Question for Bob Hill: Rewards

[godrulz]

Belivers have already been judged, godrulz. You need to read a bible.

Teaching rewards (other than what I mentioned), is unbiblical and blasphemous.

Your heart is filled with your own righteousness. You will be disappointed when they only thing you receive from Jesus are the words that He never knew you.

YOU have absolutely ZERO biblical evidence of there being rewards in heaven, other than those given to those who are in Christ and are because of His works, not yours.

You are a false teacher.

Funny...Paul taught the Bema Seat of Christ which was based on rewards/works. Time to review your eschatology.

God gets all the glory, but stewardship is a biblical theme. In your desperate attempt to avoid self-righteousness, you have thrown the baby out with the bathwater and swung the pendulum to another extreme leading to unbalanced truth.

The exact nature of rewards is speculative, but their reality is hinted at from biblical principles. Take off the blinders. There is more biblical truth out there than you seem to be aware of due to your God-in-a-box views.

 

[Sozo]

Put up or shut up, godrulz.

We are sick of your big mouth, and no biblical evidence.

 

[Benjamin]

Google it or look in the dictionary. I think value has something to do with worth. God is the most valuable being in the universe because He is the perfect uncreated Creator. His value is the basis for our obligation to love, serve, and worship Him. If God knew of a more valuable being, He would tell us to worship that being. His worth and value are due to His inherent character and attributes. Are you saying God is worthless? Value has different meanings. Surely one of them should not sound foreign to you in a theological context. Value obligates. If God had no value, He would have no authority to command worship and obedience. Winkie Pratney, Finney, and others will help you understand this biblical concept.

You really have no right to demand answers from me. You lost your right with your constant attack of my Christian experience (worse than Hitler, Satan worshipper, etc.).

Feel free to put me on ignore. You waste my time and others with your narrow mind. If you hope to teach and influence, perhaps you should be more teachable.

Good post.

 

[Benjamin]

How about the both of you hold off until Bob Hill responds OK?

That was a lazy response.

I like you Knight, but if your older child is slamming your younger, more thoughtful kid into a telephone pole- do you spank both of them?

Come on.

 

[Benjamin]

How much endurance? It doesn’t say. But that’s the big question. I don’t think there can be many lapses, but we know God is merciful. But, He’s also fair. So when it says “If we deny Him, He also will deny us”, I think that means He will deny us reigning with Him if we deny Him by our life or His word.

2 Ti 2:13 If we are faithless, He remains faithful; He cannot deny Himself.
Our salvation is not on the line. Even if we become faithless (This word has a number of meanings. Here’s BGD edited: 1. disbelieve, refuse to believe—a. Mk 16:11; Lk 24:41. aypistoun refused to believe Ac 28:24; a. someone Lk 24:11. b. the relig. sense Mk 16:16. the unbelievers of pagans and Jews 1 Pt 2:7. 2. be unfaithful Ro 3:3; 2 Ti 2:13.), no matter, we have eternal security. We cannot lose our salvation. He cannot deny the body of Christ.

What a ball of Scripture twisting you have tallied up!

You twist the Word of God until it makes you feel comfortable- I suggest fearing God before you talk next time. Heretic.

 

[lightninboy]

It appears that Bob Hill and I agree on the matter of rewards.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

I just cannot understand how anyone cannot see that the following verses are speaking of rewards which Christians will receive:

"Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire" (1Cor.3:12-15).

These verses are not speaking about "salvation",because if it is of "works" then it is not of grace.

 

[Sozo]

I just cannot understand how anyone cannot see that the following verses are speaking of rewards which Christians will receive:

"Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire" (1Cor.3:12-15).

These verses are not speaking about "salvation",because if it is of "works" then it is not of grace.

All who come to Christ, receive THE reward, which is His life, and in His life we receive all that God has prepared for us.

The crown(s) that believers receive are life, righteousness, and glory through faith in Jesus Christ. All those who are in Christ receive them.

In this life, Paul referred to those whom he has preached the gospel to, and nurtured in the faith, are his crown. They are also his reward for laying the foundation (Jesus). And others are rewarded as they build on that foundation. They are rewarded in the fact that they see the fruit of their labor, in those who have grown in the faith; not that they get something extra in the age(s) to come.

Preaching a gospel of works, is building on the foundation with wood, hay, and straw, and the reward will be burned up. His efforts will produce nothing of value in the hearts of those whom he has shared.


I suggest you read the entire chapter.

 

[Silk Queen]

I just cannot understand how anyone cannot see that the following verses are speaking of rewards which Christians will receive:

"Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire" (1Cor.3:12-15).

These verses are not speaking about "salvation",because if it is of "works" then it is not of grace.

It is written through the new testament of rewards.

 

[Sozo]

It is written through the new testament of rewards.

Heaven is not a place for earthly reflection, because the things of this world have no relevance to those things which are eternal.
Your mind will be free from envy, and so there will be no ability to perceive one thing as having more value than another. This is why the entire bogus idea of rewards that is made up by mainstream Christianity, and not biblical, has damaged the furtherance of the gospel. Both Jesus and Paul, had to confront those who were always motivated by the prospect of rewards, when there is only one reward, which is THE eternal inheritance.

 

[kmoney]

Sozo,

What do you think the judgment seat in 2Cor 5 is about?

 

[lightninboy]

[Does he [the master] thank the servant because he did the things that were commanded him? I think not. So likewise you, when you have done all those things which you are commanded, say, "We are unprofitable servants. We have done what was our duty to do."]

“Luke 17:9-10 shows that the doctrine of rewards should not be a motivator for the Christian. In other words, we should not expect to receive rewards just because we are doing what we are supposed to be doing.”

This is groundless. Clearly our Lord taught in Matt 6:19-21 that we are to be motivated, at least in part, by the doctrine of rewards. He commanded us to set our hearts on treasure in heaven. So did the apostle Paul in 1 Cor 3:10-15; 9:24-27; and 2 Cor 5:9-10. So did the apostle John in 1 John 2:28. So did the apostle Peter in 1 Pet 4:13 and 5:1-4.

Luke 17:9-10 teaches that God is not inherently obligated to reward us for our labors. The reason He will reward us is that He chooses to do so, not because He has to.

The word translated "unprofitable" can also be understood as "not needed" (see Ethelbert Bullinger, A Critical Lexicon and Concordance to the English and Greek New Testament, p. 833). Our attitude should be that God doesn't need us. His kingdom work will go on just fine without us. It's our privilege to be able to serve Him. God could use someone else. He could use an angel, or He could do it Himself.

Lordship Salvation theology has little or no place for eternal rewards. According to its teaching, entrance into the kingdom is itself a reward for work done.

 

[lightninboy]

And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work. -Rev 22:12

This is a clear and definitive statement on the subject of rewards by the Lord Himself. Not to believe in rewards is not to believe His words.
Some Christians are troubled by the doctrine of rewards because this doctrine seems to suggest "merit" instead of "grace."
There is no way to escape the obvious implications that "rewards" are earned.
If we claim that rewards must be "by grace" then we are saying they can have nothing to do with "works." But if we say that, we contradict our Lord's words which relate His "reward" to each man's "work.;"
God gives us His salvation, but He pays us for our good works.
Another problem some Christians have with the doctrine of rewards is that this doctrine seems to them to appeal to our "selfishness." Such Christians may go on to say that we do not need to be motivated this way. Instead, we ought to do all that we do for God out of love and gratitude to Him.
Not only is a doctrine of rewards taught in Scripture, but we are actually commanded to pursue them.
Matt 6:19-21: We may observe here that our Lord does not present the pursuit of heavenly treasure as though it were optional. On the contrary, it is clear that He wants every disciple of His to lay up this celestial wealth.
God knows better than we do what will captivate our hearts for Him. Evidently, rewards play a significant role in this.
It may sound pious for someone to say: "I am not interested in rewards! I serve God out of love and gratitude alone!" But such a person is claiming to be more loftily motivated than even the apostle Paul himself!
We believe that no motivation encouraged by the Lord Jesus and His apostles could ever possibly be termed "selfish"!
What is wrong, in fact, is our own incorrect view of "selfishness." Scripture does not teach us to be uninterested in our own happiness or well-being. The very desire to escape eternal damnation is a legitimate and urgent self-interest. The instinct to preserve our lives is the same. Nor are pleasure and enjoyment illegitimate experiences.
Loveless activity will no doubt go up in billows of smoke at the Judgment Seat of Christ as though it were so much wood, hay, or stubble (1 Cor 3:11-15).
The doctrine of the Judgment Seat of Christ and of rewards is not merely not selfish. It is one of the strongest scriptural motivations for an unselfish, loving, and merciful lifestyle!

I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. Finally, there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will give me on that Day, and not to me only but also to all who have loved His appearing.
-2 Tim 4:7-8

 

[lightninboy]

It is my contention that just as a car breaks down without oil, the gospel of grace breaks down quickly without the doctrine of rewards.
Justification and sanctification are not the same. Neither are eternal salvation and eternal rewards.
"For the Son of Man will come... and then he will reward each according to his works" (Matt 16:27).
The word selfish has two main meanings: greedy at the expense of others, and intent on personal gain. The former is clearly unbiblical. The latter is not. Even the Lord Jesus endured the cross "for the joy set before Him" (Hebrews 12:1). The Hebrews 11 Hall of Fame is filled with people who were motivated by eternal rewards.
We are not competing against each other for some limited amount of rewards. God has an infinite amount of rewards to give. The more we encourage and help others now, the more we will all be rewarded later.
Matthew 20:1-16
The Parable of the Day Laborers does teach that laborers who worked different numbers of hours were equally paid. The person who worked one hour was paid one denarius—so the persons who worked 3, 6, 9, and 12 hours. One denarius was paid to all.
Doesn’t this prove that we will all get the same amount of eternal rewards? No one will get more or less than any other believer, right?
But wait a minute. If that is true, then why did the Lord speak in Luke 19 of one servant who will rule over 10 cities and another over 5 and another over none? Clearly there the rewards are not identical.
The Parable of the Day Laborers shows that God will not penalize a person for coming to faith in Christ shortly before they go to be with the Lord. All who serve God wholeheartedly during their Christian life, whether they are Christians for one year or 50 years before going to be with the Lord, will be rewarded equally.
But if a person comes to faith and doesn’t serve Christ wholeheartedly throughout his Christian life, he will not get the same degree of reward as one who does. Just as employers don’t pay all employees exactly the same wage, neither does God (Matt 16:27).
Won’t differences in rewards lead to jealousy in the kingdom?
This might be true if sin were possible for glorified saints. However, glorified saints will never sin. And since jealousy is sin, no glorified saint will experience jealousy.
A glorified saint might regret that he didn’t do more in this life for Christ, which is not sin. But he will be content with what he has, for all glorified saints will be content. Even in this life it is possible to not be jealous of those who have more.
God could have chosen not to reward faithfulness. He could still have motivated us to obey Him out of gratitude, present blessings and chastisement, and fear of rebuke at the bema. However, He chose to obligate Himself to recompense us for the work that we do. So our attitude should be one of humility, for we are merely servants. And we should be grateful that God has chosen to reward our obedience.
Revelation 4:9-10 does not refer to a one-time event. Most miss the fact that the first word in verse 9 is "whenever." Day after day these angelic beings are glorifying God and casting their crowns at His feet. They do not lose the crowns. They merely keep putting them at Jesus’ feet to honor Him.
I have found that the teaching of rewards energizes and motivates people.

 

[lightninboy]

2 Corinthians 5:10,"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad."
REGENERATION IS BY FAITH. . . .EVALUATION IS BY WORKS!
Every believer's Christian life will be subject to evaluation by Christ. This judgment for all Church age believers will take place immediately after the Rapture of the Church at the Bema or Judgment Seat of Christ (Rom 14:10; 1 Cor 3:10-4:5; 2 Cor 5:10-14). The end result of this evaluation of the believer's works will be the bestowal or denial of special rewards.
For the faithful Christian it will result in special reward being given in proportion to the quality of his works (see Luke 19:11-27). 1 Corinthians 3:13-15 the Bema.
In addition to allowing us to correctly understand various difficult passages and to properly correlate different types of verses, this principle ought to act as a powerful motivator to each of us as believers to live out a faithful life of rigorous discipleship.

 

[lightninboy]

Did Jesus in Matthew 10:32-33 teach that we must confess our faith in Him in order to get into heaven? Let's see.
The context clearly shows that Jesus was instructing His disciples about principles of discipleship, not justification. He warned them that men would persecute and possibly even kill them. Yet, they were not to be afraid. Why? Because, first, as believers (all but Judas) they were bound for heaven no matter what pain they might experience here (cf. Luke 10:20; John 13:10). And because, second, they would be rewarded in heaven for any suffering they endured here for Jesus' sake. Earlier in Matthew Jesus is recorded as having taught His disciples that their reward in heaven would be great if they suffered persecution on account of Him (Matt. 5:11-12). Getting into heaven is not a reward for suffering. Notice in Matthew 10 immediately after the verses in question that Jesus spoke of being "worthy of Me" by willingly suffering for confessing Him. This is clearly a rewards idea. No one is worthy of Christ in terms of entrance into the kingdom. However, there is a common New Testament teaching that by serving Christ faithfully now we can in a sense become worthy to be a co-ruler with Him in His kingdom (cf. 2 Thess. 1:5; 2 Tim. 2:12; 1 Pet. 2:l9; 4:l3; Rev. 2:26; 3:4-5, 21). Notice, too, that verses 41 and 42 deal with the idea of rewards for faithfulness. Giving food, shelter, and financial help to one of God's true spokesmen means that we will share in his ministry and his reward (Matt. 10:41). Giving even a cup of cold water in Jesus' name is rewardable (Matt. 10: 42). Clearly, then, confessing Christ, especially when persecution is likely to result, is very rewardable. Jesus is talking about rewards for faithfulness, not redemption for faithfulness.
What, then, did Jesus mean in verses 32 and 33 when He said that He would confess before the Father those who confessed Him and deny before the Father those who denied Him? He meant simply that. At the place where disciples are to be judged, the Judgment Seat of Christ, Jesus will praise or confess before the Father those who consistently by their words and deeds confessed Him before men. However, disciples who failed to consistently confess Him before men by their words and deeds will find that He will deny him something before the Father. What? Rewards. He will deny faithless disciples treasure in heaven and/or the privilege of ruling with Him. (Cf. Luke 19:11-26; 1 Cor. 3:10-15; 9:24-27; 2 Cor. 5:10; 1 Jn. 2:28.)
There is a verse which is conceptually parallel to this one, 2 Timothy 2:12.
Here is a powerful passage. If I deny Christ by my words and deeds, He will deny me the opportunity to reign with Him. Confessing Christ may lead to persecution and loss now, but ultimately it leads to blessings and gain forever. Oh, how I long to please Him and have Him confess me before the Father! What a day of rejoicing that would be!

 

[lightninboy]

He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.
-Revelation 3:5

There is a well-established figure of speech called litotes or understatement In this figure of speech a positive point is made by denying its opposite.
When the Lord says that He won't blot the name of the overcoming believer from the Book of Life, He means that He will give the overcomer a special fullness of life forever.
We know some of what this superlative experience will include: wearing special white garments (Rev 3:4-5), ruling with Christ (Rev 2:26-27; 3:21), eating the fruit of the tree of life (Rev 2:7), eating hidden manna (Rev 2:17), and receiving a white stone engraved with your own special name that only the Lord and you will know (Rev 2:17). None of these things is equivalent to eternal salvation. None of these things is required for kingdom entrance. These are all rewards awaiting the overcoming believer.
We don't know all that is in store for the overcoming believer. But from what we are told in the seven letters, we know that it will be something no one will want to miss.
William Fuller, who defends this understanding of Rev 3:5, writes, "A command that everyone keeps is superfluous, and a reward that everyone receives for a virtue that everyone has is nonsense."
Jesus said, "I came that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly" (John 10:10b). All believers have, and will forever have, life. Only overcoming believers have, and will forever have, life more abundantly. Paul echoed this same theme when he ended his letter to the Galatians with these words: "And let us not grow weary while doing good, for in due season we shall reap if we do not lose heart" (Gal 6:9).
For further discussion, see Zane C. Hodges's, Grace in Eclipse, Second Edition (Dallas, TX: Redencion Viva, 1985, 1987).

 

[lightninboy]

There are four strong motivations for people who know that they are secure forever to turn away from sin and to turn in obedience to serve God wholeheartedly day by day.
First, gratitude is a powerful motivator. As the famous British missionary of the last century, C. T. Studd once said, "If Christ be God and died for me, then there is nothing too great I can do for Him." Many cultures teach that if a person saves your life you are obligated to serve him for the rest of your life. The Apostle Paul said, "The love of Christ constrains us" (2 Cor 5:14).
Second, God rewards obedience with blessings here and now. Those who serve God faithfully receive love, joy, peace and other inner blessings which we all want and need. While health and wealth may or may not follow, joy and peace are guaranteed for faithful obedience.
Third, God disciplines us when we disobey Him. While every problem in this life is not a result of some sin in our lives, some surely are. The Lord promises not to spare the rod when we need it. In short, sin never pays. The pain which follows sin far outweighs its temporary pleasures.
Fourth, God rewards obedience with blessings forever. This life is like a proving ground. If we prove to have lived our lives in faithful service of our Lord, He will praise us at his judgment seat (the Judgment Seat of Christ) saying, "Well done, thou good and faithful servant" and He will give us wonderful rewards. All in God's kingdom will have joy; however, those who have lived for Him in this life will have a greater capacity for joy. And, as a result, they will experience a richer degree of joy than those who did not live for God in the life.
We do not need the fear of hell to motivate us. Indeed, if we fear hell it is because we do not believe that Jesus Christ has guaranteed us eternal life.

 

[Sozo]

There are four strong motivations for people who know that they are secure forever to turn away from sin and to turn in obedience to serve God wholeheartedly day by day.
First, gratitude is a powerful motivator. As the famous British missionary of the last century, C. T. Studd once said, "If Christ be God and died for me, then there is nothing too great I can do for Him." Many cultures teach that if a person saves your life you are obligated to serve him for the rest of your life. The Apostle Paul said, "The love of Christ constrains us" (2 Cor 5:14).

First of all, NO ONE "turns away from sin". That is blasphemy! Jesus shed His blood for sin ONCE for ALL.

C.T. Studd is an idiot.

"For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who became His counselor? Or who has first given to Him that it might be paid back to him again? For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things. To Him be the glory forever. Amen."

No can give something to God, that God is obligated to repay.

God rewards obedience with blessings here and now.

Only someone who is demonically inspired would say such a thing.

I wonder if that pervert is also willing to receive the curses when he falls short?

What incredible pride and arrogance. :nono:

 

[lightninboy]

Revelation 22:14-17
Some pastors and theologians use Rev 21:8 and 22:15 to try and prove that all "true" Christians persevere in the faith.
Verse 14 of Revelation 22 reads, "Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city."
Two things are promised to the one who obeys the Lord as a characteristic pattern of life (no one obeys perfectly, cf. 1 John 1:8, 10): (1) the right to the tree of life and (2) the right to enter into the New Jerusalem through its gates. At first reading these may seem to be things which are true of all believers. However, that is not the case.
What is "the right to the tree of life"? It is the right to eat its fruits. Compare Rev 2:7, "To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life."
The tree is called "the tree of life" for a reason. It will evidently grant to the believer who eats of it a special abundance of life.
It is true, of course, that the tree of life was in the Garden of Eden as well. However, its fruit would not have had the same effect on fallen people with ungloried bodies as it will have in eternity on saints with glorified bodies. The tree of life will only grant abundant life to those with glorified bodies. According to Gen 3:22 the reason God removed Adam from the garden was "lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life and live forever." Had he eaten that fruit Adam would have lived forever in a state of separation from God (spiritual death). of course, since the tree of life was never intended for that terrible purpose, God took it away from man until the eternal kingdom.
Most likely all believers will be going in and out of the New Jerusalem from time to time. Some believers in eternity will have their primary dwelling in the New Jerusalem. Surely those people will sometimes venture outside its walls, visit the rest of the new earth, and return. And, many saints will not live in the New Jerusalem! According to Rev 21:24 the new earth will contain many nations and the kings of those nations will travel to the New Jerusalem to take tribute to the King of kings. It is likely that all who live in these nations will make trips to the New Jerusalem.
For another thing, the gates will not be the only way by which someone could enter the city. For example, people might travel by air, flying over the walls. Or, they might come in on a subway, going under the walls. It is even conceivable in light of John 20 that people might travel right through the walls!
Finally, we know from the OT that the gates of ancient cities were places of honor. The respected elders of the community were allowed to sit in the gates and it was from there that they rendered judgments in legal matters (cf. Gen 19:1; 22:17; Deut 22:15; 25:7; Ruth 4:1-12).
Verse 15 is describing the condition of people at that time, not their experience in this life. No believer with a glorified body could be described as being a dog, a sorcerer, a sexually immoral person, a murderer, an idolater, or a liar. While those things were true of giants of the faith like David (2 Samuel) and Solomon (1 Kings 11) in their experiences prior to death, they could never be true of saints with glorified bodies.