ECT "PISTEUO", the secret of the universe....

[Danoh]

Nonsense. Members of the body are not torn apart, and those who claim they are saved by their own obedience are not members of the body of Christ.

The natural man cannot know spiritual things, which is why people like God's UnTruth are left preaching one untruth after another. Musty and I, for instance, have no disagreement on the justification of faith. It's GT that isn't able to comprehend it.

In the Believer; the natural man refers to that outlook, or way of looking at a thing - that had been the spirit or overall outlook of his mind - back when he was lost.

Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

2 Corinthians 10:2 But I beseech you, that I may not be bold when I am present with that confidence, wherewith I think to be bold against some, which think of us as if we walked according to the flesh.

2 Corinthians 10:7 Do ye look on things after the outward appearance? If any man trust to himself that he is Christ's, let him of himself think this again, that, as he is Christ's, even so are we Christ's.

Ephesians 4:17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind, 4:18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart: 4:19 Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness. 4:20 But ye have not so learned Christ; 4:21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: 4:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; 4:23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

The lost man IS able to understand Scripture.

BUT he finds it foolishness unto to him.

And as a result, he CHOOSES NOT to Believe it.

And because he does NOT believe it, ITS' light remains unable to shine in unto to him.

As a result, his spirit remains dead; alienated from ACTUALLY KNOWING the Life of God: the Spirit.

He cannot KNOW as HIS PERSONAL EXPERIENCE the Life of God.

As a result, cannot do, nor experience first hand, this that follows...

Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

The word "prove" in that passage is in the sense of to know a thing as one's personal experience - that, yes; God's will is real - it is good; it is acceptable, it is...perfect (full - all encompassing - there is NO argument against His Will that He has not considered).

But the lost man; having concluded it all foolishness; cannot know the truth first hand; he only knows ABOUT it; for it is spiritually discerned, but his spirit is dead; having remained dead because of his decision to remain in unbelief.

And no one is spared this willful ignorance...

The Jew first...

2 Corinthians 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. 3:16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away. 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the LORD.

But also, the Gentile...

Ephesians 4:17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind, 4:18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

In short, GD, I am right about this and you are, well, you differ, lol

Just ribbing you in our difference in this, Happy Easter, much loved one

Happy Easter to one and all. D...

 

[God's Truth]

I'm sure he did, being a human bean, but this one was not one of them.

You are sure who did what? You are not one of what?

The problem at the beginning of the Reformation was not imputa vs infusa.

It would be good if you use English.

As for the Reformation, it was led by Catholic priests who made some changes for the better but also added some falseness.

It was that imputa was lost! Non-existent! No one knew that's what Paul was really saying.

Paul says the same thing that all the prophets, and Jesus Christ says; and, that is to believe and obey God.

Do the Catholics believe and obey? No. The Catholics do many things God says not to do.

Do Lutherans believe and obey? No. They teach faith alone. They do not even believe we can obey until after they are saved. They are the half sibling to the Calvinists.

Do the Calvinists believe and obey? No. They do not believe salvation is to all, and they do not believe you can even believe or obey until after you are already saved.

Parallel to this is that Luther dreaded the 'righteousness of God' in Romans until realizing was the synonym of grace! Then he was excited and saw through so much of the darkness.

2nd, the church has a tendency to go dark. That is why it is important to study church history and to study the history of doctrines. Most false doctrines have been tried already. Why? These things can be found if you spend time on it.

The church is the body of Christ and will not ever go dark.

All denominations teach some falseness; some more than others.

 

[God's Truth]

Nonsense. Members of the body are not torn apart, and those who claim they are saved by their own obedience are not members of the body of Christ.

I am saved by eating Jesus. I eat Jesus by obeying HIS WORDS.

Tell me how you eat Jesus.

The natural man cannot know spiritual things,

The natural man is about those who care only about pleasing their flesh. Not everyone is only about pleasing their flesh.

You sound like a half sibling to the Calvinists. You do not believe we can obey until after we are saved. Show someone in the Bible who only obeyed after they were given the Holy Spirit.

which is why people like God's UnTruth are left preaching one untruth after another.

I teach believe and obey.

Musty and I, for instance, have no disagreement on the justification of faith. It's GT that isn't able to comprehend it.

We are justified by faith means we BELIEVE Jesus' blood CLEANS US of the SINS we REPENT OF.

 

[God's Truth]

Yep....they read the same to her. It's a critical difference, but she thinks words don't matter.

Words matter, and some words don't because they mean the same thing.

 

[God's Truth]

Jesus' words are Spirit and life. Tell me, how do you have life and receive Jesus words if you do not obey?

Believing is like drinking.

We have to do more than drink to survive.

We have to eat too.

We have to eat and drink.

We have to believe and obey.

After we eat and drink, Jesus gives us pure water to drink.

Do you know what all this means? It is scripture.

 

[God's Truth]

In the Believer; the natural man refers to that outlook, or way of looking at a thing - that had been the spirit or overall outlook of his mind - back when he was lost.

No. The natural man is about people who live to please their flesh. That is about the man who wants to please his flesh sexually and does not stop himself even if it means he committed adultery, and or had other types of immoral intimacy. The natural man only wants to please his flesh by wanting to get drunk or do drugs. The natural man only wants to make a lot of money so he can sit his flesh in the most expensive car he can find, and put himself in the most expensive house to show off what his flesh has done.

Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

2 Corinthians 10:2 But I beseech you, that I may not be bold when I am present with that confidence, wherewith I think to be bold against some, which think of us as if we walked according to the flesh.

2 Corinthians 10:7 Do ye look on things after the outward appearance? If any man trust to himself that he is Christ's, let him of himself think this again, that, as he is Christ's, even so are we Christ's.

Ephesians 4:17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind, 4:18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart: 4:19 Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness. 4:20 But ye have not so learned Christ; 4:21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: 4:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; 4:23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

The lost man IS able to understand Scripture.

BUT he finds it foolishness unto to him.

What you said does not make sense. You said he understands. No, he does not really understand. He does however think it is foolishness.

And as a result, he CHOOSES NOT to Believe it.

And because he does NOT believe it, ITS' light remains unable to shine in unto to him.

As a result, his spirit remains dead; alienated from ACTUALLY KNOWING the Life of God: the Spirit.

He cannot KNOW as HIS PERSONAL EXPERIENCE the Life of God.

As a result, cannot do, nor experience first hand, this that follows...

Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

The word "prove" in that passage is in the sense of to know a thing as one's personal experience - that, yes; God's will is real - it is good; it is acceptable, it is...perfect (full - all encompassing - there is NO argument against His Will that He has not considered).

But the lost man; having concluded it all foolishness; cannot know the truth first hand; he only knows ABOUT it; for it is spiritually discerned, but his spirit is dead; having remained dead because of his decision to remain in unbelief.

And no one is spared this willful ignorance...

That is where you go terribly wrong.

We are not all only concerned about our flesh only.

We are flesh and spirit.

Some of us want more to this life than to please our flesh. Some of us are more spiritually inclined.

The Jew first...

2 Corinthians 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. 3:16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away. 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the LORD.

But also, the Gentile...

Ephesians 4:17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind, 4:18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

In short, GD, I am right about this and you are, well, you differ, lol

Just ribbing you in our difference in this, Happy Easter, much loved one

Happy Easter to one and all. D...

What is an Easter?

Happy Resurrection Day.

 

[glorydaz]

In the Believer; the natural man refers to that outlook, or way of looking at a thing - that had been the spirit or overall outlook of his mind - back when he was lost.

Lots of talk there, Danoh, but none of it comes close to saying the natural man is a believer. In fact, instead of running off in every direction, you need only look at the verse in it's context. He is the opposite of the new creature in Christ Jesus. It's why when the natural man attempts to understand spiritual things, he has no spiritual discernment. He has no Spirit in him.

1 Cor. 2:10-14
But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.​

The natural man has never undergone the "operation of God" that Paul talks about here.

Colossians 2:11-13
In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;​

 

[musterion]

I've always taken Paul in that passage to be speaking of revelation, not illumination (as I was often told years ago). Another point for discussion perhaps.

 

[God's Truth]

I've always taken Paul in that passage to be speaking of revelation, not illumination (as I was often told years ago). Another point for discussion perhaps.

More arguing about words...illumination?

 

[Danoh]

I've always taken Paul in that passage to be speaking of revelation, not illumination (as I was often told years ago). Another point for discussion perhaps.

Yep, that is why - in - the - KJB - the word "spirit" in 1 Corinthians 2:12 "Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God" is in the lower case - because Paul is not refering to his having received the Spirit of God.

That is not what he is talkimg about there.

Rather, he is referring to the wisdom of God that he - Paul's spirit; Paul's mind, has received from God.

He is referring to God's Mind on certain things.

The "us" there, is Paul, ALONE.

Sort of like when we say "don't mind so and so," or "I've a mind to," or "what's on my mind is..."

These are all "spirit of your mind" types of statements - they refer to the spirit, outlook, or attitude of our mind.

Paul's spirit - his mind - had received the spirit or Mind of Christ, on certain things.

 

[Danoh]

More arguing about words...illumination?

Whatever, o darkened one...

 

[God's Truth]

Whatever, o darkened one...

If you had any idea about the light, you would not say that.

 

[Faither]

Seems like this might be an important subject.

Maybe some of you show take a better look?

 

[Cross Reference]

Faither,

Your definition of "Pisteuo" is NOT in any of the Greek dictionaries, including the ones that you claim as a source. You are adding to the requirements for Salvation, and that's very dangerous and WRONG. How we grow and mature as Christians is different than the requirements for Salvation.

The difference being whether you see yourself as being Born again or simply redeemed by believing the account of how it all came about, +nothing..

 

[Faither]

The difference being whether you see yourself as being Born again or simply redeemed by believing the account of how it all came about, +nothing..

This post by "journey is false or a lie. The Vines definition of "pisteuo" is as follows and is exactly what i've been presenting. All i'm adding to the definition is the real life application of it.

Vines : Pisteuo , a verb used 248 times , " A personal surrender to Him , and a life inspired by such surrender."

What do we surrender to Him ? Our life!

How do we live a life inspired by such surrender ? We make all the hundreds of daily decisions supporting the fact that our life is not ours anymore but His !

If we surrender ourselves to Him and turn right around and continue to serve ourselves , it will result in nothing. ( no Spirit of Christ , not His ).

And because we "DO NOT " recieve His Spirit at some moment of "belief" , we can try and make a genuine surrender time after time until God deems it genuine . As long as God the Father continues to draw us to Him.

 

[Cross Reference]

This post by "journey is false or a lie. The Vines definition of "pisteuo" is as follows and is exactly what i've been presenting. All i'm adding to the definition is the real life application of it.

Vines : Pisteuo , a verb used 248 times , " A personal surrender to Him , and a life inspired by such surrender."

What do we surrender to Him ? Our life!

How do we live a life inspired by such surrender ? We make all the hundreds of daily decisions supporting the fact that our life is not ours anymore but His !

If we surrender ourselves to Him and turn right around and continue to serve ourselves , it will result in nothing. ( no Spirit of Christ , not His ).

And because we "DO NOT " recieve His Spirit at some moment of "belief" , we can try and make a genuine surrender time after time until God deems it genuine . As long as God the Father continues to draw us to Him.

My comments aren't so much directed to you as with others who don't understand the distinction I am making.

Example from the OT: "I know my redeemer lives". When HE comes I will know Him and he will choose me because I have always sought to know Him. I will need no persuading.

"You did not choose Me, I chose you", Jesus.


Question: Was Nicodemus a believer unto redemption before the cross? How could he be and yet not be born again? . . .In a word, "Faith".

 

[lifeisgood]

Christ died for sinners, and for sinners who lived before he came to earth, and for sinners yet to be.

Praise God; otherwise, I would not have been saved.

We must admit we are sinners before we can even petition Jesus to save us.

Now, YOU, gt, petitioned Jesus to save you? You've got to be kidding me, gt. You've go to be kidding me.

All are sinners.

At least you have learned something.

 

[God's Truth]

Praise God; otherwise, I would not have been saved.



Now, YOU, gt, petitioned Jesus to save you? You've got to be kidding me, gt. You've go to be kidding me.



At least you have learned something.

All are not supposed to stay sinners.

Paul calls the saved 'holy people'. Can you show me scripture where he calls the saved sinners in Christ?

 

[Cross Reference]

Praise God; otherwise, I would not have been saved.



Now, YOU, gt, petitioned Jesus to save you? You've got to be kidding me, gt. You've go to be kidding me.



At least you have learned something.

Dear Life, Why would you suppose we need not petition Jesus for His salvation? . . just askin'?

 

[God's Truth]

Dear Life, Why would suppose we need not petition Jesus for His salvation? . . just askin'?

It is strange how lifeisgood said that. I didn't really give his statement much attention, so I'm glad you did.