"OSAS" people are not answering this question.

[genuineoriginal]

How can OSAS be a lie, if no one is S?

It would be the O that makes OSAS a lie.

When this mortal puts on immortality, as Paul put it, then we are truly saved and will always be saved, so the SAS part would hold true.

 

[musterion]

You need to go back and read the fine print to find out exactly what He promised.


It is amazing how you like to change God's words by adding to His promises, such as adding the word "unconditional" when the promises clearly contain conditions.

Revelation 22:19 19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.​

Just what do you suppose you will have left of the promise if God shall take away your part from the book of life?

Find me a condition for a believer not being eternally separated from Christ from any of Paul's letters.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

It would be the O that makes OSAS a lie.

When this mortal puts on immortality, as Paul put it, then we are truly saved and will always be saved, so the SAS part would hold true.

Ok, but if we aren't saved until then, seems OSAS would still be true.

:e4e:

 

[patrick jane]

Ok, but if we aren't saved until then, seems OSAS would still be true.

:e4e:

yep. it is once and always - Ephesians 1:7, 13 KJV -

 

[genuineoriginal]

Find me a condition for a believer not being eternally separated from Christ from any of Paul's letters.

Romans 11:18-21 18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. 19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in. 20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.​

 

[musterion]

Romans 11:18-21 18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. 19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in. 20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.​

Not talking about salvation.

Have fun earning the love and forgiveness of your probational idol.

 

[heir]

This does not mean a one time occurrence , it is ongoing concerning everything we say and do.

Then, we're all doomed.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Ok, but if we aren't saved until then, seems OSAS would still be true.

:e4e:

If you are referring to the words "Once Saved Always Saved" then you are right. Once we are saved at the Resurrection of the righteous, then we will never see death again.

However, the doctrine of OSAS does not refer to being saved at the Resurrection of the righteous, it refers to the moment of confessing belief in Jesus as the point of salvation and then makes the false claim that once you have confessed belief in Jesus then you can never lose out on eternal life, no matter how wicked you become after turning away from Him.

 

[Shasta]

You've been spoiled by philosophies of men and van deceit after the rudiments of the world and not after Christ (Colossians 2:8 KJV) as your "faulty interpretation" leads you to insert yourself into all of the passages of the Bible, but you simply are not there. None of that which is written outside of Romans through Philemon was to you directly! The very fact that people like you and me (Ephesians 2:11-12 KJV) were made nigh by the blood of Christ (Ephesians 2:13 KJV) was in other ages not made known, hidden in God and UNSEARCHABLE in the OT!

Ephesians 3:1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,

Ephesians 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

Ephesians 3:3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

Ephesians 3:4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

Ephesians 3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

Ephesians 3:6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

Ephesians 3:7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

Ephesians 3:8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;

Ephesians 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

Ephesians 3:10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

Ephesians 3:11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

Ephesians 3:12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.

And is to this day being hid from the people in the religious, denominational systems all over the world by these:

2 Corinthians 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.

2 Corinthians 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

Acts shows what was known to be the practice of early Christianity - that all believers were Baptized (in water) immediately following conversion. I am not a sacrementalist but that is what they did historically. Paul's teachings on the spiritual significance of water Baptism take for granted that the believers he is talking to had that common experience. You are supposing on the basis you MAD's disdain for physical ceremonies that "Baptism" means something other than what it commonly meant which is water Baptism.

Because I bring this issue up as I have you are now associating me and all denominations of being in the same class as "deceitful workers of iniquity." In fact, your view that "none of that which is written outside of Romans through Philemon" applies directly to modern believers is contrary to the earliest testimony of Christianity in all the centuries following the Apostolic Age. Were you to present your views on MAD and OSAS back then your views would have been considered heterodox.

 

[heir]

OSAS is a lie.
You are not saved yet, so keep working out your salvation with fear and trembling, the way Paul told you to do.
That way you can be sure of your salvation.

If I was not saved, I could not work out my own salvation!

 

[genuineoriginal]

Not talking about salvation.

You are blind if you think that this has nothing to do with salvation.

Romans 11:11 11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.​

 

[God's Truth]

Your verse is referring to Israel who were not under grace.

Jesus came with grace, see John 1:14.

He came and taught the Jews how to enter God's grace.

There is a difference between loving someone and liking what they are doing.

Were your parents always pleased with your behavior?

They were the ones who initiated your existence, when they did not like what you were doing did they end that existence or did they continue to love you inspite of your disobedience?

Your parents did not love you perfectly, but God does, would God take away the eternal life he gave you simply because you are not perfect?

You can do right and God will be your Father, or you can do wrong and the devil will be your father. That is what the Bible says.

If so, then God's promise of eternal life is meaningless, for if he can take away that gift then you never had it, it was never yours.

All Christians have received the gift of eternal life, thus they will live eternally. Nothing they do or don't do will diminish that gift of eternal life. It is our opportunity our power base to do those things that please God. As in Acts 1:8, Ephesians 2:10. Without the gift of salvation, it is impossible for us to do those good works that God foreordained that we should walk in.

You are badly mistaken.

Revelation 3:3 Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; obey it, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you

 

[genuineoriginal]

If I was not saved, I could not work out my own salvation!

Paul says your salvation is worked out through repentance and obedience.

2 Corinthians 7:10 10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.​

Philippians 2:12 12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.​

 

[heir]

Acts shows what was known to be the practice of early Christianity - that all believers were Baptized (in water). I am not a sacrementalist but that is what they did historically. We see this in the Book of Acts and Paul's teachings on the spiritual significance of water Baptism take for granted that the believers he is talking to had that common experience. You are supposing primarily on the basis you MAD's distaste for ceremonies, even those commanded by Jesus that "Baptism" means something other than what it commonly meant.

Because I bring this issue up as I have you are accusing me and all the denominations of being in the same class as "deceitful workers of iniquity." In fact, your view that "none of that which is written outside of Romans through Philemon" (applies directly to Gentile believers) is contrary to the earliest testimony of Christianity. Were you to present your views on MAD and OSAS back then your views would have been considered heterodox.

Water baptism has no place in the church today! You endevour to NOT keep the unity of the Spirit that Paul beseeches us to keep (where there is only ONE baptism Ephesians 4:1-6 KJV) in favor of your denominationalism which makes you spoiled, like it or not (Colossians 2:8 KJV). The only thing water baptism does is get you wet and allow religious, deceitful workers to count you and get a puffed up chest as they glory in your flesh! It's no different than those who wanted the Galatians to be circumcised! Same story, different day!


Galatians 6:12 As many as desire to make a fair shew in the flesh, they constrain you to be circumcised; only lest they should suffer persecution for the cross of Christ.

Galatians 6:13 For neither they themselves who are circumcised keep the law; but desire to have you circumcised, that they may glory in your flesh.

Galatians 6:14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

 

[heir]

Paul says your salvation is worked out through repentance and obedience.

2 Corinthians 7:10 10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.​

Philippians 2:12 12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.​

Nope! The gospel of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV) is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

and is how we are made partakers of Christ!

Ephesians 3:6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

 

[genuineoriginal]

Nope! The gospel of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV) is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

and is how we are made partakers of Christ!

Ephesians 3:6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

Paul spent time exhorting believing Christians to continue in the Grace of God and to continue in the faith.

Acts 13:43 43 Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.​

Acts 14:21-22 21 And when they had preached the gospel to that city, and had taught many, they returned again to Lystra, and to Iconium, and Antioch, 22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.​

Guess what Paul says will happen if you stop continuing in the Grace of God and in the faith?

Romans 11:22 22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.​

 

[heir]

You are blind if you think that this has nothing to do with salvation.

Romans 11:11 11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.​

It has nothing to do with ours!

 

[heir]

Paul spent time exhorting believing Christians to continue in the Grace of God and to continue in the faith.

Acts 13:43 43 Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.​

Acts 14:21-22 21 And when they had preached the gospel to that city, and had taught many, they returned again to Lystra, and to Iconium, and Antioch, 22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.​

Guess what Paul says will happen if you stop continuing in the Grace of God and in the faith?

Romans 11:22 22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.​

Continuing in the grace of God is to continue in God's goodness by being established by the gospel of Christ! (Romans 1:9-16 KJV)

Romans 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

Romans 16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

Romans 16:27 To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen.

...

1 Thessalonians 3:2 And sent Timotheus, our brother, and minister of God, and our fellowlabourer in the gospel of Christ, to establish you, and to comfort you concerning your faith:

 

[genuineoriginal]

It has nothing to do with ours!

It has everything to do with your salvation.

Colossians 1:21-23 21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled 22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: 23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;​

Everything about your salvation is dependent on your continuing in the faith.

 

[heir]

Paul spent time exhorting believing Christians to continue in the Grace of God and to continue in the faith.

Acts 13:43 43 Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.​

Acts 14:21-22 21 And when they had preached the gospel to that city, and had taught many, they returned again to Lystra, and to Iconium, and Antioch, 22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.​

Guess what Paul says will happen if you stop continuing in the Grace of God and in the faith?

Romans 11:22 22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.​

To continue in the faith is about doctrine/ to hold fast the form of sound words that we have heard of Paul 2 Timothy 1:13 KJV, 2 Timothy 2:2 KJV, 2 Timothy 2:7-8 KJV, 2 Timothy 4:7-8 KJV. It has nothing to do with salvation, but reward!

1 Corinthians 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.

1 Corinthians 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

1 Corinthians 3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

1 Corinthians 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

1 Corinthians 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

1 Corinthians 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.