ECT "PISTEUO", the secret of the universe....

God's Truth

God's Truth

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musterion said:
2 Cor ch. 2.



That's right. I agree with many that Paul might well have doubted the man was saved ("so-called brother") but he acted on faith that the man was saved and treated him as such...harshly. His actions demonstrate this:



1. Paul judged this wicked man guilty of sinning and as a threat to the church, so he ordered him expelled.

2. Paul also said he does not judge those "outside the church," meaning unbelievers. Nor should we. That's God's job. But those WITHIN the church -- believers -- are a different matter.

3. Paul assumed this man was saved and judged he be treated very harshly, for his own good.

4. Paul desired to see as many saved as possible; he would not have prescribed expulsion had he known the man was unsaved. He would have had someone preach the saving Gospel to him to make sure he believed it, then they could proceed accordingly. I refuse to believe that Paul would have ordered him cut off from THE ONLY PEOPLE IN CORINTH he'd hear the saving Gospel.

5. This incident shows that believers can sin to the point of being literally "wicked."
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The scriptures do not say the man repented.

Not only that, you cannot bring yourself to admit the truth, and it is the simple truth---and that is that we must obey to be saved, and to stay saved.

You dance all around the truth that the man was in the church and it does NOT mean he was a believer, and it does not mean he was NOT a believer because of his sin. What proves he is saved and a believer is if he obeys and stops sinning.
 
glorydaz

glorydaz

Well-known member
God's Truth said:
If the man was not a believer---it shows because he does NOT obey.
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Nonsense. There are many unbelievers who obey.

If the man is a believer, yet sins, he needs to stop sinning.
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Nonsense. Believers have been delivered from the law.

If the man is a believer, yet sins, and then stops sinning, then he has saved himself.
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Nonsense. Salvation is a gift of God. There is only ONE SAVIOUR.
 
God's Truth

God's Truth

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glorydaz said:
I don't think we've spent much time discussing this, and it would be nice to be able to do so without GT butting in at every turn.

As far as this particular guy being saved, I doubt it. I've seen believers do things they shouldn't, but they don't revel in it. This guy was doing things even the gentiles didn't do and all they had was their God given conscience. Putting that aside, though, Paul was very concerned that the assembly was ignoring it ....thereby seeming to condone it, and therefore he admonished them. Paul knew that if the man was flaunting his deeds in the assembly, he would not turn from his evil deed by having his deed condoned. His one chance was to be cast into the world where he would be forced to once again seek out the light. A person cannot bring their own darkness into the light and expect to keep it.

We go out into the world to preach the Gospel for a reason.
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This is hilarious, for you are making a case for OBEDIENCE.

You are so confused you do not even know what you are doing, IMHO.
 
musterion

musterion

Well-known member
glorydaz said:
is one chance was to be cast into the world where he would be forced to once again seek out the light.
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What conviction would an unbeliever get from being cast out to indulge his flesh when all he is, is flesh?

Let's walk through this...an unbeliever has sat in this church for who knows how long, indulging a gross sin that the church does not address, along with the sins of many others. Clearly the guy dug what he and Mom were doing...he apparently had no reason not to.

Suddenly, the elders get orders to kick him out and cut him off from all contact.

THAT is going to lead an unbeliever to repentance and belief in the Gospel? No...that would only harden him in his sin and make him resent the church (happens even today...they get offended for having their beloved sin questioned, leave, and don't come back).

Paul did not extend grace (as such) to this guy. He did not tell them to share the Gospel with him to ensure he was indeed saved.

Paul's condemned and judged the wicked man, unto repentance, hopefully, something which he said he does not levy against unbelievers because that's God's job, and right now God gives them GRACE.

Paul did not give that dude grace!

Instead he treated the guy exactly like what he was: a sinning, unrepentant believer who needed very tough love for his own good.

Tell me I'm wrong if you think I am, but does my reasoning make sense?
 
God's Truth

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musterion said:
Those "some" without knowledge of God are the malnourished, stunted Christians who still indulge their flesh because they evidently did not know everything you're rightly pointing out about who and what we are in Christ. THAT is why Paul speaks this to their shame -- the shame of the derelict Corinthian elders who were supposed to have raised those new believers on meat by now but hadn't even been giving them milk, apparently. Everything wrong with the Corinthian church was their fault.
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What a case in deed; we have you here too making a case for OBEDIENCE.
 
God's Truth

God's Truth

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Finally, they are coming around to the Truth that we have to obey to be saved.

However, I do not think they know what they are saying.
 
God's Truth

God's Truth

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musterion said:
No. He was already in Christ, which no unbeliever is. As with yourself, who is still unforgiven because you deny that the death of Christ dealt with all your sin.
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I couldn't care any less about what you think of me.

As for the scriptures, tell me, if he is already in Christ and sins as he did, why then should he be thrown out so Satan could have his way with his flesh? I know why, but I want to hear your explanation.
 
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