Should homosexuals be given the death penalty?

Should homosexuals be given the death penalty?

  • Total voters
    344
lovemeorhateme

lovemeorhateme

Well-known member
Christian Liberty said:
The conditions under which that law would be enforced required several things:

1. Considering the references to drunkenness, it is unlikely that we're dealing with a young child here. Most likely a teenager at the least.

2. The law is only supposed to be in place when the parents are unable to bring the children to repentence without involving the civil magistrate. Basically, all options have been used up except that one. Presumably this would include warning the son that he could face such a penalty if he continues in rebellion.

With those caveats, yes I would. But those are caveats that are pretty much never discussed in these discussions.
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I see. So if you had a child you would support killing your own child. What kind of twisted love must someone have for their child to support killing them because they have dishonoured you?

:plain:
 
lovemeorhateme

lovemeorhateme

Well-known member
Christian Liberty said:
Also, since the government is supposed to be the execution of God's Wrath on the evildoer, it is absolutely criminal for them to enforce laws against things the Bible does not criminalize.
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Cannot God execute His own wrath upon evildoers?

Do not take revenge, my dear friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," says the Lord. - Romans 12:19
 
C

Christian Liberty

Well-known member
lovemeorhateme said:
I see. So if you had a child you would support killing your own child. What kind of twisted love must someone have for their child to support killing them because they have dishonoured you?

:plain:
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I think this may be the most misunderstood law in the Bible. I've seen it misrepresented so many times as "If a child is disrespectful they should be stoned", and you're representing it as just "dishonor."

The conditions required in that law would essentially limit its enforcement to cases where no other method of discipline could bring the child to repentence. The law's very existance would make it nearly never enforceable. Especially in the type of society which would allow such a law to exist in the first place (which is very different than our own.) And even still, its not about "what I would want" to do.

lovemeorhateme said:
Cannot God execute His own wrath upon evildoers?

Do not take revenge, my dear friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," says the Lord. - Romans 12:19
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God certainly can. The question is whether God created an institution to do that for him in this life.

Romans 13:3-4


For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, 4for he is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God’s wrath on the wrongdoer.
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Most Christians take this passage as descriptive and simply use it to say that Christians have to obey their government pretty much always. But I don't think this interpretation fits with context, nor the parallel with Romans 12:19 that you mention. Christians aren't supposed to unilaterally take vengeance, this is true. But God did create government as an institution to do that for him in this life.

So, its not about "what God can do." I'd advocate not punishing any crimes if I thought that was what God would want. I advocate punishing the crimes I do because I believe that would conform to God's justice.
 
C

Christian Liberty

Well-known member
lovemeorhateme said:
Remove the word murder and I still think it's a valid point. Would you like to cast the first stone?
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Without condoning the namecalling, I want to weigh in here to point out that that passage is very likely not part of the original manuscript of John, and that it wasn't even a legitimate execution according to the Mosaic Law (or the law they were under.)
 
lovemeorhateme

lovemeorhateme

Well-known member
Christian Liberty said:
Without condoning the namecalling, I want to weigh in here to point out that that passage is very likely not part of the original manuscript of John, and that it wasn't even a legitimate execution according to the Mosaic Law (or the law they were under.)
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I understand that. The point I was trying to make is that if someone is so adamant they want homosexuals killed, would they be prepared to do that killing themselves?
 
lovemeorhateme

lovemeorhateme

Well-known member
Christian Liberty said:
I think this may be the most misunderstood law in the Bible. I've seen it misrepresented so many times as "If a child is disrespectful they should be stoned", and you're representing it as just "dishonor."

The conditions required in that law would essentially limit its enforcement to cases where no other method of discipline could bring the child to repentence. The law's very existance would make it nearly never enforceable. Especially in the type of society which would allow such a law to exist in the first place (which is very different than our own.) And even still, its not about "what I would want" to do.



God certainly can. The question is whether God created an institution to do that for him in this life.

Romans 13:3-4




Most Christians take this passage as descriptive and simply use it to say that Christians have to obey their government pretty much always. But I don't think this interpretation fits with context, nor the parallel with Romans 12:19 that you mention. Christians aren't supposed to unilaterally take vengeance, this is true. But God did create government as an institution to do that for him in this life.

So, its not about "what God can do." I'd advocate not punishing any crimes if I thought that was what God would want. I advocate punishing the crimes I do because I believe that would conform to God's justice.
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How could any loving parent, whether their child has disrespected or dishonoured them willingly allow their child to be killed?
 
C

Christian Liberty

Well-known member
lovemeorhateme said:
I understand that. The point I was trying to make is that if someone is so adamant they want homosexuals killed, would they be prepared to do that killing themselves?
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As part of the governing authority I'd be willing to do so assuming I was confident that the government was properly handling Biblical proceudre on the point and not either becomming a surveilance State or one that was executing people on hearsay.

lovemeorhateme said:
How could any loving parent, whether their child has disrespected or dishonoured them willingly allow their child to be killed?
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How did a loving parent do that in the OT? The problem with this hermaneutic is that it requires a change in God's fundamental character. I don't think that's possible.
 
C

Christian Liberty

Well-known member
Kdall said:
That one had a happy ending. What about the guy who burned his daughter alive? Would you do that?
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God never told him to do that, in fact, it was sinful for him to commit murder in order to follow his oath. I forget what it is, but there's some kind of monetary payment that is supposed to be made if you make a rash oath like that, you aren't supposed to follow through.
 
K

Kdall

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Christian Liberty said:
God never told him to do that, in fact, it was sinful for him to commit murder in order to follow his oath. I forget what it is, but there's some kind of monetary payment that is supposed to be made if you make a rash oath like that, you aren't supposed to follow through.
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True, God didn't tell him to offer his daughter up.

About Abraham and Isaac: it was a test of Abraham's loyalty, right? If God knows all before it even happens, why was this necessary?
 
Lighthouse

Lighthouse

The Dark Knight
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The Beard of Zeus said:
I don't see them calling for adulterers to be executed
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Then you haven't been here long enough.

lovemeorhateme said:
Would these same people call for the execution of their rebellious children I wonder? :think:
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Who are you to argue against God's commands?

Christian Liberty said:
The conditions under which that law would be enforced required several things:

1. Considering the references to drunkenness, it is unlikely that we're dealing with a young child here. Most likely a teenager at the least.

2. The law is only supposed to be in place when the parents are unable to bring the children to repentence without involving the civil magistrate. Basically, all options have been used up except that one. Presumably this would include warning the son that he could face such a penalty if he continues in rebellion.

With those caveats, yes I would. But those are caveats that are pretty much never discussed in these discussions.
Click to expand...
:thumb:

lovemeorhateme said:
Cannot God execute His own wrath upon evildoers?

Do not take revenge, my dear friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," says the Lord. - Romans 12:19
Click to expand...
Maybe you should try reading more...

Just one chapter over:
"For he is God’s minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God’s minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil."
-Romans 13:4

resodko said:
how could abraham offer up isaac?

listen to God
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:thumb:
 
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