Should we pay tithes to be bless and free?

[godrulz]

Sozo: We are just trying to talk you out of your inflated ego, and into understanding what you need to know about the message of Christ. We believe that it is more important that you hear the truth, than it is to offend you.



GR: You have the same spirit as 1way who thinks name-calling cancels out intelligent debate. Paul and Jesus did not call people repulsive names to convey truth. You are in the flesh and do not reflect the character of Christ. Communicating truth will be received if you deal with facts instead of personal putdowns.

You consider me a reprobate unbeliever. Is this how you try to win the lost? Do you go up to old ladies and call them slanderous names while you say that Jesus loves them?

If I am a believer (obvious to everyone but yourself), then you must speak the truth in love. This is scriptural and good psychology. You have nerve to think that it is spiritual to call people perverts and Christ-haters while being aghast that I thought you are a person of conflict, possibly even in your own home.

Let truth offend me, instead of your juvenile putdowns. If you want respect and the right to be heard, then grow up and quit being so arrogant and abrasive.

 

[Sozo]

Originally posted by godrulz



GR: I have edited out my fleshly comment and apologize for offending you, sozo. It was not meant to be a slam on your family. Please forgive me, I was wrong. I made a needless observation that if you treat a stranger who professes Christ with such disdain, it would not surprise me that you are a jerk with your own family also. This is a common pattern with abrasive people.

Some apology

What an idiot.

Why did you not react to the repeated name-calling of sozo? He called me a pervert (this could put me in jail under the criminal code of Canada)

Not a sex-pervert, you bonehead. If you have this kind of trouble with basic terms, than that explains your inability to understand the basics of the gospel.

 

[godrulz]

The standard use of pervert is a sexual pervert. You did not qualify your own meaning of the term.

Try again: Sozo, I was wrong to slander you with my comments about you and your wife. Please forgive me. I was wrong.

 

[godrulz]

Originally posted by c.moore

Should I listen to men tell me to get out my church or listen to what God Say as a sheep??

You are responsible for your own decisions. I would not be listening to people who create confusion and suggest disrespecting pastoral authority. If you leave the church, have the courtesy to talk to the leadership about your concerns. They must give account for their influence in your life. It is more positive to leave with an attempt to work through issues then to just run away with no learning experience.

Listen to the Spirit of God and the Word of God. I would be suspicious of the advice from some of the posters here. They create confusion, make judgments based on inadequate information, misinterpret simple passages to support a preconceived theology, lack credibility and integrity, etc. Pray for wisdom, seek godly counsel, search the Word, trust God.

 

[Sozo]

Originally posted by godrulz

The standard use of pervert is a sexual pervert. You did not qualify your own meaning of the term.

"Thy wisdom and thy knowledge, it hath perverted thee; and thou hast said in thine heart, I am, and none else beside me."

"And the burden of the Lord shall ye mention no more: for every man's word shall be his burden; for ye have perverted the words of the living God, of the Lord of hosts our God."

"The lips of the righteous bring forth what is acceptable, But the mouth of the wicked, what is perverted."

"And Jesus answered and said, "O unbelieving and perverted generation, how long shall I be with you? How long shall I put up with you? Bring him here to Me."

Sozo, I was wrong to slander you with my comments about you and your wife. Please forgive me. I was wrong.

Thank you. I would never speak to my wife or kids the way I do to you. They are willing to learn.

 

[Granite]

Just a thought that may have been covered (I started skimming when I saw this thread had turned into another urinating contest), but how exactly are pastors supposed to eat and churches function short of tithes? Should it be an exact 10% cut and should people feel like it's mandatory? Maybe yes and maybe no...I'm not exactly a supporter of a 10%-sharp amount but a decent church member should feel an obligation to keep the church in operation.

 

[Sozo]

Originally posted by granite1010

I'm not exactly a supporter of a 10%-sharp amount but a decent church member should feel an obligation to keep the church in operation.

We all agree that if you are going to attend a church, that you should support it with giving. However, there are those who have made tithing a command to the church, when the bible does not.

 

[c.moore]

Originally posted by Sozo

It's not funny, c.moore.

Lives of people, from all over the world, have been destroyed as a direct result of your contributions to the people you mentioned.

Think about that! :think:

Also i know millions who were saved, and set free and healed from those who I have contributions, and alot of people debt free from the tithes and prosperity message that really works.

 

[c.moore]

Originally posted by godrulz

You are responsible for your own decisions. I would not be listening to people who create confusion and suggest disrespecting pastoral authority. If you leave the church, have the courtesy to talk to the leadership about your concerns. They must give account for their influence in your life. It is more positive to leave with an attempt to work through issues then to just run away with no learning experience.

Listen to the Spirit of God and the Word of God. I would be suspicious of the advice from some of the posters here. They create confusion, make judgments based on inadequate information, misinterpret simple passages to support a preconceived theology, lack credibility and integrity, etc. Pray for wisdom, seek godly counsel, search the Word, trust God.

very good point godrulz .:thumb:

If i do leave the church I should leave in peace and let them bless me out of the church is that the case, but to leave with stress strife and unforgiveness is a curse i think.

i did ask myself wahat would christ do in my position.

Do you know what the Holy Spirit said to me about what ChrÃ_st would do??

Bless those who curse you and bless your enemies.

Walk also in the friut of the Spirit .

Ga:5:22: But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Ga:5:23: Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Ga:5:24: And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Ga:5:25: If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Ga:5:26: Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

God Bless you

Shalom

 

[godrulz]

Sozo: I agree with your understanding of the verb 'to pervert' as you quoted.

I have a problem with your use of it as a noun or adjective for myself. My daughter was sexually assaulted, so I take offense with the common use of the word applied to myself (though that was not your intent, others might conclude that).

Not EVERYTHING taught by cmoores influences are wrong. I trust he has the discernment to know truth from error. It is possible to have a mix of sound teaching with some wrong ideas. This is serious and dangerous. It does not automatically make one a Christ-hater or unbeliever (except in my case, because you have made things personal).

 

[c.moore]

Originally posted by granite1010

Just a thought that may have been covered (I started skimming when I saw this thread had turned into another urinating contest), but how exactly are pastors supposed to eat and churches function short of tithes? Should it be an exact 10% cut and should people feel like it's mandatory? Maybe yes and maybe no...I'm not exactly a supporter of a 10%-sharp amount but a decent church member should feel an obligation to keep the church in operation.

I think God will support His church and supply all our need according to His Glory either way.

I think God is strong enough to supply His leaders and pastors even if He has to send a dog with a bag in it mouth to the church with a million dollars to pay the pastors and rent.

But Thank God we should be able to give enough to support the church and leaders by our offereings.

God Bless

 

[Sozo]

Originally posted by godrulz

I have a problem with your use of it as a noun or adjective for myself. My daughter was sexually assaulted, so I take offense with the common use of the word (though that was not your intent).

That is terrible. I hope that God has healed her heart, and yours.

 

[drbrumley]

C. Moore,

Your killing me with legalism.

 

[drbrumley]

Granite,

The pastors job is not a glory job. He could be flat broke, and you know what, he still loves God and Jesus and still tends to his sheep.

 

[jeremiah]

To c.moore:

I have read a few pages here and there, but there are too many to read at this point. So if these questions have been asked or suggestions made, please forgive me. This was your Father's money, right. Had he already tithed on it? If so you would be making a double tithe since this money is now rightfully yours and biblically yours, by inheritance. You may be thinking like the IRS thinks, rather than how God thinks.
Since the Lord loves a cheerful giver and there is discord between you and your wife, why not call this $40,000 a "free will offering" to the Father. Let yourself and your wife sit down, pray, and make a list of God's people and organizations that you want to bless for Him. Then let each of you pick one at a time and give equal or appropriate amounts to each. Enjoy the ability to handle and be responsible with what God has given you!

 

[drbrumley]

Originally posted by jeremiah

To c.moore:

I have read a few pages here and there, but there are too many to read at this point. So if these questions have been asked or suggestions made, please forgive me. This was your Father's money, right. Had he already tithed on it? If so you would be making a double tithe since this money is now rightfully yours and biblically yours, by inheritance. You may be thinking like the IRS thinks, rather than how God thinks.
Since the Lord loves a cheerful giver and there is discord between you and your wife, why not call this $40,000 a "free will offering" to the Father. Let yourself and your wife sit down, pray, and make a list of God'd people and organizations that you want to bless for Him. Then let each of you pick one at a time and give equal or appropriate amounts to each. Enjoy the ability to handle and be responsible with what God has given you!

Exactly, :thumb:

 

[Sozo]

Originally posted by jeremiah

To c.moore:

Enjoy the ability to handle and be responsible with what God has given you!

Except... stop expecting God to bless you because you give!

That is witchcraft!

 

[jeremiah]

Originally posted by Sozo

Except... stop expecting God to bless you because you give!

That is witchcraft!

Are you talking to me? I did not say that!
Habakkuk 3:17 and 18 for me, please.

 

[Sozo]

Originally posted by jeremiah

Are you talking to me? I did not say that!
Habakkuk 3:17 and 18 for me, please.

I am talking to c.moore, because that will be his response to your well thought out post.

 

[jeremiah]

OK and thanks!