God's Truth
New member
Paul was trying to get this man saved. Paul said throw him out so that Satan will have his way with his flesh. What does that mean? That means may this man come to REPENTANCE of his sins so he can be truly saved.
ECT "PISTEUO", the secret of the universe....
- Thread starter Faither
- Start date
Paul was trying to get this man saved. Paul said throw him out so that Satan will have his way with his flesh. What does that mean? That means may this man come to REPENTANCE of his sins so he can be truly saved.
musterion
Well-known member
1 Cor 15:34 and Eph 4:22-24 makes no sense if believers can't, in our flesh, still sin.
glorydaz
Well-known member
You're willfully blind, aren't you? You preach obedience to commands. I don't. The obedience of faith is believing unto salvation....trusting in Christ's obedience not our own.
God's Truth
New member
Christ's death and resurrection means it is finished. The Jews didn't have to sacrifice animals anymore; and the Gentiles didn't have to be kept far apart for not sacrificing animals.
musterion
Well-known member
I agree that Paul may well have wondered about many in Corinth, including that guy, but I believe Paul treated him with apostolic authority exactly as a sinning believer was to be treated at that time. Sorry, but it's beyond miraculous that this unsaved sinning guy would be so convicted by being kicked out of the church that he then back out into the world, was free to indulge his sin...but THEN somehow got saved while completely cut off from believers. I don't buy it. But we've discussed this before and won't agree on it. And that's okay.
God's Truth
New member
SO THEN, why do YOU say those Corinthians were NOT SAVED?!
God's Truth
New member
I agree that Paul may well have wondered about many in Corinth, including that guy, but I believe Paul treated him with apostolic authority exactly as a sinning believer was to be treated at that time. Sorry, but it's beyond miraculous that this unsaved sinning guy would be so convicted by being kicked out of the church that he then back out into the world, was free to indulge his sin...but THEN somehow got saved while completely cut off from believers. I don't buy it. But we've discussed this before and won't agree on it. And that's okay.
GD, Danoh, and you all keep missing the Truth.
If the man was not a believer---it shows because he does NOT obey.
If the man is a believer, yet sins, he needs to stop sinning.
If the man is a believer, yet sins, and then stops sinning, then he has saved himself.
God's Truth
New member
You all are not going to get around the Truth, and that is that we have to obey.
ClimateSanity
New member
musterion
Well-known member
No.
Unbelievers LOVE their sin and don't give it up. This man LOVED fornicating with his own mother but eventually gave it up. We never read that he got saved after being kicked out; only that he repented. At THAT point he was restored because he was a believer the whole time.
musterion
Well-known member
Show where Paul indicates that this man in Corinth was NOT saved.
True.
Not from damnation; that was taken care of at the Cross.
God's Truth
New member
You are making things up that are not in the scriptures. You should watch yourself better because it is a grave sin.
It was his father's wife, and you do not know if he gave it up.
Where does it say he repented? If he repented then that is PROOF that he is saved and that Paul was speaking about a believer.
You are one confused person.
God's Truth
New member
He saved himself in this life---and in the next.
glorydaz
Well-known member
We've been delivered from the law.
This is all talking about what happens TO US when we are quickened after hearing and believing the Gospel. This is what happened to you. You were crucified with Christ. This is the "new creature" that has been created IN Christ Jesus. If you have believed unto righteousness...been crucified with Christ, you are raised in newness of life....a new man...renewed in the spirit of your mind. The old man has been put off....that's not something we accomplish, but what has been accomplished in us.
Eph. 4:20-24 But ye have not so learned Christ; 21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: 22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; 23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; 24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
Otherwise, wouldn't we have a reason to boast?
Do you see all the IF's in this chapter. This verse isn't talking about the believer who has already believed unto righteousness and all things are new. This is speaking of those IF's and those who have not the knowledge of God.
1 Corinthians 15:34
Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.
Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.
Impossible to save yourself
God's Truth
New member
I knew somebody would come along and say that something like that against the scriptures.
Acts 2:40 With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, "Save yourselves from this corrupt generation."
musterion
Well-known member
2 Cor ch. 2.
That's right. I agree with many that Paul might well have doubted the man was saved ("so-called brother") but he acted on faith that the man was saved and treated him as such...harshly. His actions demonstrate this:
1. Paul judged this wicked man guilty of sinning and as a threat to the church, so he ordered him expelled.
2. Paul also said he does not judge those "outside the church," meaning unbelievers. Nor should we. That's God's job. But those WITHIN the church -- believers -- are a different matter.
3. Paul assumed this man was saved and judged he be treated very harshly, for his own good.
4. Paul desired to see as many saved as possible; he would not have prescribed expulsion had he known the man was unsaved. He would have had someone preach the saving Gospel to him to make sure he believed it, then they could proceed accordingly. I refuse to believe that Paul would have ordered him cut off from THE ONLY PEOPLE IN CORINTH he'd hear the saving Gospel.
5. This incident shows that believers can sin to the point of being literally "wicked."
musterion
Well-known member
And if he can, you can too. Right?
glorydaz
Well-known member
I agree that Paul may well have wondered about many in Corinth, including that guy, but I believe Paul treated him with apostolic authority exactly as a sinning believer was to be treated at that time. Sorry, but it's beyond miraculous that this unsaved sinning guy would be so convicted by being kicked out of the church that he then back out into the world, was free to indulge his sin...but THEN somehow got saved while completely cut off from believers. I don't buy it. But we've discussed this before and won't agree on it. And that's okay.
I don't think we've spent much time discussing this, and it would be nice to be able to do so without GT butting in at every turn.
As far as this particular guy being saved, I doubt it. I've seen believers do things they shouldn't, but they don't revel in it. This guy was doing things even the gentiles didn't do and all they had was their God given conscience. Putting that aside, though, Paul was very concerned that the assembly was ignoring it ....thereby seeming to condone it, and therefore he admonished them. Paul knew that if the man was flaunting his deeds in the assembly, he would not turn from his evil deed by having his deed condoned. His one chance was to be cast into the world where he would be forced to once again seek out the light. A person cannot bring their own darkness into the light and expect to keep it.
We go out into the world to preach the Gospel for a reason.
musterion
Well-known member
Those "some" without knowledge of God are the malnourished, stunted Christians who still indulge their flesh because they evidently did not know everything you're rightly pointing out about who and what we are in Christ. THAT is why Paul speaks this to their shame -- the shame of the derelict Corinthian elders who were supposed to have raised those new believers on meat by now but hadn't even been giving them milk, apparently. Everything wrong with the Corinthian church was their fault.