Should we pay tithes to be bless and free?
- Thread starter c.moore
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c.moore
New member
Originally posted by jeremiah
To c.moore:
I have read a few pages here and there, but there are too many to read at this point. So if these questions have been asked or suggestions made, please forgive me. This was your Father's money, right. Had he already tithed on it? If so you would be making a double tithe since this money is now rightfully yours and biblically yours, by inheritance. You may be thinking like the IRS thinks, rather than how God thinks.
Since the Lord loves a cheerful giver and there is discord between you and your wife, why not call this $40,000 a "free will offering" to the Father. Let yourself and your wife sit down, pray, and make a list of God's people and organizations that you want to bless for Him. Then let each of you pick one at a time and give equal or appropriate amounts to each. Enjoy the ability to handle and be responsible with what God has given you!
Because the tithes teaching is only to go to the church you are a member of the corn house , and no where else.
Plus this is from my father death will with I recieved or we will recieve over a million dollars.
So my father couldn`t have payed tithes on the money and if he did , that is his own tithes we can`t tithes for someone else juist like we can`t get saved for someone else unless you are a mormon or an catholic parent.
God Bless
c.moore
New member
I wish my pastors and bishops and other tv ministry would believe or see it as witchcraft, which they have proved it is a blessing and have shown the doors of heaven open for them and others.
Mal:3:10: Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.
this is what my church stand on and build their faith on .
Sozo
New member
I see... so then your "church" is made up of the sons of Jacob, and you belong to the house of Israel?
Your faith is in the Law, and not in Christ.
"How can you believe, when you receive glory from one another, and you do not seek the glory that is from the one and only God? "Do not think that I will accuse you before the Father; the one who accuses you is Moses, in whom you have set your hope."
elected4ever
New member
c.moore
e4e --------Why would you wish these folks see it as witchcraft unless you already know that it is? They have been proven a blessing? What doors of haven have been opened? God now has to be bribed to bless his children? According to you God now plays favorites.
e4e --------Why would you wish these folks see it as witchcraft unless you already know that it is? They have been proven a blessing? What doors of haven have been opened? God now has to be bribed to bless his children? According to you God now plays favorites.
Thank you. It was a very difficult experience on Mother's day a year ago. It involved a travelling American group. God intervened. She lost her innocence, but not her virginity. She was not raped. We are all doing good and eventually saw policies change in the group and a formal apology through a lawyer from the assailant. We were able to be a witness in the year of dealings we had with the situation. We were able to resolve things out of court to spare her testifying.
We do not give to get. This is a wrong motive. There is a principle of giving in Scripture. Mt. 6 says that we can expect the providential, responsible Creator to meet our needs as we seek Him first. Paul did say the church at Phillipi were blessed for there generous giving to others out of their own lack. There is a blessing (not necessarily financial) in giving to others, including God.
God can bless whether we give or not.
It is more blessed to give than receive.
He who refreshes others will be refreshed himself.
Coould you expand on the witchcraft/occult connection? There may be an element of this in some contexts, but I think giving to get is simply a false teaching in Word-Faith circles that relates to the flesh and wrong motives.
If giving resulted in getting from demonic sources, then I might call it witchcraft. I do not think an occultist would see giving to get as a core belief in their system.
NT reality often builds on OT shadows/types.
Malachi is not a prescription for the Church. This does not mean that there is not an applicable, everlasting PRINCIPLE in the passage for us.
God judges in the OT. God blesses obedience in the OT and curses for disobedience.
Malachi shows the heart of God for His people. This character quality persists in the NT. There can be a godly principle and spirit behind the letter of the law.
Jesus used the OT. I would not be quick to negate legit. principles from the OT that are not rescinded. The essence of some principles in the OT are continued in the NT or expanded on.
The NT does not change the gist of the heart of God in the Malachi passage. cf. judgments in the prophets had a primary meaning for the people or nations in the OT. There are principles that apply to the people of God or the wicked nations through all generations.
The OT shows God's ways with His people. Timothy says all Scripture is profitable for believers/the church. This was a reference to the LXX or OT, the Bible of Jesus and the very early church. The principle now applies to the NT canon.
We must recognize the distinction between the Old Covenant Law and the NT law of grace in our hearts rather than on tablets of stone. They are not contradictory, but progressive evolution.
e.g. murder..>hate; adultery....>lust, etc.
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You cannot go wrong giving systematically and proportionately to God and His work. He does honor love and obedience and opposes materialism, greed, and selfishness.
Using the tithe as a non-legalistic guideline does not put one under the Law. NT believers can and should exceed the Law out of love and service to Christ.
This debate is becoming a semantical issue. No one is suggesting we put ourself under the Law. Nor are we to break the spirit of the Law. We should not murder, but also not hate. We should not commit adultery, but also not lust. The moral law of God has eternal application. The ceremonial law of Moses has principles of wisdom, but is geared more to ancient Judaism.
Using the tithe as a non-legalistic guideline does not put one under the Law. NT believers can and should exceed the Law out of love and service to Christ.
This debate is becoming a semantical issue. No one is suggesting we put ourself under the Law. Nor are we to break the spirit of the Law. We should not murder, but also not hate. We should not commit adultery, but also not lust. The moral law of God has eternal application. The ceremonial law of Moses has principles of wisdom, but is geared more to ancient Judaism.
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c.moore
New member
so is tithes just an old testament Issue??
Ro:15:4: For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.
Le:27:30: And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD's: it is holy unto the LORD.
Le:27:32: And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, even of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the LORD.
This is what I hear all the time that it is not a law or legalism but it is just Holy unto the Lord.
So the tithes teaches it is also in the new testament:
M't:23:23: Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
Lu:11:42: But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
Heb:5:10: Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.
Ge:14:18: And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.
Ge:14:19: And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth:
Ge:14:20: And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all.
people say when we tithes today we are presenting the tithes to Jesus our high priest.
to not to tithes is hindering God`s ability to bless enpower, and to prosper.
Mal 3:8.9.
What do you think about this teaching???
This is notes I have taken from Creflo Dolloar teachings on tithes and prosperity.
Ro:15:4: For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.
Le:27:30: And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD's: it is holy unto the LORD.
Le:27:32: And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, even of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the LORD.
This is what I hear all the time that it is not a law or legalism but it is just Holy unto the Lord.
So the tithes teaches it is also in the new testament:
M't:23:23: Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
Lu:11:42: But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
Heb:5:10: Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.
Ge:14:18: And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.
Ge:14:19: And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth:
Ge:14:20: And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all.
people say when we tithes today we are presenting the tithes to Jesus our high priest.
to not to tithes is hindering God`s ability to bless enpower, and to prosper.
Mal 3:8.9.
What do you think about this teaching???
This is notes I have taken from Creflo Dolloar teachings on tithes and prosperity.
Do you see that if your father tithed on the million, then you inherit that million, you would not need to tithe on it again?
The tithe would then apply to the increase that the million dollars makes for you in profitable investments.
Here is how the IRS thinks. An 80 year old greatgrandfather sells the family business that he founded, for a million dollar profit. He dies. His 60 year old son inherits it, pays 30% to the IRS,etc. He dies as soon as the estate closes. His 40 year old son, pays 30%. He dies as soon as the estate closes. The 21 year old greatgrandson inherits the remainder, pays the 30%, buys an average priced house, and a couple of nice cars, with the remainder of the $343.000. He then puts $50,000 in the bank for a rainy day and works hard the rest of his life.
If you tithe each time, as well then you are left with $226,000. His greatgrandson can not even afford to buy an average house, even in the Denver metroplex.
Since you want to be biblical with the tithe, then you need to be biblical with the rights of inheritance. This million dollars is rightfully and biblically yours. It has not really passed hands in the biblical sense. Only governments see this money as having passed from one hand to the other, and want to make you think that way, so that you will agree to pay taxes on it for the benefit of the government.
Did your father tithe on his million? NO? Then tithe for your father, to the priesthood, at the local church, and say, forgive him Father for he knew not what he was doing? If he did, or if you are not sure, then make it a Biblical free will offering, and give some to the widow down the street or the orphanage across town perhaps.
May God bless you with such wonderful choices to make
elected4ever
New member
There was a guy a while back that felt that he was obligated to give to the needy every time someone held there hand out and give him a sob story. He was so bad that he would give his employers money away. All you had to do was ask. He used the following scripture to justify his action; 1 John 3:17 Â_But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him? No discernment led to theft and the man blamed God because he lost his job. If you tithe at the expense of your family's welfare your make God a partaker of your evil deed and you will blame God for your misery. I have seen it a thousand times and these preachers that preach giving to get teach just that. They dupe the desperate out of there money and then say that you didn't have enough faith. These people are prophets of hell and not heaven.
Originally posted by elected4ever
There was a guy a while back that felt that he was obligated to give to the needy every time someone held there hand out and give him a sob story. He was so bad that he would give his employers money away. All you had to do was ask. He used the following scripture to justify his action; 1 John 3:17 �_But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him? No discernment led to theft and the man blamed God because he lost his job. If you tithe at the expense of your family's welfare your make God a partaker of your evil deed and you will blame God for your misery. I have seen it a thousand times and these preachers that preach giving to get teach just that. They dupe the desperate out of there money and then say that you didn't have enough faith. These people are prophets of hell and not heaven.
Giving $40,000/$1 million as cmoore is considering will not leave his family destitute.
Sozo, bad idea to give 5% to TOL and 5% to Hinn...I agree! May I commend www.gfa.org as a worthy cause?
This ministry has integrity, accountability, and effectiveness. 100% of your $30/month or more goes to the mission field. This has been my best eternal investment over the last 20 years.
The free book, Revolution in World Missions, is challenging.
The video is anointed, is it not? This is the Father-heart of the Lord of the harvest. A creative, new stragegy shift has occurred away from colonial missions.
Rather than quibbling about tithing, let us get on with the work of the Kingdom.
The free book, Revolution in World Missions, is challenging.
The video is anointed, is it not? This is the Father-heart of the Lord of the harvest. A creative, new stragegy shift has occurred away from colonial missions.
Rather than quibbling about tithing, let us get on with the work of the Kingdom.
drbrumley
Well-known member
C. Moore,
I noticed your post on "Heretics message to be saved" thread, and let me just say, these two topics that we are both a part of, comes down to the same thing. Do we follow the law? Tithing is out of the question Mr. Moore. Just like getting water baptized is out of the question. If you want to, feel free. But it's not a requirement for anything. So yes, your contribution to a church or Godly organization is a gift. It's not a requirement. AS I asked Rene, Do we still sacrifice sheep and goats?
I noticed your post on "Heretics message to be saved" thread, and let me just say, these two topics that we are both a part of, comes down to the same thing. Do we follow the law? Tithing is out of the question Mr. Moore. Just like getting water baptized is out of the question. If you want to, feel free. But it's not a requirement for anything. So yes, your contribution to a church or Godly organization is a gift. It's not a requirement. AS I asked Rene, Do we still sacrifice sheep and goats?