my wife and I were confronted by one at the gas station
my wife told her to talk to me
I was very nice
but
did say that
Jesus is God
Standing Up To Jehovah's Witnesses
- Thread starter WeberHome
- Start date
my wife and I were confronted by one at the gas station
my wife told her to talk to me
I was very nice
but
did say that
Jesus is God
Ben Masada
New member
That reminds me of the couple that comes by Saturday in the afternoon. They say upfront that all I need to do is to listen to them. If I try to express my opinion, they stand and go. I asked for the meaning of this attitude and they told me they are not supposed to learn anything from another because they already have all the truth.
truthjourney
New member
Oh yes indeed. That is what they say.
WeberHome
New member
-
The Watch Tower Society insists that human life is entirely physical-- people
cease to exist when their bodies expire. The Society substantiates its
doctrine with some things that Solomon wrote in the book of Ecclesiastes.
Traditional Christianity insists that human life is more than physical-- people
continue to exist beyond the demise of their bodies. Traditional Christianity
substantiates its doctrine with some things that Jesus Christ spoke in the
New Testament.
Solomon was a very wise man and the brightest intellectual of his day. But
Christ claimed that his wisdom is superior to Solomon's.
†. Luke 11:31 . .The queen of the south will be raised up in the judgment
with the men of this generation and will condemn them; because she came
from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon, but, look!
Something more than Solomon is here.
Solomon's understanding was limited, but Christ's is exceedingly vast.
†. Col 2:3 . . In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.
Traditional Christianity casts its vote for Christ primarily because it believes
that no man could possibly know more about the afterlife than he; and also
because it is God's edict that people listen to His son.
†. Matt 17:5 . . While Peter was still speaking, behold, a bright cloud
overshadowed them; and behold, a voice out of the cloud, saying: This is My
beloved son, with whom I am well-pleased; listen to him.
No doubt Solomon was inspired to put his world view in writing; but Christ
was more than inspired to say the things he spoke; the things he spoke
came directly from God.
†. John 3:34-35 . . For he is sent by God. He speaks God's words; for God's
Spirit is upon him without measure or limit.
†. John 8:26 . . He that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those
things which I have heard of Him.
†. John 8:28 . . I speak these things as the Father taught me.
†. John 12:49 . . I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me,
He gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
†. John 14:24 . .The word which you hear is not mine, but the Father's who
sent me.
In other words; people who take sides with Solomon against Jesus Christ
have taken sides against God; and the repercussions of their choice are
disastrous to say the least.
†. John 3:18 . .Whoever believes in His son is not condemned, but whoever
disbelieves stands condemned already
†. John 3:36 . . He that disbelieves the Son shall not see life; but the wrath
of God abides on him.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
The Watch Tower Society insists that human life is entirely physical-- people
cease to exist when their bodies expire. The Society substantiates its
doctrine with some things that Solomon wrote in the book of Ecclesiastes.
Traditional Christianity insists that human life is more than physical-- people
continue to exist beyond the demise of their bodies. Traditional Christianity
substantiates its doctrine with some things that Jesus Christ spoke in the
New Testament.
Solomon was a very wise man and the brightest intellectual of his day. But
Christ claimed that his wisdom is superior to Solomon's.
†. Luke 11:31 . .The queen of the south will be raised up in the judgment
with the men of this generation and will condemn them; because she came
from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon, but, look!
Something more than Solomon is here.
Solomon's understanding was limited, but Christ's is exceedingly vast.
†. Col 2:3 . . In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.
Traditional Christianity casts its vote for Christ primarily because it believes
that no man could possibly know more about the afterlife than he; and also
because it is God's edict that people listen to His son.
†. Matt 17:5 . . While Peter was still speaking, behold, a bright cloud
overshadowed them; and behold, a voice out of the cloud, saying: This is My
beloved son, with whom I am well-pleased; listen to him.
No doubt Solomon was inspired to put his world view in writing; but Christ
was more than inspired to say the things he spoke; the things he spoke
came directly from God.
†. John 3:34-35 . . For he is sent by God. He speaks God's words; for God's
Spirit is upon him without measure or limit.
†. John 8:26 . . He that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those
things which I have heard of Him.
†. John 8:28 . . I speak these things as the Father taught me.
†. John 12:49 . . I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me,
He gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
†. John 14:24 . .The word which you hear is not mine, but the Father's who
sent me.
In other words; people who take sides with Solomon against Jesus Christ
have taken sides against God; and the repercussions of their choice are
disastrous to say the least.
†. John 3:18 . .Whoever believes in His son is not condemned, but whoever
disbelieves stands condemned already
†. John 3:36 . . He that disbelieves the Son shall not see life; but the wrath
of God abides on him.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
WeberHome
New member
-
†. 2Tim 3:16 . . All scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching,
for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness
As every competent Bible student knows: though all scripture is inspired by
God, not all scripture is true. For example:
"At this the serpent said to the woman: You positively will not die." (Gen
3:4)
The serpent's statement is on record due to the inspiration of God: but the
serpent's statement is false.
Here's another:
"But as for eating of the fruit of the tree that is in the middle of the garden,
God has said: You must not eat from it, no, you must not touch it that you
do not die." (Gen 3:3)
Though Eve's statement is in the record due to the inspiration of God, her
statement is not entirely true. He didn't say Adam must not touch the fruit.
Ecclesiastes is in the record due to the inspiration of God: and though it
contains many truisms, not all that it contains is true. Solomon (if that's who
actually wrote it) didn't record his observations from the perspective of a
spiritual man who's privy to special knowledge beyond the scope of empirical
evidence: but rather, he recorded his observations from the perspective of a
man under the sun: viz: a worldly intellectual whose perception of reality is
moderated by what he can see going on around him in the physical rather
than what he cannot see going on around him in the non-physical: and
that's pretty much why it's so easy to find material in Ecclesiastes contrary
to the doctrines of traditional Christianity.
Ecclesiastes is popular with agnostics and atheists because it agrees, to a
very large extent, with their own secular philosophies; viz: Solomon's
observations are primarily an evaluation of life on earth as seen from the
earth rather than an evaluation of life on earth as seen from heaven. In
other words: he spoke of life from the perspective of empirical evidence and
human experience.
Solomon spoke of death; but there's no textual evidence in the book of
Ecclesiastes indicating that he had ever seen beyond death for himself to
know what he was talking about. In contrast, there is an abundance of
textual evidence indicating that Jesus Christ not only spoke of death, but he
had seen beyond death for himself to know what he was talking about. (e.g.
John 3:13, John 3:31-32, John 6:33, John 6:38, and 1John 1:1-3)
So in my estimation, Christ's eye-witness reports carry far more weight than
Solomon's opinions. Solomon's perspective was pretty much limited to what
he could see for himself; while the traditional Christian perspective is
enhanced by things that Christ can see for himself.
Q: So then, in what way is Ecclesiastes beneficial for teaching, for reproving,
for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness?
A: It's very valuable for showing that life sans the divine perspective is
meaningless. Humankind needs to believe in something higher than itself
just to make sense of why people exist at all.
Nobel Prize winner, author of several best-selling books, and recipient of at
least a dozen honorary degrees; physicist Steven Weinberg (who views
religion as an enemy of science), in his book "The First Three Minutes"
wrote: The more the universe seems comprehensible, the more it seems
pointless. But if there is no solace in the fruits of our research, there is at
least some consolation in the research itself . . . the effort to understand the
universe is one of the very few things that lifts human life a little above the
level of a farce and gives it some of the grace of tragedy.
Well of course Mr. Weinberg feels that way. How else could a thinking man
feel when he believes in nothing higher than himself?
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
†. 2Tim 3:16 . . All scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching,
for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness
As every competent Bible student knows: though all scripture is inspired by
God, not all scripture is true. For example:
"At this the serpent said to the woman: You positively will not die." (Gen
3:4)
The serpent's statement is on record due to the inspiration of God: but the
serpent's statement is false.
Here's another:
"But as for eating of the fruit of the tree that is in the middle of the garden,
God has said: You must not eat from it, no, you must not touch it that you
do not die." (Gen 3:3)
Though Eve's statement is in the record due to the inspiration of God, her
statement is not entirely true. He didn't say Adam must not touch the fruit.
Ecclesiastes is in the record due to the inspiration of God: and though it
contains many truisms, not all that it contains is true. Solomon (if that's who
actually wrote it) didn't record his observations from the perspective of a
spiritual man who's privy to special knowledge beyond the scope of empirical
evidence: but rather, he recorded his observations from the perspective of a
man under the sun: viz: a worldly intellectual whose perception of reality is
moderated by what he can see going on around him in the physical rather
than what he cannot see going on around him in the non-physical: and
that's pretty much why it's so easy to find material in Ecclesiastes contrary
to the doctrines of traditional Christianity.
Ecclesiastes is popular with agnostics and atheists because it agrees, to a
very large extent, with their own secular philosophies; viz: Solomon's
observations are primarily an evaluation of life on earth as seen from the
earth rather than an evaluation of life on earth as seen from heaven. In
other words: he spoke of life from the perspective of empirical evidence and
human experience.
Solomon spoke of death; but there's no textual evidence in the book of
Ecclesiastes indicating that he had ever seen beyond death for himself to
know what he was talking about. In contrast, there is an abundance of
textual evidence indicating that Jesus Christ not only spoke of death, but he
had seen beyond death for himself to know what he was talking about. (e.g.
John 3:13, John 3:31-32, John 6:33, John 6:38, and 1John 1:1-3)
So in my estimation, Christ's eye-witness reports carry far more weight than
Solomon's opinions. Solomon's perspective was pretty much limited to what
he could see for himself; while the traditional Christian perspective is
enhanced by things that Christ can see for himself.
Q: So then, in what way is Ecclesiastes beneficial for teaching, for reproving,
for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness?
A: It's very valuable for showing that life sans the divine perspective is
meaningless. Humankind needs to believe in something higher than itself
just to make sense of why people exist at all.
Nobel Prize winner, author of several best-selling books, and recipient of at
least a dozen honorary degrees; physicist Steven Weinberg (who views
religion as an enemy of science), in his book "The First Three Minutes"
wrote: The more the universe seems comprehensible, the more it seems
pointless. But if there is no solace in the fruits of our research, there is at
least some consolation in the research itself . . . the effort to understand the
universe is one of the very few things that lifts human life a little above the
level of a farce and gives it some of the grace of tragedy.
Well of course Mr. Weinberg feels that way. How else could a thinking man
feel when he believes in nothing higher than himself?
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
andyc
New member
The big problem in talking with JWs is that they are humanists first, christians second. And so when they come round the doors they try to appeal to humanistic logic in their reasoning. "The world would be a better place if.........".
When the person on the doorstep agrees, the JW then goes on to explain how the world shall be refashioned into the kind of better place that appeals to humanistic ideologies.
JWs have no relationship with God, because they believe their day to day duties are earning them favor with God in order to win their future paradise resurrection.
Their view of God is from an old covenant perspective except for the Mosaic law. They look for a future resurrection as reward for an obedient life. The obedience is actually to the WBTS, not to God, but NT scripture demands obedience to faith.
Their minds are so immersed in humanism, that it makes very difficult to get them to see and understand the spiritual. For them it's a little bit like looking at a holiday brochure with pictures of a paradise location. The JW longs to inherit this paradise with all the materialistic hopes and dreams that go along with it. BUT the desire to be with Jesus and the Father is totally absent.
Paul said, "my desire is to depart and be with Christ", which was everything to him. But the JW doesn't want this at all. They want a paradise world away from God, because they believe that God is not approachable, and that man is meant to be vastly inferior, and the two should be apart.
And so if the JW is so consumed with humanistic ideologies, they'll have no desire to actually know the truth, because they do not want to know Christ. Only the benefits from acknowledging who he is from a watchtower perspective.
When the person on the doorstep agrees, the JW then goes on to explain how the world shall be refashioned into the kind of better place that appeals to humanistic ideologies.
JWs have no relationship with God, because they believe their day to day duties are earning them favor with God in order to win their future paradise resurrection.
Their view of God is from an old covenant perspective except for the Mosaic law. They look for a future resurrection as reward for an obedient life. The obedience is actually to the WBTS, not to God, but NT scripture demands obedience to faith.
Their minds are so immersed in humanism, that it makes very difficult to get them to see and understand the spiritual. For them it's a little bit like looking at a holiday brochure with pictures of a paradise location. The JW longs to inherit this paradise with all the materialistic hopes and dreams that go along with it. BUT the desire to be with Jesus and the Father is totally absent.
Paul said, "my desire is to depart and be with Christ", which was everything to him. But the JW doesn't want this at all. They want a paradise world away from God, because they believe that God is not approachable, and that man is meant to be vastly inferior, and the two should be apart.
And so if the JW is so consumed with humanistic ideologies, they'll have no desire to actually know the truth, because they do not want to know Christ. Only the benefits from acknowledging who he is from a watchtower perspective.
Someone's apparently butt hurt by this post, so let me elaborate.
You open the door. You give a big, giant yell directly at them mid swing between 'have a moment' and 'to talk about', and then slam the door at a swift horizontal angle.
Soliciting a religion in a neighborhood you know is predominantly Protestant, as is the country, is ridiculous. Find other methods that don't simply exist to rub it in people's faces.
WeberHome
New member
-
Fiction can be defined as stories about people and events that, though
untrue; are plausible; viz: realistic.
Fantasy can be defined as stories about people and events that are not only
untrue; but implausible; viz: unrealistic.
For example: a story about a boy like Pinocchio is unrealistic; while a story
about a boy with autism is realistic. The difference between Pinocchio and a
boy with autism is that the one is compatible with normal reality; while the
other is far removed from normal reality.
I have yet to read even one of Jesus Christ's parables that could not possibly
be a real-life story. They're all actually quite believable-- farmers sowing
seed, women losing coins, sons leaving home, wineskins bursting, tares
among the wheat, leavened bread, barren fig trees, the blind leading the
blind, et al.
Now; if he had told one that alleged the moon was made of green cheese;
we would have good reason to believe that at least that one was fantasy;
but none of them are like that. At best; Christ's parables might qualify as
fiction; but never fantasy because none of them are so far removed from
normal reality that there is no possible chance of it ever being true.
Luke 16:19-31 is commonly alleged to be a parable; which of course implies
that the story is fiction; and some would even say fantasy. But the parable
theory has a fatal flaw. Abraham is neither fiction nor fantasy: he's a real life
man; held in very high esteem by at least three of the world's prominent
religions: Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. And he's also the friend of God
(2Chrn 20:27, Isa 41:8). I simply cannot believe that Jesus Christ-- a man
famous among normal Christians for his honesty and integrity --would say
something untrue about a famous real-life man; especially about whom it's
said is one of his Father's buddies.
And on top of that, the story quotes Abraham a number of times. Well; if the
story is fiction, then Jesus Christ is on record testifying that Abraham said
things that he didn't really say; which is a clear violation of the
commandment that prohibits bearing false witness.
There is something else to consider.
The story of the rich man and Lazarus didn't originate with Jesus Christ. No,
it originated with his Father. In other words: Jesus Christ was micro
managed.
†. John 3:34 . . He is sent by God. He speaks God's words
†. John 8:26 . . He that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those
things which I have heard of Him.
†. John 8:28 . . I do nothing on my own initiative, but I speak these things
as the Father taught me.
†. John 12:49 . . I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me,
He gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
†. John 14:24 . .The word which you hear is not mine, but the Father's who
sent me.
So, by implying that Luke 16:19-31 is false, the parable theory insinuates
that God is a person of marginal integrity who can't be trusted to tell the
truth about people, not even about His own friends, which is ridiculous
seeing as how Titus 1:2 and Heb 6:18 testify that God cannot lie.
FYI: Luke 16:27 reveals that people in the rich man's situation suffer
anxiety worrying about their relatives.
Can you just imagine the shock, the horror, and the terror that kicks
deceased Jehovah's Witnesses in the guts when they find themselves in the
same situation? Well; that's all they need to instantly realize that traditional
Christianity has been right about hell all along and the Watch Tower Society
is a Judas goat.
But that's not the worst of it. Just think of all the Jehovah's Witness parents
who have actually trained their own children to follow mom and dad down
there. How do people bear the torment of something like that on their
conscience?
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Fiction can be defined as stories about people and events that, though
untrue; are plausible; viz: realistic.
Fantasy can be defined as stories about people and events that are not only
untrue; but implausible; viz: unrealistic.
For example: a story about a boy like Pinocchio is unrealistic; while a story
about a boy with autism is realistic. The difference between Pinocchio and a
boy with autism is that the one is compatible with normal reality; while the
other is far removed from normal reality.
I have yet to read even one of Jesus Christ's parables that could not possibly
be a real-life story. They're all actually quite believable-- farmers sowing
seed, women losing coins, sons leaving home, wineskins bursting, tares
among the wheat, leavened bread, barren fig trees, the blind leading the
blind, et al.
Now; if he had told one that alleged the moon was made of green cheese;
we would have good reason to believe that at least that one was fantasy;
but none of them are like that. At best; Christ's parables might qualify as
fiction; but never fantasy because none of them are so far removed from
normal reality that there is no possible chance of it ever being true.
Luke 16:19-31 is commonly alleged to be a parable; which of course implies
that the story is fiction; and some would even say fantasy. But the parable
theory has a fatal flaw. Abraham is neither fiction nor fantasy: he's a real life
man; held in very high esteem by at least three of the world's prominent
religions: Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. And he's also the friend of God
(2Chrn 20:27, Isa 41:8). I simply cannot believe that Jesus Christ-- a man
famous among normal Christians for his honesty and integrity --would say
something untrue about a famous real-life man; especially about whom it's
said is one of his Father's buddies.
And on top of that, the story quotes Abraham a number of times. Well; if the
story is fiction, then Jesus Christ is on record testifying that Abraham said
things that he didn't really say; which is a clear violation of the
commandment that prohibits bearing false witness.
There is something else to consider.
The story of the rich man and Lazarus didn't originate with Jesus Christ. No,
it originated with his Father. In other words: Jesus Christ was micro
managed.
†. John 3:34 . . He is sent by God. He speaks God's words
†. John 8:26 . . He that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those
things which I have heard of Him.
†. John 8:28 . . I do nothing on my own initiative, but I speak these things
as the Father taught me.
†. John 12:49 . . I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me,
He gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
†. John 14:24 . .The word which you hear is not mine, but the Father's who
sent me.
So, by implying that Luke 16:19-31 is false, the parable theory insinuates
that God is a person of marginal integrity who can't be trusted to tell the
truth about people, not even about His own friends, which is ridiculous
seeing as how Titus 1:2 and Heb 6:18 testify that God cannot lie.
FYI: Luke 16:27 reveals that people in the rich man's situation suffer
anxiety worrying about their relatives.
Can you just imagine the shock, the horror, and the terror that kicks
deceased Jehovah's Witnesses in the guts when they find themselves in the
same situation? Well; that's all they need to instantly realize that traditional
Christianity has been right about hell all along and the Watch Tower Society
is a Judas goat.
But that's not the worst of it. Just think of all the Jehovah's Witness parents
who have actually trained their own children to follow mom and dad down
there. How do people bear the torment of something like that on their
conscience?
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
WeberHome
New member
-
The Watch Tower Society uses the passage below to substantiate its doctrine
that people go out of existence when they die.
†. Ps 146:4 . . His spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground; In that day
his thoughts do perish.
The Hebrew word for "thoughts" is 'eshtonah (esh-to-naw') which means:
thinking.
Unfortunately, Ps 146:4 is the only place in the entire Old Testament where
'eshtonah appears so we can't compare its uses in other contexts. However,
according to Webster's the word "thinking" is an ambiguous word with quite
a variety of meanings to choose from; including, but not limited to:
concerns, anticipations, conceptions, opinions, imaginations, visualizations,
ideas, epiphanies, plans, schemes, fantasies, arguments, deliberations, and
the like.
For example: consider all those people who perished in the World Trade
Center, in the Japan and Indonesia tsunamis, and the Haiti earthquake.
None of them woke that day planning on it being their last on earth. No, on
the contrary; they had people to see, places to go, and things to do: but
before the day ended; whatever was on their minds lost its importance-
their priorities went right out the window and became no more significant
than green cheese on the moon. All their plans, their dreams, their
schedules, their schemes, their problems, their ambitions, their loves, and
their aspirations went right down the tubes as they were suddenly
confronted with a whole new reality to cope with.
So then, an alternative to the Watch Tower Society's theology is that people
don't go out of existence when they die. Their cognitive processes don't stop
working; no, Ps 146:4 only means that whatever was on their minds while
they were alive is now out of mind; viz: null and void.
Take for example Michael Jackson. While working on a new world tour,
Jackson died in his sleep. As a result; his tour wrapped on the spot.
When my eldest nephew was paroled from prison, he quit drinking, and
began going to college to become a counselor. For 2½ years all went well.
His parole officer was happy, and he was on track and getting good grades.
My nephew's future looked assured.
And then on the morning of Sept 25, 2015, he dropped dead to the floor.
My nephew's passing was a terrible disappointment to everybody; but
actually we all kind of expected it. He was grossly overweight, had high
blood pressure and high cholesterol, rarely exercised, and smoked. But the
point is; my nephew's dream ended just as abruptly as flipping a light
switch. And all of our hopes for his success ended the same way.
The "spirit goes out" refers to the breath of life that God blew into Adam's
nostrils in the book of Genesis. That breath (a.k.a. life force) served but one
purpose and that was to energize Adam's body (cf. Jas 2:26). But there is
much more to human life than a body.
How does the human brain, a 3-pound lump of flabby organic tissue,
produce the phenomena of memory, consciousness, individuality, and self
awareness? Why do humans have a sense of justice, of fair play, and a
desire for revenge? Why do humans prefer to be right rather than wrong?
Why be right and/or wrong at all? Why do humans want their lives to count
for something? Why aren't humans amoral like the other creatures?
Butterflies are free, why aren't we?
Those kinds of questions cannot be answered on a physical level. There is an
element to human life that is above and beyond an organic explanation.
One of the strongest proofs that people continue to exist beyond the demise
of their bodies is Jonah. While the prophet's corpse reposed in the tummy of
a fish, Jonah went to a place that he described as the bottoms of the
mountains. From thence he prayed for recovery; and was granted his
request.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
The Watch Tower Society uses the passage below to substantiate its doctrine
that people go out of existence when they die.
†. Ps 146:4 . . His spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground; In that day
his thoughts do perish.
The Hebrew word for "thoughts" is 'eshtonah (esh-to-naw') which means:
thinking.
Unfortunately, Ps 146:4 is the only place in the entire Old Testament where
'eshtonah appears so we can't compare its uses in other contexts. However,
according to Webster's the word "thinking" is an ambiguous word with quite
a variety of meanings to choose from; including, but not limited to:
concerns, anticipations, conceptions, opinions, imaginations, visualizations,
ideas, epiphanies, plans, schemes, fantasies, arguments, deliberations, and
the like.
For example: consider all those people who perished in the World Trade
Center, in the Japan and Indonesia tsunamis, and the Haiti earthquake.
None of them woke that day planning on it being their last on earth. No, on
the contrary; they had people to see, places to go, and things to do: but
before the day ended; whatever was on their minds lost its importance-
their priorities went right out the window and became no more significant
than green cheese on the moon. All their plans, their dreams, their
schedules, their schemes, their problems, their ambitions, their loves, and
their aspirations went right down the tubes as they were suddenly
confronted with a whole new reality to cope with.
So then, an alternative to the Watch Tower Society's theology is that people
don't go out of existence when they die. Their cognitive processes don't stop
working; no, Ps 146:4 only means that whatever was on their minds while
they were alive is now out of mind; viz: null and void.
Take for example Michael Jackson. While working on a new world tour,
Jackson died in his sleep. As a result; his tour wrapped on the spot.
When my eldest nephew was paroled from prison, he quit drinking, and
began going to college to become a counselor. For 2½ years all went well.
His parole officer was happy, and he was on track and getting good grades.
My nephew's future looked assured.
And then on the morning of Sept 25, 2015, he dropped dead to the floor.
My nephew's passing was a terrible disappointment to everybody; but
actually we all kind of expected it. He was grossly overweight, had high
blood pressure and high cholesterol, rarely exercised, and smoked. But the
point is; my nephew's dream ended just as abruptly as flipping a light
switch. And all of our hopes for his success ended the same way.
The "spirit goes out" refers to the breath of life that God blew into Adam's
nostrils in the book of Genesis. That breath (a.k.a. life force) served but one
purpose and that was to energize Adam's body (cf. Jas 2:26). But there is
much more to human life than a body.
How does the human brain, a 3-pound lump of flabby organic tissue,
produce the phenomena of memory, consciousness, individuality, and self
awareness? Why do humans have a sense of justice, of fair play, and a
desire for revenge? Why do humans prefer to be right rather than wrong?
Why be right and/or wrong at all? Why do humans want their lives to count
for something? Why aren't humans amoral like the other creatures?
Butterflies are free, why aren't we?
Those kinds of questions cannot be answered on a physical level. There is an
element to human life that is above and beyond an organic explanation.
One of the strongest proofs that people continue to exist beyond the demise
of their bodies is Jonah. While the prophet's corpse reposed in the tummy of
a fish, Jonah went to a place that he described as the bottoms of the
mountains. From thence he prayed for recovery; and was granted his
request.
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Ben Masada
New member
You must be one of them to speak like that in their favor.
keypurr
Well-known member
What is a better way to stand up to them?
keypurr
Well-known member
It is never a waste of time to teach what you know about God.
The JWs are no worse than 99% of the churches that call themselves Christ followers.
keypurr
Well-known member
Yes there are MANY contradictions in the Bible. Many of which are translation errors and changes. I would guess that is why we need to prove all things friend. The original ms were inspired, not so much the translations. That why I rely on many translations to find the content. This is true of both the OT and the NT.