, which means:

in order that, so that.

hína (a subordinating conjunction) – for the purpose that (in order that), looking to the aim (intended result) of the verbal idea.

a prim. conjunction denoting purpose, definition or result

The word denotes purpose in the greek, so that the purpose should be fulfilled, for instance Matt 1:22

22 Now all this was done, that/hina it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,

Matt 2:15

15 And was there until the death of Herod: that[hina] it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.

Hence, Christ gave Himself for all those He gave Himself for, that it might be fulfilled, that they are redeemed from all iniquity, and purified unto a peculiar people, zealous of good works !

The word purify in Titus 2:14 is the same greek word used in Acts 15:9

And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

This shows, gives evidence to the fact that Faith is in the intended result of Christ's redeeming death, its not from man !

So His death is responsible in the Purpose of God to bring about these results #1 Redemption from all iniquity, #2 and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

The word peculiar periousios means:

I.that which is one's own, belonging to one's possessions

A.a people selected by God from the other nations for his own possession

 

[beloved57]

Redeem us from unbelief/iniquity ! 3

Redeem us from unbelief/iniquity ! 3

Now what is one of the intended results of Christ's giving Himself for those He gave Himself for, the Church Eph 5:25

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;


BTW, thats the World Christ died for, the Whole World He is a Saviour unto, the Church ekklēsia or the called out ones, which is also His Body, which He is the Saviour of Eph 5:23

23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the Savior of the body.

And it is the Purpose of God through His Death, to redeem them from all Iniquity, and the word redeem from Titus 2:14 is the greek word lytroō and means:

I release on receipt of ransom; mid: I redeem, release by paying ransom, liberate.

Now accompanying this liberation by redemption, its effects after paying the ransom, which is the blood of Christ 1 Pet 1:18-19,

It effects a restoration :

"a ransom-price") – properly, to release (set free) by paying the full ransom; "to release, on receipt of ransom" (Vine); (figuratively) to restore "something back, into the possession of its rightful owner – i.e. rescuing from the power and possession of an alien possessor"

It rescues them from the power and possession of the devil who holds them captive 2 Tim 2:26

To be captive means:

taken and held as or as if a prisoner of war ,kept within bounds ,held under control of another but having the appearance of independence; especially : owned or controlled by another

This would be all of us by nature, under the power and control of the devil or as Paul says it in Eph 2:2

Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

Its the Kingdom/power of darkness that they are delivered from as here Col 1:13

13 Who hath delivered or rescued us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

Now Christ's redemptive blood, is suppose to deliver, rescue each one of the called out ones, those He died for, from the power of darkness, as well as translate them into the Kingdom of Christ, or else His Blood failed to redeem them !

All of you who are teaching and believing that one for Christ died can go to hell in unbelief and in their sins Jn 8:24, you are guilty of calling Christ's redemptive death a failure, it failed to redeem them and rescue them from the power of the devil, who holds mankind in unbelief !

 

[Nanja]

Now Christ's redemptive blood, is suppose to deliver, rescue each one of the called out ones, those He died for, from the power of darkness, as well as translate them into the Kingdom of Christ, or else His Blood failed to redeem them !

All of you who are teaching and believing that one for Christ died can go to hell in unbelief and in their sins Jn 8:24, you are guilty of calling Christ's redemptive death a failure, it failed to redeem them and rescue them from the power of the devil, who holds mankind in unbelief !

Yes! Christ shed His Blood for only the Church: His called out ones.

To teach and believe the lie that Christ died for all of mankind, even though Scripture testifies that
many will definitely die in their sins because Christ has declared them to be "cursed" Mat. 25:41,
is blasphemy against the efficaciousness of the Blood of Christ.

And that is exactly what the antichrist freewill religions so proudly teach and believe Prov. 16:18 !

~~~~~

 

[Daniel1611]

I've yet to hear from a Calvinist why, in the Bible sometimes "all" means all, and sometimes "all" means some. According to Calvinism, Christ wouldn't have needed to die. Calvinists say God creates people to go to hell. If that's true, Christ wouldn't need to die for our sins. Calvinism is a nonsensical man-made religion invented by an unsaved, murderous tyrant.

 

[Daniel1611]

"And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world." 1 John 2:2

 

[Nanja]

"And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world." 1 John 2:2

What 1 John 2:2 means is:

Christ is the propitiation of His Seed of all the families of the earth which are comprised of
the Spiritual Seed of Abraham: a Chosen Seed Gal. 3:29 from all the nations of the earth Gen 12:3.
This verse does not mean all of mankind without exception.

The same goes for 1 John 4:14. The world pertains to only His Sheep John 10:11, 15.
They are the people Salvation was promised to exclusively: Israel Is. 45:17.

~~~~~

 

[Dialogos]

I'm pretty convinced that you are totally ignorant about what Calvinists say and what Calvinism teaches.

Anyone who will claim that TULIP was invented by Calvin shows a total lack of familiarity with Calvinism...

This post just lends more evidence to that conclusion.

I've yet to hear from a Calvinist why, in the Bible sometimes "all" means all, and sometimes "all" means some.

All in Greek is πας, πασα, παν.

Which can be defined in the following way:
everything belonging, in kind, to the class designated by the noun, every kind of, all sorts of, as it does in Matthew 4:23.

According to Calvinism, Christ wouldn't have needed to die.

This is totally wrong. No Calvinist believes this.

Calvinists say God creates people to go to hell.

Wrong again. Calvinists believe that God created man in His own image, but they fell into sin and that all of Adam's offspring, with the single exception of Jesus Christ, are sinners who have earned hell as the just consequences of their sin.

If that's true...

Its not.