Question for Bob Hill: Rewards

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Sozo said:
Jerry... You are a pompus jackass.

Jerry, we presently recieve the reward of Christ's life, and will in the future see the redemption of our bodies, which is the fullness of the reward realized.
With statements like that no wonder no one takes you seriously,Sozo.

We must abandon our common sense and delude our minds if we to believe that the "rewards" spoken in the following verses are in regard to the "redemption of our bodies":

"Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire" (1Cor.3:12-15).

Some Christians will receive a reward or rewards in the future and some will not.

But you say that the reward is the redemtion of our bodies.Are we supposed to believe that some Christians will receive new,glorified bodies as their reward and others will not?
You really need to think these things through before you say such ridiculous things,Sozo.

When Paul preached to the Jews he "reasoned with them out of the Scriptures" (Acts17:2).

In order to believe the things which you say we must throw our reason to the wind.

You fit what Paul said about the unbelieving Jews when he said that "they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge" (Ro.10:2).

In His grace,--Jerry
 

godrulz

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
After doing a word study on NT uses of 'rewards', I am satisfied that Jerry is on the right track. He is also not a godless heretic just because he agrees with myself and the majority of Christians and scholars on this subject.

Diagnosis: Sozo tends to have a preconceived idea and has a filter when he interprets passages. He takes one use of a word, while ignoring other legitimate uses of the word in different contexts (a simple language tool or lexicon, which he probably has, would undermine his arguments).

e.g. as Knight points out, his narrow view of 'sin' leads to exegetical problems (Christians cannot sin).

His narrow definition of 'mental illness' (see his thread with that title) leaves him contrary to common usage and common sense on the subject (no such thing as mental illness...he should ride along on my ambulance the last week during the full moon...at least in my city, there are many crazy nuts out there).

His one sided view of sanctification (basically justification) negates an equally valid complementary view forcing him to wrongly call the ongoing work of the Spirit as self-righteousness.

His concept of the gospel as life makes him reject someone as demon possessed if they also talk about it as a reconciled love relationship.

Limited time offer: I am offering free copies of the book "Dealing with people you can't stand" by Dr. Brinkman/Kirschner...how to stand up to abusive, abrupt people, coping with creeps, difficult people, jerks, hostile-aggressives.

Be prepared for the wrath of Khan... :noid: :angel:
 

lightninboy

Member
That's all the lumber--that's all the lumber
that's all the lumber you sent
Looks like the builder--man he's got your number
That's all the lumber you sent
 

lightninboy

Member
What are the wood, hay, and stubble in 1 Cor. 3:12-15?

They could be earthly pursuits like collecting baseball cards and restoring antiques.

They could be "living the good life" in a secular manner.

They could be legitimate ministerial activities done for glorification of self rather than of God.

God wants works done out of love for Him.

But that doesn't mean you can't deposit into your heavenly bank account.
 

lightninboy

Member
Matthew 6:1 Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.
2 Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
3 But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:
4 That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.

Matthew 6:5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

Matthew 6:16 Moreover when ye fast, be not, as the hypocrites, of a sad countenance: for they disfigure their faces, that they may appear unto men to fast. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
17 But thou, when thou fastest, anoint thine head, and wash thy face;
18 That thou appear not unto men to fast, but unto thy Father which is in secret: and thy Father, which seeth in secret, shall reward thee openly.

Luke 6:22 Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake.
23 Rejoice ye in that day, and leap for joy: for, behold, your reward is great in heaven: for in the like manner did their fathers unto the prophets.
Luke 6:26 Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.

John 5:41 I receive not honour from men.
42 But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you.
43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?

John 12:42 Nevertheless among the chief rulers also many believed on him; but because of the Pharisees they did not confess him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue:
43 For they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.

Romans 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

1 Corinthians 4:1 Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the mysteries of God.
2 Moreover it is required in stewards, that a man be found faithful.
3 But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.
4 For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.
5 Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.

1 Corinthians 7:21 Art thou called being a servant? care not for it: but if thou mayest be made free, use it rather.
22 For he that is called in the Lord, being a servant, is the Lord's freeman: likewise also he that is called, being free, is Christ's servant.
23 Ye are bought with a price; be not ye the servants of men [NKJV: do not become slaves of men].

1 Corinthians 7:29 But this I say, brethren, the time is short: it remaineth, that both they that have wives be as though they had none;
30 And they that weep, as though they wept not; and they that rejoice, as though they rejoiced not; and they that buy, as though they possessed not;
31 And they that use this world, as not abusing it: for the fashion of this world passeth away.
32 But I would have you without carefulness. He that is unmarried careth for the things that belong to the Lord, how he may please the Lord:
33 But he that is married careth for the things that are of the world, how he may please his wife.
34 There is difference also between a wife and a virgin. The unmarried woman careth for the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit: but she that is married careth for the things of the world, how she may please her husband.
35 And this I speak for your own profit; not that I may cast a snare upon you, but for that which is comely, and that ye may attend upon the Lord without distraction.

Galatians 1:10 For do I now persuade [New Scofield: seek the favor of] men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ [NKJV: would not be a servant of Christ].

Ephesians 6:5 Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ;
6 Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart;
7 With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men:
8 Knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether he be bond or free.

Colossians 3:22 Servants, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God;
23 And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men;
24 Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ.

1 Thessalonians 2:3 For our exhortation was not of deceit, nor of uncleanness, nor in guile:
4 But as we were allowed of God to be put in trust with the gospel, even so we speak; not as pleasing men, but God, which trieth our hearts.
5 For neither at any time used we flattering words, as ye know, nor a cloke of covetousness; God is witness:
6 Nor of men sought we glory, neither of you, nor yet of others, when we might have been burdensome, as the apostles of Christ.
 

godrulz

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
lightninboy said:
What are the wood, hay, and stubble in 1 Cor. 3:12-15?

They could be earthly pursuits like collecting baseball cards and restoring antiques.

They could be "living the good life" in a secular manner.

They could be legitimate ministerial activities done for glorification of self rather than of God.

God wants works done out of love for Him.

But that doesn't mean you can't deposit into your heavenly bank account.

Rewards can relate to responsibilities, for example. Some are saved by the skin of their teeth and snatched from the fire. Others have been faithful stewards. All believers have Jesus and heaven, the ultimate reward. A faithful servant of God in this life may have a measure of reward or responsibility. The principles of stewardship parables suggest this.
 

Sozo

New member
Jerry Shugart said:
We must abandon our common sense and delude our minds if we to believe that the "rewards" spoken in the following verses are in regard to the "redemption of our bodies":

"Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire" (1Cor.3:12-15).


The passage you quoted is dealing with the reward of the soul that received the truth of the gospel built UPON THE FOUNDATION!!!

You are as dense, and foolish as they come.

This letter to the Corinthians is written to a group of people who are steeped in philosophy and worldly wisdom. When the gospel is being presented to them (the foundation), many are building on THE foundation with wisdom that is not from God. A wisdom that will not remain.

(Are you paying attention? Seriously, I doubt it. But, frankly, you have never show an interest in hearing anything but your own false gospel, so I am saying this for the benefit of perhaps the one person out there who is not so filled with self-righteousness that they actually might have ears to hear.)

What Paul is saying is very, very, simple.

1. Paul says that Jesus is the only foundation.

2. Others are building on the foundation.

3. Some are building on the foundation with the truth.

4. Some are building on the foundation with lies.

5. The ones who build on the foundation with the truth will be rewarded.

6. The ones who build on the foundation with lies will receive no reward. BECAUSE, JERRY, IT WILL NOT BEAR FRUIT IN THOSE WHO HEAR IT!!!

The reward is both present tense and future tense. Do you know why, Jerry? Because if the reward is true, then whatever was being built upon the foundation remains. That means that it was already there, Jerry. That is PRESENT TENSE. Get it?

It was just as much there then, as it is when it REMAINS, after being revealed by fire.

The redemption of the body, is also a reward for those who have received Christ. Are you saying that it is not? I just mentioned it, in an attempt to prove a point about rewards, not to tell you that it applies to those verses. I'm trying to get you to think, for once. It makes no sense to discuss a topic, without bringing into light the entirety of the message of Christ. I cannot sit here and quote the entire bible to you to prove every single point. I have to think that there might be some chance that you actually have some familiarity with the bible, but I see now that is probably just a wrong assumption on my part.


The one who builds upon the foundation with dead works (worldly wisdom, righteousness through the law, etc) will suffer loss, because those works are worthless to those who heard it.

In fact, what YOU and all these other morons who teach some kind of reward (other than Christ) are doing is building on the foundation with wood, hay, and stubble. You are giving people a false worldly idea that if they do enough works they will be more blessed than those who walk by faith in Christ and His work in them. Your false gospel will no suffer loss in those who hear it. If you are saved (which I seriously doubt), then you will be saved, but all your false teaching will be burned up, and you will suffer loss in the lives of those who led astray.

In fact, Jerry (and godless), much of what you do is destructive to the body of Christ, and God says that those who bring destruction to the body, will be destroyed by God.

Your false gospel, is a destructive force.

Tell me, Jerry, what "reward(s)", do you think you are going to get, and what qualifies you for those "rewards?
 

lightninboy

Member
If I was a sinner, I'd tell you what I would do
I'd quit my sinning and I'd work on the building too


I'm workin' on a building, I'm workin' on a building
I'm workin' on a building, For my Lord, For my Lord
It's a holy ghost building, It's a holy ghost building
It's a holy ghost building, For my Lord, For my Lord
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Sozo,

Earlier I pointed out that the "rewards" spoken of at 1 Cor.3:12-15 were rewards that would not be revealed in the future:

The Greek word translated "shall declare" is in the "future" tense. If the rewards are being given now for a Christian's "laying the foundation (Jesus)" then the tense would not be "future".

And you agreed with that. Then you said:
Jerry, we presently recieve the reward of Christ's life, and will in the future see the redemption of our bodies, which is the fullness of the reward realized.
I then pointed out that you answer is nonsense. If we are to believe your idea about future rewards then we must believe that only some Christians will receive new,glorified bodies!

Nothing could be more foolish. But instead of facing up to the truth that you made a mstake you deny that you answer was not in regard to the future rewards spoken of at 1 Cor.3:12-15 at all:
The redemption of the body, is also a reward for those who have received Christ. Are you saying that it is not? I just mentioned it, in an attempt to prove a point about rewards, not to tell you that it applies to those verses.
What a joke!!

Do you really believe that anyone will believe that?

You say that your words about future rewards were not in response to the very point which I was making about those verses. Again,we can see why no one takes you seriously on this forum.

I say that the Christian will receive rewards in the future for the work which they do in regard to building upon the foundation which is Jesus Christ.

But you deny it. But so far you have not been able to provide an answer as to what Paul is referring to at 1 Cor.3:12-15 when he speaks of rewards that will be revealed in the future.

What are they?
 

lightninboy

Member
1 COR 3:11-15
ETERNAL SECURITY & ETERNAL REWARDS

THE WORKS OF CHURCH BUILDERS-LEADERS ARE IN VIEW BUT THIS IS APPLIED TO ANY AND ALL BELIEVERS
The first ten verses of this chapter have the works of church leaders in view and these will be judged as to its value at the Judgment Seat of Christ.
Erwin W. Lutzer, "Your Eternal Reward,Triumph and Tears at the Judgment Seat of Christ", Moody Press, Chicago, 1998.
Perhaps the most vivid picture of the judgment seat of Christ is Paul's metaphor given to the church at Corinth.
Their carnality revealed itself in the immaturity of putting their favorite man on a pedestal; some followed one leader, others another.
Paul's point is that some leaders are trying to build the church with poor materials; they gather a congregation quickly, but there is nothing transforming about their ministry. They might work hard, but because their energy is misdirected, they will have nothing that lasts in glory.
Others are trying to build with precious stones; they have a ministry based on the Word of God, prayer and the Spirit.
The person who is 'saved so as by fire' is indeed a Christian, but his leadership has been flawed. He has relied too heavily upon himself, his techniques, and his training. He did not approach the work with a spirit of dependence and faith; he did not do the work with Spirit-directed faithfulness.
Though Paul's point is intended for the leaders of the church, it can be applied to all of us. We are all building our lives, day by day; each of us will be tested, and each life will reveal a mixture of precious stones and stubble.
The more carnality and selfishness, the more 'wood, hay, straw' and the less 'gold, silver, precious stones.'
JESUS CHRIST IS THE SOLE FOUNDATION OF ONES ETERNAL LIFE WHICH IS BUILT BY GOD ALONE AT THE MOMENT OF FAITH ALONE IN CHRIST ALONE
ONCE ONE IS SAVED, THEN A BELIEVER CAN BUILD UPON THE FOUNDATION OF HIS SALVATION WITH PRECIOUS OR WORTHLESS MATERIALS
Now once one is saved one then begins to build upon this foundation. One may build with eternally valuable gold, silver and precious stones, i.e., divine good works; or with valueless and destructible wood, hay and straw, i.e., human centered works, (or perhaps no works at all - just a sinful lifestyle). The building that a believer's lifestyle is forming upon the foundation of salvation in Christ is representative of the reward that a believer receives when he gets to heaven.
'THE DAY' IS A TERM WHICH SIGNIFIES THE DAY OF THE LORD BEGINNING WITH OUR LORD'S PREPARATIONS TO RETURN IN JUDGMENT OF THE WORLD INCLUDING THE JUDGMENT OF THE WORKS OF BELIEVERS
"the Day" = a technical term which signifies the day when our Lord will begin preparations to and then return in judgment and rule the earth from Jerusalem, (ref. Isaiah - details of the "Day" described throughout the entire book. 2 Thes 2:1-2 and I Thes 4:13-18 point to the rapture which is the beginning of the "Day" of the Lord when He brings believers dead and alive up to him in heaven in preparation to return to the earth for His millennial rule.
'FIRE WILL TEST THE QUALITY OF EACH MAN'S WORK' =REFERS TO JUDGMENT NOT ETERNAL DAMNATION
'ANY MAN'S WORK' = REFERS TO THE WORK OF THOSE WHO HAVE BUILT ON THE FOUNDATION OF CHRIST, I.E., ANY BELIEVER'S WORK
'IT' = REFERS TO THE FOUNDATION OF ETERNAL LIFE - JESUS CHRIST AND HIM ALONE
REWARDS ARE IN VIEW FOR DOING WORKS WHICH SURVIVE THE TEST, I.E., FAITHFUL ONES
If any man's work is burned up, [wood, hay, straw] he shall suffer loss; but he himself shall be saved [unto eternal life], yet so as [one who barely escapes with his life] through fire [saving nothing of his belongings except himself - he goes to heaven the poorest of paupers for the rest of eternity.
If a believer does not abide in Christ, producing works which are not divine good, they will be consumed in the fire, suffering the loss of eternal rewards.
Notice that if the believer's works were burned up - i.e., if the works did not survive the test of fire, then that believer will actually suffer loss - suffer in heaven for the loss of what he could have received but did not because he wasted his time on earth. But that believer, the Scripture says, will still remain saved unto eternal life, barely entering onto heaven's shores as one escaping to safety from a burning house - without bringing anything out of the burning house but himself.
Thus the representation of the fruitless believer's life relative to the quality of his life in heaven is burned up, leaving nothing of value for him with which to receive rewards and build his life in eternity in heaven. His life in heaven will be limited for all eternity!
CORROBORATING PASSAGES ON REWARDS AND THE JUDGMENT SEAT OF CHRIST
2 Cor 5:8-10
The primary responsibility of the Christian is to work as unto the Lord which is toward his inheritance in heaven.
Col 3:23-25
Rev 22:12
 

Sozo

New member
Jerry Shugart said:
Again,we can see why no one takes you seriously on this forum.

Jerry Shugart - Reputation: 231383

Sozo - Reputation: 9773470

No one?

I'll answer you when you respond to the question you ignored...

Tell me, Jerry, what "reward(s)", do you think you are going to get, and what qualifies you for those "rewards?
 

lightninboy

Member
I’m working on the building
It's a true foundation
I'm holding up the blood-stained
Banner for my lord
Well I never get tired, tired, tired of working on the building
I'm going up to heaven oh yeah, to get my reward
 

Sozo

New member
What reward lightninboy? What are you going to get, and what qualifies you for this so-called "reward"?
 

Sozo

New member
lightninboy said:
I admit I'm a wretch, but I can still believe the Bible teaches rewards.

And, what are they? And how do you qualify for them?

It's okay if you guess.
 

lightninboy

Member
I just want my life to glorify His Son
To make my Father proud that I'm His child before I'm done
No need to pat me on the back or stop the shake my hand
I just want to hear my Father say "Well done, well done"
I just want to hear my Father say "Well done"
 

lightninboy

Member
Sozo said:
And, what are they? And how do you qualify for them?

It's okay if you guess.
Well, there seems to be talk of ruling cities during the Millennium. Think of qualifying for a leadership position.
But even without that, there could be different amounts of accumulated heavenly wealth and different rewards. After all, giving one of God’s children a cup of water will be rewarded, won’t it?
1 Corinthians 13:3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

Bruce Wilkinson has a book and a DVD on the subject you might be interested in.
 

lightninboy

Member
There ought to be a hall of fame for mamas
Creation's most unique and precious pearls
And heaven help us always to remember
That the hand that rocks the cradle rules the world
 

Sozo

New member
lightninboy said:
Well, there seems to be talk of ruling cities during the Millennium. Think of qualifying for a leadership position.
But even without that, there could be different amounts of accumulated heavenly wealth and different rewards. After all, giving one of God’s children a cup of water will be rewarded, won’t it?
1 Corinthians 13:3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

Bruce Wilkinson has a book and a DVD on the subject you might be interested in.

Bruce Wilkinson?! :noway:

lightninboy, are you sure you are saved?
 
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