ECT Pauls teachings all came from the OT concerning Israel
- Thread starter Lazy afternoon
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Yep; MAD is too hot for the shleppers :chuckle:
Then the kingdom and dominion,
And the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven,
Shall be given to the people, the saints of the Most High.
His kingdom is an everlasting kingdom,
And all dominions shall serve and obey Him.
(Daniel 7:27)
And the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven,
Shall be given to the people, the saints of the Most High.
His kingdom is an everlasting kingdom,
And all dominions shall serve and obey Him.
(Daniel 7:27)
Interplanner
Well-known member
I may be wrong, but I think what you are referring to is the period of the Gospel. But that is not what Eph 3:6 is about. It's emphasis is not on the inclusion of the nations (which is everywhere in the OT) but the mechanism or channel that does so. It is 'through the Gospel' that all the shared outcomes happen.
This is why I teach (another thread) that even if you or anyone thinks that the passage has helped MAD or D'ism, they have (perhaps) doubly misunderstood. I didn't think D'ism wanted a shared outcome; they want evidence of separation. It's not there. But the passage is also not saying that that shared outcomes were hidden. They weren't. It was well-known.
The veiled thing, the mysterious thing, was the shared outcome in the Gospel. The resurrection of Christ made the outcomes shared, and fulfilled all promises to Israel, says the SPIRIT of Christ, through the apostles (Acts 13's sermon is deeply unified with Acts 2 and 3 on this).
Judaism thought it would have been in the Law, and had missionaries going out that way.
Nang
TOL Subscriber
Not all messages mankind has received from God, are the Gospel message that saves souls.
God has administered to different people in different ways, to fulfill different purposes . . But for the purpose to save souls, God works solely through the covenanted good news of Jesus Christ crucified. Period.
All the Law, and the prophets, brought this Gospel message. Luke 24:44-48
There is no other means of salvation but hearing the promised, sole, everlasting, Gospel of Grace manifested in Jesus and performed by The Christ of God, alone.
Interplanner
Well-known member
I think this helps explain why 'it was credited to him as righteousness' shows up in Genesis' narrative about Abraham. It is used heavily by Paul, but has almost no other background in the narrative that leads up to it. Those other purposes (for ex., the promise and fulfillment of a land as a symbol for God's people) complete other goals, but not justification from our sins. Justification from our sins has always been one message, has always had one way of being accomplished, unifying the Bible. The Gospel event occurred "recently" but was always in the picture. Justification was always through a credited righteousness, even though the Gospel event occurred after or before most of the existence of individual humanity.
Nang
TOL Subscriber
Amen.
Another example: ". . Noah found grace in the eyes of God." Genesis 6:8
How did Noah find grace (favor) with God and escape God's wrath and judgement? It is only by faith that any sinner can please God. So Noah evidently was given the Gospel message, believed God's word of promise, and was looked upon as righteous in the eyes of God.
It is a marvel to search and find the faithful sons of God in the O.T. passages; who believed the Gospel promises with much less information as modern man has of the performance of Covenant by Jesus Christ.
SaulToPaul 2
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All you have to do is read and believe.
Gen 6
8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord.
9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.
Yep!
Ditto on the yep.
Believe what?
Nang
TOL Subscriber
On what basis did God declare Noah to be "just," and "perfect?" Noah was a sinner just as any other son of Adam.
The basis for Noah being declared just and perfect, was his walk with God. Noah believed in the just and perfect Savior promised by God.
These were imputed qualities bestowed upon Noah, by the grace of God, due to Noah's faith in the Gospel promises. Same as Abraham being declared "righteous" due to his faith in the Gospel promise of a righteous Savior from God.
O.T. saints saved by the grace of God, are saved by faith in the promises of a Seed from Eve who would rectify the fall of mankind into bondage to sin, death, and the devil. (Genesis 3:15) These godly men were saved by grace through faith, and imputed with the rightousness of the Savior, just as N.T. saints are saved by grace through faith and imputed with the righteouness of the Savior.
And these salvific blessings from God were/are the result of receiving the capacity (new hearts to love and call on the name of God; eyes and ears to hear and see the Truth) and believe the Gospel message. The same Gospel message Paul and all the sons of God still proclaim to this day.
You are reading a "one size fits all" into the words "just" and "perfect" there, etc.
While you are at it; you might as well "one size fits all" the word "salvation" in the following passage and conclude it is referring to salvation from eternal damnation...
Exodus 14:13 And Moses said unto the people, Fear ye not, stand still, and see the salvation of the LORD, which he will shew to you to day: for the Egyptians whom ye have seen to day, ye shall see them again no more for ever.
Interplanner
Well-known member
Actually, while justification does and did have to do with the day of judgement (Rom 3), it had an important social side to it. It generated love that the world found remarkable because it was as fragmented as today. It also has tremendous impact in us now about guilt and shame.
Nang
TOL Subscriber
No, I specifically interpret these words according to their usage and context.
To be declared by God as "just" is the opposite of being declared "guilty."
To be declared by God to be "perfect" is the opposite of being declared "sinful."
And the only basis for God declaring any sinner with such pronouncement, is those sinners being found imputed as righteous in Jesus Christ, who alone is Just and Perfect.
Except, it is not me that has so used this language, as you falsely charge.
Nang
TOL Subscriber
When God declares a person "just" it means nothing less than that person is "justified" according to the Law of God; exonerated and declared pardoned from any sentence of guilt and all wrong doing.
And of course, we know that this divine work of justification is only known by those gifted with faith in Jesus Christ and His imputed righteousness.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Yes, what is it called when you read into the passage instead of extracting truth out of the passage?
It's a simple passage. Nang doesn't buy it.
Interplanner
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What is simple is the book of Hebrews and its miniature in Col 2. The shadows are over with, the Reality has come in Christ. You are seeking all the shadows to come back, not realizing they are all fulfilled.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
:chuckle:
heir
TOL Subscriber
Nope! Unsearchable and hid in God!
Ephesians 3:8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;
Ephesians 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
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