"OSAS" people are not answering this question.

[Shasta]

Nope. The Colossians, just like we, are complete in Him

Colossians 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

God hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light, not by something we do.

Colossians 1:11 Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;

Colossians 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:

And just like the Ephesians, it is God Who hath made us accepted in the beloved. It's not by anything that we have done, but to the praise of the glory of His grace!

Ephesians 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

Ephesians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Ephesians 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Ephesians 1:6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

As abiding believers they were but their future state was conditional. That is why the "if" was put there. If your belief were correct and all sins past present and future were forgiven at the initial step of salvation then being holy and unblamable before him would not depend on whether we continue in our faith and in the truth of the gospel.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

I am not judging any particular group or Church but I have known many Christians who have fallen into sin. I have had occasion to talk to them at length about their life and while some of them were not believers many of them were. From where you are you may not be able to see these people but those of us who work on the ground deal with it all the time.

Paul had to take believers to task for their sin and even kick them out. He did not tell the Church to preach Christ to them so they would be saved, he disciplined them because they were believers. Was he being judgmental too or was he exercising truth and love.

You guys sure are obsessed with "Other peoples" sin.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

What we have here is, "Modern day Pharisees" with stones in hand.

 

[genuineoriginal]

This is false.

Gift: gift
ɡift/
noun
noun: gift; plural noun: gifts

1.
a thing given willingly to someone without payment

re·ward
rəˈwôrd/
noun
noun: reward; plural noun: rewards

1.
a thing given in recognition of one's service, effort, or achievement

Seems you dont understand the difference here.

We are given grace -

Grace - 2.
(in Christian belief) the free and unmerited favor of God
.

Grace has nothing to do with reward. Rewards are earned, grace is free.

You are assuming the 21st century American English definition of the 17th century British English words in the Bible is an accurate translation of the 1st century Koine Greek words.

It is not.

There is nothing unmerited about God's Grace, He shows Grace towards those who please Him, not towards those who displease Him.

1 Corinthians 10:5 5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.​

 

[genuineoriginal]

Saying He did it all, isnt looking for license to sin, its giving the credit where the credit it is due. To Him, who is our covering and He is and will continue to be without sin.

The OSAS philosophy is that "Jesus did it all, so I don't have to do anything." That is the main thing wrong with OSAS.

The secondary thing wrong with OSAS is claiming anyone that does not believe in OSAS is trying to earn their salvation through keeping the Law.

Nobody can obligate God to give them eternal life through keeping the Law.
God only gives eternal life to the people that please Him through their faith (faith, not empty belief).

We are not judged by our merits, we are judged by His.

That is not true.
We are judged by our merits according to God's standards.

God is looking for those He considers to be the best people to fill His kingdom according to His standards.
God's standards are simple, be someone that pleases Him.
Those people that meet His standards are the ones chosen by Him to receive the gift of eternal life as a reward for pleasing Him.

Those people that fail to meet His standards will not receive the gift of eternal life, but will be judged according to their works.

 

[Danoh]

You are assuming the 21st century American English definition of the 17th century British English words in the Bible is an accurate translation of the 1st century Koine Greek words.

It is not.

There is nothing unmerited about God's Grace, He shows Grace towards those who please Him, not towards those who displease Him.

1 Corinthians 10:5 5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.​

Lol, yea, you really proved you point, what a mess.

Why didn't you do that with at least a minimum three passages where "grace" was the issue within them, and within their scope and context?

And the English of the KJV is not "17th century British English," it s a form of Early Modern English unique to the KJV and Bibles of that time. It was much more informal than the English you read in the KJV's Preface.

Further, while you got one right; its as short lived as its taken me to write this.

I have seen this mistake often made including, even within my own "camp" - where today's Modern North American English sense is read into the KJV's Early Modern English..

By that, some end up coming up with understandings that differ from the ones intended within the passages, so yeah; there's your three seconds of glory.

For you are still way off in your above 17th century this 21st Century American this and that...

Fact is, its just a matter of how words are used, in relation to who, by whom, as to what, in light of what, when and where and why, in contrast to elsewhere, when and why - within "the volume of the Book."

Lol, as the much missed John W might say, sit down til you're called on...

 

[turbosixx]

The OSAS philosophy is that "Jesus did it all, so I don't have to do anything." That is the main thing wrong with OSAS.

The secondary thing wrong with OSAS is claiming anyone that does not believe in OSAS is trying to earn their salvation through keeping the Law.

Nobody can obligate God to give them eternal life through keeping the Law.
God only gives eternal life to the people that please Him through their faith (faith, not empty belief).

That is not true.
We are judged by our merits according to God's standards.

God is looking for those He considers to be the best people to fill His kingdom according to His standards.
God's standards are simple, be someone that pleases Him.
Those people that meet His standards are the ones chosen by Him to receive the gift of eternal life as a reward for pleasing Him.

Those people that fail to meet His standards will not receive the gift of eternal life, but will be judged according to their works.

That's right. Jesus did for us what was impossible for us to do but there is much we can and should do to be concidered worthy of our calling.

Rev. 3:4 But you have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their garments; and they will walk with Me in white, for they are worthy. 5 He who overcomes will thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels. 6 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.'

 

[genuineoriginal]

And the English of the KJV is not "17th century British English," it s a form of Early Modern English unique to the KJV and Bibles of that time. It was much more informal than the English you read in the KJV's Preface.

The KJV was translated into the English language by the command of the British king in the 17th century.
Claiming it was some form of "Early Modern English" is a misnomer and as subject to misinterpretation as the words used in the KJV itself.

My claim that it was written in 17th century British English is much more accurate because it points to the time and country where the definitions can be found for the words used by the translators.

Here is an example from Edward Phillips’s New World of English Words, published in London in 1658:

_____
Grace, Favour, or Good-will; Agreeableness, genteel Air, Comliness. In Divinity, the Mercy and Loving-kindness of God in finding out Means for the Redemption of Mankind, and in sanctifying the Elect; also a Power or Disposition to yield Obedience to the Divine Laws, and so practice all Christian Virtues.
_____​

You can see that there is nothing about "unmerited" in the definition of Grace used in that time and place.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

You are assuming the 21st century American English definition of the 17th century British English words in the Bible is an accurate translation of the 1st century Koine Greek words.

It is not.

There is nothing unmerited about God's Grace, He shows Grace towards those who please Him, not towards those who displease Him.

1 Corinthians 10:5 5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.​

You are correct.

2000 years is not very long when we consider that the greeks did not have to change their bible from the original , that is the ones the families passed down from generation to generation.

The KJ version has many discrepancies and steers the reader many times to the church culture of its day.

LA

 

[Lazy afternoon]

This is false and presumptuous and judgmental of you, anyone who wants an excuse to sin, is likely not saved.

Saying He did it all, isnt looking for license to sin, its giving the credit where the credit it is due. To Him, who is our covering and He is and will continue to be without sin.

We are not judged by our merits, we are judged by His.



That is what is wrong altogether, we do nothing for salvation - nothing we dont earn it and we dont keep it, He did and does.

The same applies to you.

The faith involves relationship between two parties, not one.

2Ti 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
2Ti 2:11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him:
2Ti 2:12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
2Ti 2:13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

This does not mean a one time occurrence , it is ongoing concerning everything we say and do.

Mal 3:16 Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name.
Mal 3:17 And they shall be mine, saith the LORD of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him.
Mal 3:18 Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.

LA

 

[oatmeal]

You are assuming the 21st century American English definition of the 17th century British English words in the Bible is an accurate translation of the 1st century Koine Greek words.

It is not.

There is nothing unmerited about God's Grace, He shows Grace towards those who please Him, not towards those who displease Him.

1 Corinthians 10:5 5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.​

Your verse is referring to Israel who were not under grace.

There is a difference between loving someone and liking what they are doing.

Were your parents always pleased with your behavior?

They were the ones who initiated your existence, when they did not like what you were doing did they end that existence or did they continue to love you inspite of your disobedience?

Your parents did not love you perfectly, but God does, would God take away the eternal life he gave you simply because you are not perfect?

If so, then God's promise of eternal life is meaningless, for if he can take away that gift then you never had it, it was never yours.

All Christians have received the gift of eternal life, thus they will live eternally. Nothing they do or don't do will diminish that gift of eternal life. It is our opportunity our power base to do those things that please God. As in Acts 1:8, Ephesians 2:10. Without the gift of salvation, it is impossible for us to do those good works that God foreordained that we should walk in.

 

[heir]

As abiding believers they were but their future state was conditional.

We are saved whether or not we abide. You sure do have a trust issue.

2 Timothy 2:13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

That is why the "if" was put there. If your belief were correct and all sins past present and future were forgiven at the initial step of salvation then being holy and unblamable before him would not depend on whether we continue in our faith and in the truth of the gospel.

If your belief was correct (which it CLEARLY ISN'T), then NONE of your sins were forgiven when Christ died for our sins as ALL OF OUR SINS were in the FUTURE when Christ was delivered for our offences and was raised again for our justification! Thank God my salvation is based upon what God did in my place! Romans 4:25 KJV, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, Colossians 1:14 KJV, . I am forgiven ALL TRESPASSES! ALL means ALL and there aren't anymore! (Colossians 2:11-13 KJV)! And we are holy and without blame before Him in love (Ephesians 1:3-5 KJV) to the praise of the glory of His grace...!

Ephesians 1:6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

Ephesians 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

 

[Right Divider]

I find it amazing that you chose the very verse (Romans 5:15) that I used when I looked up "free gift" and found the definition for the Greek word used. It must have been the Holy Spirit trying to grab your attention so you could have a chance to learn.

_____
χάρισμα • ‎(khárisma) (genitive χαρίσματος); n, third declension
A favourable disposition towards: grace, favor
A voluntary favourable act: favor, gift
_____​

You can't obligate God to give you eternal life by saying a few words and then turning your back to Him, the way OSAS believers claim.

You are a BIG TIME LIAR gen, you son of the devil.

 

[Right Divider]

If you think bowing your knee before God is work, then wait until Jesus returns and everyone has to bow the knee before Him.

I bow before Him NOW, so I don't have a problem.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Your verse is referring to Israel who were not under grace.

The reason the children of Israel were not under grace is because of their disobedience and wickedness.
That is why Paul used them as an example for Christians to warn Christians against disobedience and wickedness.

There is a difference between loving someone and liking what they are doing.

Yes, God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son so that anyone that believed in Him would not perish but receive eternal life.

Were your parents always pleased with your behavior?

They were the ones who initiated your existence, when they did not like what you were doing did they end that existence or did they continue to love you inspite of your disobedience?

What does God Himself say about that?

Deuteronomy 21:18-21 18 If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: 19 Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; 20 And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. 21 And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.​

If God commanded parents to put their children to death for being stubborn, rebellious, disobedient, and wicked, then why would you demand that God violate His own command and spare you?

Your parents did not love you perfectly, but God does, would God take away the eternal life he gave you simply because you are not perfect?

Would it be because you are not "perfect" or would it be because you are stubborn, rebellious, disobedient, and wicked?
Don't be deceived by the leaven of the Pharisees.
God does not give eternal life to the wicked.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.​

If so, then God's promise of eternal life is meaningless, for if he can take away that gift then you never had it, it was never yours.

That is correct, you do not have eternal life yet, you only have the conditional promise of eternal life after you have done the will of God.

Hebrews 10:36 36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.​

All Christians have received the gift of eternal life, thus they will live eternally. Nothing they do or don't do will diminish that gift of eternal life.

No, all Christians have received the promise of eternal life.
We don't actually receive eternal life until this mortal puts on immortality.
Until that time, we are given the Holy Spirit of promise as a seal to prove that we are His possessions, but the Holy Spirit can be grieved, the Holy Spirit can be quenched, and the Holy Spirit can be taken away, all because of us being stubborn, rebellious, disobedient, and wicked.
That is when you can be sure that your name has been blotted out from the book of life and you will not receive the promise because you are a slave that ran away from your Lord and Saviour and refused to return.

It is our opportunity our power base to do those things that please God. As in Acts 1:8, Ephesians 2:10. Without the gift of salvation, it is impossible for us to do those good works that God foreordained that we should walk in.

You do know that the Word of God never says it is impossible for us to do the good works that God tells us to do, right?
What does the word say?

Deuteronomy 30:11-14 11 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. 12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? 13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? 14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.​

And to answer your lame objection that this was for the children of Israel and not the Christians, Paul quoted this very passage for Christians as well.

Romans 10:6-9 6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above: ) 7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.) 8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.​

 

[genuineoriginal]

I bow before Him NOW, so I don't have a problem.

Good, as long as you continue to bow before Him throughout the rest of your life, you won't have anything to worry about.
:thumb:

 

[genuineoriginal]

You obey by lying?

No, you do not obey by lying and telling people that they are saved when they first believe the way OSAS believers do.
If you tell that lie, then when people fall from Grace, the you have to tell a second lie about them never having been saved in the first place, making it so no one is sure whether they said the right magic phrase or if their effort to believe was good enough this time.

Paul told us how we obey:

Romans 13:9-11 9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law. 11 And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed. ​

Please notice that Paul did not say you received salvation when you first believed, but said that salvation is now nearer than when you first believed.

OSAS is a lie.
You are not saved yet, so keep working out your salvation with fear and trembling, the way Paul told you to do.
That way you can be sure of your salvation.

 

[musterion]

I find it amazing that you chose the very verse (Romans 5:15) that I used when I looked up "free gift" and found the definition for the Greek word used. It must have been the Holy Spirit trying to grab your attention so you could have a chance to learn.

_____
χάρισμα • ‎(khárisma) (genitive χαρίσματος); n, third declension
A favourable disposition towards: grace, favor
A voluntary favourable act: favor, gift
_____​

You can't obligate God to give you eternal life by saying a few words and then turning your back to Him, the way OSAS believers claim.

You're right. We can't. So we don't.

He obligated Himself through being unable to lie about what He promised us all in the Gospel. That includes unconditional eternal security in His Son, which your church says you cannot claim for yourself.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

OSAS is a lie.
You are not saved yet, so keep working out your salvation with fear and trembling, the way Paul told you to do.
That way you can be sure of your salvation.

How can OSAS be a lie, if no one is S?

 

[genuineoriginal]

You're right. We can't. So we don't.

He obligated Himself through being unable to lie about what He promised us all in the Gospel.

You need to go back and read the fine print to find out exactly what He promised.

That includes unconditional eternal security in His Son, which your church says you cannot claim for yourself.

It is amazing how you like to change God's words by adding to His promises, such as adding the word "unconditional" when the promises clearly contain conditions.

Revelation 22:19 19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.​

Just what do you suppose you will have left of the promise if God shall take away your part from the book of life?