Shooting at SC Church During Bible Study - Suspect still at large

[musterion]

Ok. But do you think anyone is disputing that?

You miss my point because it is impossible for you to comprehend.

 

[Granite]

There are Bible-believing Christians who on that very ground opposed slavery from the very beginning.

Congrats. I'm sure you'll be ready to credit the Unitarian deity of Christ denying New Englanders who led the front on abolition for decades, as opposed to the "real" believers in the South.:yawn:

 

[musterion]

Congrats. I'm sure you'll be ready to credit the Unitarian deity of Christ denying New Englanders who led the front on abolition for decades, as opposed to the "real" believers in the South.:yawn:

And here you are blaming a 150 year old flag for yet another leftist's chosen evil.

You said I'm on ignore forever, boy. Do it.

 

[jeffblue101]

okay, here is the full story on how Dylann Roof acquired his gun.
http://reason.com/blog/2015/06/22/obama-wonders-if-dylann-roof-who-passed

Obama was talking about legislation proposed following the December 2012 massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut—in particular, "reforms that 90 percent of the American people supported," meaning expansion of the background check requirement for gun buyers to include sales that do not involve federally licensed dealers. But as CNN reported the day of Obama's remarks, Roof bought the .45-caliber Glock Model 41 handgun he used in the church attack from a Charleston gun store in April, shortly after his 21st birthday (which was on April 3), with money his father had given him as a present. That means he passed a background check.....

Roof was arrested at a mall in Columbia, South Carolina, on March 2 February 28 [see below] and charged with illegal possession of Suboxone, a Schedule III combination of the narcotic buprenorphine and the opioid antagonist naloxone (legally used to treat opioid addicts). According to a story The New York Times ran on Thursday, the drug charge was a felony. But according to subsequent reports from the Associated Press and The Charlotte Observer, the charge was a misdemeanor.

The difference is important under the Gun Control Act of 1968, which bans firearm sales to someone who "is under indictment for, or has been convicted in any court of, a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year" (i.e., a felony)....

If Roof was a nonmedical user of Suboxone, that fact would have legally disqualified him from buying a gun, since the Gun Control Act excludes anyone who is "an unlawful user" of a controlled substance. But a gun dealer would have had no way of knowing about Roof's tastes in psychoactive chemicals, because NICS does not track people's drug habits—a good thing, since otherwise anyone who has recently consumed cannabis (even in states where it's legal) or used someone else's prescription medication would be stripped of the right to own guns in practice as well as theory. Nor did the "common-sense gun safety reforms" Obama wishes Congress had passed include such a national database of drug users,...

Addendum: Yesterday The State, Columbia's daily paper, reported that, "according to an arrest warrant reviewed by The State," the drug charge against Roof was indeed a misdemeanor,

 

[Sancocho]

As someone from Charleston I can tell you the argument that the Civil War was fought to defend self determinism is an atheist argument because no real Christian could defend the right to commit evil nor even be ambiguous regarding the matter because it would be scandalous and a sin of omission.

I also do recognize many American Evangelicals fought this scourge and I am sure they have received their heavenly reward.

 

[Granite]

And here you are blaming a 150 year old flag for yet another leftist's chosen evil.

Two things: One, no one--but nobody--has ever blamed the presence of the rebel flag in South Carolina for what this murderer did. No one. And for another, this cretin's politics weren't left of center, which even a knuckle-dragging schmuck like you should know full well.

You said I'm on ignore forever

Nooooooo, never did say that. You keep imagining it. At one point I said I was going to put ya on the ignore list. I did. Funny thing: I'm free to change my mind about whatever doofus of the moment I want to ignore or not. At this point your asinine little shtick amuses me. When it doesn't I'll put you in time out again.:chuckle:

 

[tetelestai]

Not quite sure why someone who calls themselves a Republican and/or Conservative would defend the Confederate Flag.

The Confederate Flag has always been a Democrat flag. The flag that stands today next to the State Building in South Carolina was put there by a Democrat.

The current S.C. Republican governor wants the flag taken down. The previous Republican governor of S.C. tried to remove the flag. Republican Jeb Bush removed the Confederate Flag from Florida over 10 years ago.

In 1987 while Bill Clinton was governor of Arkansas he signed into law Act 116, detailing that “the blue star above the word ‘ARKANSAS’ is to commemorate the Confederate States of America.”

Yet, I see nothing but Republicans here on TOL defending a flag that belongs to Democrats, and Democrats calling for it to be removed.

 

[tetelestai]

Democrat Governor Jimmy Carter and the Confederate Flag:

 

[tetelestai]

Yet another Democrat and the Confederate Flag.

This time it's George Wallace

 

[tetelestai]

As for my Liberal friends who are in agreement with me that the Confederate Flag should be removed; make up your minds:

 

[rexlunae]

As someone from Charleston I can tell you the argument that the Civil War was fought to defend self determinism is an atheist argument

That's nonsense. You made it up.

... because no real Christian could defend the right to commit evil nor even be ambiguous regarding the matter because it would be scandalous and a sin of omission.

Seems like a variant on the No True Scotsman fallacy.

I also do recognize many American Evangelicals fought this scourge and I am sure they have received their heavenly reward.

Nearly all the people on all sides were Christians. The North, the South, the slaves, neutral people. It's great that you now think that Christianity opposes slavery, it really is, but at the time, the Confederacy stood clearly on what they considered to be Christian doctrine. The Southern Baptists even split into a separate denomination to maintain that stance, and they're one of the most evangelical groups around.

Just a little bit of trivia, but did you know that, unlike the American flag, the basic form of the Confederate flag was actually a Christian cross?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saltire

 

[tetelestai]

Bill and Hilary Clinton spent 8 years in the Governor's mansion in Little Rock, Arkansas with the following law in place regarding the Confederate Flag. (the law is still in effect today):

Arkansas Code Annotated, Section 1-5-107, provides as follows:

(a) The Saturday immediately preceding Easter Sunday of each year is designated as ‘Confederate Flag Day’ in this state.

(b) No person, firm, or corporation shall display an Confederate flag or replica thereof in connection with any advertisement of any commercial enterprise, or in any manner for any purpose except to honor the Confederate States of America. [Emphasis added.]

(c) Any person, firm, or corporation violating the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and upon conviction shall be fined not less than one hundred dollars ($100) nor more than one thousand dollars ($1,000).



Bill Clinton, as governor, didn't even attempt to do anything about this day to celebrate the Confederate Flag. In fact, Bill and Hilary Clinton, each year, for 8 years, participated in the events at the Capital Building honoring the Confederate Flag.

 

[Sancocho]

That's nonsense. You made it up.

Ok, no problem. It "smacks" of an atheist argument because it is an immoral argument.

That's nonsense. You made it up.

Seems like a variant on the No True Scotsman fallacy.

Ok no problem, no Christian faithful to the Gospel.

Nearly all the people on all sides were Christians. The North, the South, the slaves, neutral people. It's great that you now think that Christianity opposes slavery, it really is, but at the time, the Confederacy stood clearly on what they considered to be Christian doctrine. The Southern Baptists even split into a separate denomination to maintain that stance, and they're one of the most evangelical groups around.

Ok, no problem - confused Christians or Christian in name only. Since we are sinners we can't expect to get everything right, although sincerely this was a pretty big miss in my book. As far as distinguishing between the latter and the former I'll leave that to God.

Thanks for pointing out the lack of clarity in my post. As Celia Cruz once said "my English isn't very good looking".

 

[TomO]

As for my Liberal friends who are in agreement with me that the Confederate Flag should be removed; make up your minds:

Oh...That's a good meme. lain:

 

[rainee]

Indeed. The Nazis took a good luck charm and perverted it. Southerners took St. Andrew's cross and perverted that too. If symbols meant nothing and had no power, people wouldn't defend using them...or oppose their use.

Ok ok ok
You are provoking me to a point I am going to have trouble coming back from... Sigh

Now they are going to call for the flag to come down in South Carolina
If they haven't done so already...It will be a victory for you and Rex I should hope since you guys have so little to do with real problem solving or even discerning reality.

So be happy and think of all the make believe good that liberals have gotten done by making that flag mean something it didn't while never knowing apparently what it did represent.

 

[Granite]

Ok ok ok
You are provoking me to a point I am going to have trouble coming back from... Sigh

Now they are going to call for the flag to come down in South Carolina
If they haven't done so already...It will be a victory for you and Rex I should hope since you guys have so little to do with real problem solving or even discerning reality.

So be happy and think of all the make believe good that liberals have gotten done by making that flag mean something it didn't while never knowing apparently what it did represent.

"Victory" might be a little much. "About time" sounds right.

It represents hate and white supremacy. Always has, always will.

 

[rainee]

The difference is, the Confederate flag has never really stood for anything else. It's true that the American flag has a complicated history with race and with slavery, but a significant part of that history has involved fighting against it. And the American flag was never primarily a symbol of slavery in the first place, because the values of the American Revolution were not the same as those of the Confederacy.

Rex, good luck with your small brain capacity and please remember lies are like love. The more you give a way the more you personally have for yourself.

 

[rexlunae]

Ok, no problem. It "smacks" of an atheist argument because it is an immoral argument.

Right. Nevermind who actually made the argument, blame it on the atheists, because that just feels right to you.

Ok, no problem - confused Christians or Christian in name only. Since we are sinners we can't expect to get everything right, although sincerely this was a pretty big miss in my book. As far as distinguishing between the latter and the former I'll leave that to God.

You just can't lose, can you? You've blatantly tossed the facts out the window.

Thanks for pointing out the lack of clarity in my post. As Celia Cruz once said "my English isn't very good looking".

It's not your English that's at issue, but your history and your logic and your use of scapegoats. Believe it or not, the slavery advocates were Christians, even moreso than their counterparts in the North, and the denominations which were on the side of slavery are still large and important in the US. You simply cannot slide the blame off to someone else just because you don't think the people who did this were right.

 

[rexlunae]

Rex, good luck with your small brain capacity and please remember lies are like love. The more you give a way the more you personally have for yourself.

If all else fails, attack the messenger, I guess.

 

[drbrumley]

"Victory" might be a little much. "About time" sounds right.

It represents hate and white supremacy. Always has, always will.

Hampton Roads ring a bell with you. Probably not.