Question for Bob Hill: Rewards
- Thread starter Sozo
- Start date
lightninboy
Member
Sozo said:
You said "Why don't you read them, and tell us what they say?"
lightninboy
Member
But I agree with GES and Campus Crusade and the Bible.
Sozo
New member
kmoney said:
Sorry this is so long, but context is essential!
2 Corinthans 4:7-11
"But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the surpassing greatness of the power may be of God and not from ourselves; we are afflicted in every way, but not crushed; perplexed, but not despairing; persecuted, but not forsaken; struck down, but not destroyed; always carrying about in the body the dying of Jesus, that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our body. For we who live are constantly being delivered over to death for Jesus' sake, that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our mortal flesh."
Paul is speaking to the Corinthians about the desire to be done with these bodies and to be present with the Lord, but that they not lose heart, because what they do in their bodies is not done in vain. We have an eternal reward in that which we have suffered in our bodies. Christ is at work in us and through us. Those whose deeds are done apart from Christ are dead works, and will be judged as such. Because He is at work in us and through us, then the works that He does, have eternal significance.
Those who do not have Christ, are working towards nothing. Knowing that they will receive eternal condemnation, we are compelled to persuade them to be reconciled to God!
2 Corinthians 5
"For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven: If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked. For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life. Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit. Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: (For we walk by faith, not by sight) We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences. For we commend not ourselves again unto you, but give you occasion to glory on our behalf, that ye may have somewhat to answer them which glory in appearance, and not in heart. For whether we be beside ourselves, it is to God: or whether we be sober, it is for your cause. For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again. Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him."
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lightninboy
Member
If I’m unwilling to be sure the job is done
Then I compel the King to find another one
Who will be diligent to carry out the plan
Let us determine to accept every command
Let no man take it
Let no man take it
Let no man take it
Let no man take it
Let no man take your crown
Let no man take your crown
Till at His feet you lay it down
May you be ever faithful found
Let no man take your crown
Then I compel the King to find another one
Who will be diligent to carry out the plan
Let us determine to accept every command
Let no man take it
Let no man take it
Let no man take it
Let no man take it
Let no man take your crown
Let no man take your crown
Till at His feet you lay it down
May you be ever faithful found
Let no man take your crown
Sozo said:
Damian, is that you? Are you and sozo friends?
Rewards are certainly a divisive issue :loser:
This is the first time in 30 years I have heard of believers badmouthing issues about stewardship and rewards.
Hebrews 11:6 God is a rewarder of those who seek Him.
The exact nature of rewards is not given, but the priniciple of reward vs rebuke is found in the Bible.
Is your favorite movie "Grumpy Old Men"?
Benjamin said:
I suggest you show more respect to the man of God. Pastor HIll has a good heart and mind. I disagree with some of his views without slandering him. We are all trying to be faithful to the Word as we understand it. Let us encourage and edify if we are seeking God. Save the attacks for those who mock and attack God and His Word.
Sozo said:
Motive is the key. Rewards can be pursued selfishly, leading to loss of reward. That which is done for Christ and His glory in His power will be commended, not rebuked. Hebrews says that God will remember their labors and the love shown to the saints. Rewards are not inherently wrong.
Must you always put a negative spin on everything and see self-righteousness under every bush, without warrant?
(no rewards, no mental illness, no Christian sin, etc. your views have a grain of truth, but are unbalanced....heresy is half truth, not complete error).
Sozo said:
He is giving relevant Scripture about rewards. Perhaps if you found all the passages with rewards/stewardship concepts, you would find a more biblical position than your extreme, reactionary view you now hold. Answer his explicit verses about rewards rather than trying to get the posts erased (we disagree with your I Cor. 3 conclusions, for starters).
Studd is not perfect, but he is not an idiot. He probably did more for the kingdom (missionary) than we are.
Sozo said:
Actually, I know very little about Studd. He was a famous missionary who was used to bring souls into the kingdom. Is he as evil as John Wesley in your mind? Finney also was used by God in great spiritual awakenings. I think you have small man syndrome.
Did Studd deny the essentials of historical, biblical Christianity, or did he just fail to agree with Boy George...er....Bob George...Freudian slip
?What specifically did Studd teach (have you read all of his writings) that is a denial of Christ?! I am all ears.
http://www.earnestlycontending.com/KT/bios/ctstudd.html
It sounds like his gospel was simple faith in the person and work of Christ.
Just because you do not like one sentence in his quotes does not justify your foolish conclusions.
Are you for real?
Bob Hill
TOL Subscriber
I've forgotten about this thread, but now I'm back.
I believe in a strong emphasis on getting what I believe from the Bible.
Others say they do too. But, all of the different beliefs tell me that some people are very perplexed.
I think one of the greatest problems is the emphasis that many teach on baptism.
It’s also getting to be a majority position in the world of Christianity that health and prosperity teachings are what God wants. They say God wants us healthy & wealthy. Yet, even with all those big churches making it their theology, it doesn’t happen. Why?
Many don’t understand why God doesn’t answer their prayers like He promised He would.
Some are not really sure what they have to do to be saved. And others are not completely sure that you cannot lose your salvation.
Some are puzzled about tongues, the other sign gifts, and prophecy.
Are these gifts for today? If I didn’t see things dispensationally, I would have to believe in those gifts being in order for us today, yet I know you don’t.
Others are concerned about this – will we go through the tribulation or be taken out of here before it begins?
I feel a great burden for many believers who have bad theology. I admire many on this thread who seem to want to know the word of God. But, there is so much confusion about what the Bible really teaches, and I believe it’s because many do not look at God’s word according to the dispensations He shows us in His word.
Gross error is not only being presented in many churches in our land as truth, but truth almost seems to be despised by some churches.
I believe we can know the truth if we study God’s word to see what it really says. That’s why I believe all of these problems I’ve mentioned can be solved when we look at the great distinctions God makes in His Word.
God’s program for us today, in the Dispensation of Grace, is different from all His previous programs and future programs.
We see how unique God’s program for us is when we read about Paul’s commission in Eph 3:1-9: “For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for you Gentiles – 2 if indeed you have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which was given to me for you, 3 how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery (as I have briefly written already, 4 by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ), 5 which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets: 6 that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel, 7 of which I became a minister according to the gracious gift of God given to me by the effective working of His power. 8 To me, who am less than the least of all the saints, this grace was given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the untraceable riches of Christ, 9 and make all see what is the dispensation (oikonomia) of the mystery, which has been hidden from the ages in God who created all things through Jesus Christ.”
God inspired Paul to repeat this explanation in Col 1:25-27: [The church]of which I became a minister according to the dispensation of God which was given to me for you, to fulfill [to complete, make full, fill] the word of God, 26 the mystery which has been hidden from the ages and from the generations, but now has been revealed to His saints. 27 To whom God willed to make known what are the glorious riches of this mystery among the Gentiles: which is Christ among you, the hope of glory.
This means that prophecies made before Paul was saved, from Genesis to Acts nine, have nothing to do with this dispensation. Why? Because this dispensation is called the Dispensation of the Mystery in Eph 3:8,9 To me, who am less than the least of all the saints, this grace was given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ, 9 and to make all see what is the dispensation of the mystery, which has been hidden from the ages in God who created all things through Jesus Christ.
Rom 16:25,26 Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery kept secret in age times 26 but now made manifest, and by the prophetic Scriptures made known to all nations, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, for obedience to the faith.
It also means that nothing was known about the church which is the body of Christ before it was revealed to the Apostle Paul.
Why? Because it is a mystery – a secret.
Things changed drastically when the dispensation of grace/mystery started.
Here are the big differences in this Dispensation of Grace.
Salvation. We are justified by faith. Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.
The Circumcision Gospel was different from our present Dispensation of Grace.
They were justified by faith plus works.
Jam 2:11,12,14,20,21,24,25 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty.
14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar?
24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?
Security.
We are sealed and secure.
Eph 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise.
Eph 4:30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed unto the day of redemption.
They have to endure.
Mat 24:9-14 Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. 10 And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. 11 Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. 12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.
John 15:1-12 I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me. 5 I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone [of the eleven apostles] does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. 10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.
Baptism.
We don’t have to be water baptized to be saved.
Acts 16:30,31 And he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.”
1 Co 1:17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of no effect.
They had to be baptized.
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.”
1 Pe 3:19-21 [Christ] went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water. 21 There is also an antitype which now saves us – baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
The purpose of the mystery.
Is love.
1 Ti 1:3-5 As I urged you when I went into Macedonia - remain in Ephesus that you may charge some that they teach no other doctrine, 4 nor give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which cause disputes rather than godly edification which is in faith. 5 Now the purpose of the commandment charge is love from a pure heart, from a good conscience, and from sincere faith.
2 Ti 1:12-14 I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep my deposit until that Day. 13 Hold fast the pattern of sound words which you have heard from me, in faith and love which are in Christ Jesus.14 Keep that good thing which was committed to you the good deposit, keep by the Holy Spirit who dwells in us.
The big difference is life changing and shows us in this dispensation, salvation is all of grace and our belief.
In Christ,
Bob Hill
I believe in a strong emphasis on getting what I believe from the Bible.
Others say they do too. But, all of the different beliefs tell me that some people are very perplexed.
I think one of the greatest problems is the emphasis that many teach on baptism.
It’s also getting to be a majority position in the world of Christianity that health and prosperity teachings are what God wants. They say God wants us healthy & wealthy. Yet, even with all those big churches making it their theology, it doesn’t happen. Why?
Many don’t understand why God doesn’t answer their prayers like He promised He would.
Some are not really sure what they have to do to be saved. And others are not completely sure that you cannot lose your salvation.
Some are puzzled about tongues, the other sign gifts, and prophecy.
Are these gifts for today? If I didn’t see things dispensationally, I would have to believe in those gifts being in order for us today, yet I know you don’t.
Others are concerned about this – will we go through the tribulation or be taken out of here before it begins?
I feel a great burden for many believers who have bad theology. I admire many on this thread who seem to want to know the word of God. But, there is so much confusion about what the Bible really teaches, and I believe it’s because many do not look at God’s word according to the dispensations He shows us in His word.
Gross error is not only being presented in many churches in our land as truth, but truth almost seems to be despised by some churches.
I believe we can know the truth if we study God’s word to see what it really says. That’s why I believe all of these problems I’ve mentioned can be solved when we look at the great distinctions God makes in His Word.
God’s program for us today, in the Dispensation of Grace, is different from all His previous programs and future programs.
We see how unique God’s program for us is when we read about Paul’s commission in Eph 3:1-9: “For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for you Gentiles – 2 if indeed you have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which was given to me for you, 3 how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery (as I have briefly written already, 4 by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ), 5 which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets: 6 that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel, 7 of which I became a minister according to the gracious gift of God given to me by the effective working of His power. 8 To me, who am less than the least of all the saints, this grace was given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the untraceable riches of Christ, 9 and make all see what is the dispensation (oikonomia) of the mystery, which has been hidden from the ages in God who created all things through Jesus Christ.”
God inspired Paul to repeat this explanation in Col 1:25-27: [The church]of which I became a minister according to the dispensation of God which was given to me for you, to fulfill [to complete, make full, fill] the word of God, 26 the mystery which has been hidden from the ages and from the generations, but now has been revealed to His saints. 27 To whom God willed to make known what are the glorious riches of this mystery among the Gentiles: which is Christ among you, the hope of glory.
This means that prophecies made before Paul was saved, from Genesis to Acts nine, have nothing to do with this dispensation. Why? Because this dispensation is called the Dispensation of the Mystery in Eph 3:8,9 To me, who am less than the least of all the saints, this grace was given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ, 9 and to make all see what is the dispensation of the mystery, which has been hidden from the ages in God who created all things through Jesus Christ.
Rom 16:25,26 Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery kept secret in age times 26 but now made manifest, and by the prophetic Scriptures made known to all nations, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, for obedience to the faith.
It also means that nothing was known about the church which is the body of Christ before it was revealed to the Apostle Paul.
Why? Because it is a mystery – a secret.
Things changed drastically when the dispensation of grace/mystery started.
Here are the big differences in this Dispensation of Grace.
Salvation. We are justified by faith. Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.
The Circumcision Gospel was different from our present Dispensation of Grace.
They were justified by faith plus works.
Jam 2:11,12,14,20,21,24,25 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty.
14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar?
24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?
Security.
We are sealed and secure.
Eph 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise.
Eph 4:30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed unto the day of redemption.
They have to endure.
Mat 24:9-14 Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. 10 And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. 11 Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. 12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.
John 15:1-12 I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me. 5 I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone [of the eleven apostles] does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. 10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.
Baptism.
We don’t have to be water baptized to be saved.
Acts 16:30,31 And he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.”
1 Co 1:17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of no effect.
They had to be baptized.
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.”
1 Pe 3:19-21 [Christ] went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water. 21 There is also an antitype which now saves us – baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
The purpose of the mystery.
Is love.
1 Ti 1:3-5 As I urged you when I went into Macedonia - remain in Ephesus that you may charge some that they teach no other doctrine, 4 nor give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which cause disputes rather than godly edification which is in faith. 5 Now the purpose of the commandment charge is love from a pure heart, from a good conscience, and from sincere faith.
2 Ti 1:12-14 I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep my deposit until that Day. 13 Hold fast the pattern of sound words which you have heard from me, in faith and love which are in Christ Jesus.14 Keep that good thing which was committed to you the good deposit, keep by the Holy Spirit who dwells in us.
The big difference is life changing and shows us in this dispensation, salvation is all of grace and our belief.
In Christ,
Bob Hill
Sozo said:
What I do know puts the burden of proof on you for rejecting so many godly believers who love the Lord and were used mightily by him. You act like a cult or sect leader in your thinking. Be afraid, be very afraid. You will give an account someday for denying the grace of Christ in some many believer's lives.
