"OSAS" people are not answering this question.
- Thread starter redpill4vr
- Start date
Right Divider
Body part
I notice that turbo never quotes Paul's writings. He is always stuck in the Hebrew letters (Christ's earthly ministry to Israel, the book to the HEBREWS, the book of Revelation, etc. etc.).
So many are unwilling to come to God in His way.
turbosixx
New member
I love Paul, he is amazing to me. Here is one from Paul.
Rom. 11:20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God's kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.
elohiym
Well-known member
A4T posted a verse from Hebrews. Did you miss that? How come you don't tell her that's not written to the Body, blah, blah, blah?
glorydaz
Well-known member
I see you completely ignored the verses I gave you. :chuckle:
It's not too much reading, oh snide one. If you want me to address your verses while you ignore mine then I won't bother to do this every time. But....
Back up....context is everything. Paul, as usual, addresses those who have been delivered and translated into the kingdom of the Son....
Col. 1:13-14 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
He also addresses all others. Here, Paul is talking about the whole world being reconciled by His death.....there is a MUCH MORE...not just those who hear the gospel that was preached to every creature, but those who believe unto salvation...do not turn back as many did who followed the Lord, and as many did proving they were not "of us" (as John spoke of in his letter).
If you were really paying attention, you'd notice this is talking about reconciliation and not salvation. Hence the IF.....not grounded and not settled in the faith is not saved. There is MUCH MORE than just being reconciled. Romans 5:10.
Col. 1:21-23 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled. In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
And John...did you really read that verse? If what you heard abides in you......When did the Holy Spirit become a WHAT? Christ in you is a "WHAT"? Really? I submit you don't have a clue what John is saying. Besides which, there is a promise there...you will abide. :think:
It most certainly is boasting if it has anything to do with your being saved or keeping yourself saved. The scripture says salvation is a GIFT....NOT OF YOURSELF and not of works that any should boast. You cannot even claim the Spirit HELPED YOU to do anything which affects your salvation. He can help you grow in grace, and he can help you in being conformed, but Christ did the entire work of saving you and keeping you saved, and HE ALONE gets the glory. YOU get NONE. Now....please respond to the two verses I gave you and show me where your help was needed while He performed His good work in you. While you're at it...who does the work...giving you the desire and the ability to do His good pleasure? YOU?
Philippians 2:13
For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
turbosixx
New member
Here is another from Paul.
Col. 1:21 And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds, 22 yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach- 23 if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.
Right Divider
Body part
turbosixx
New member
If not, then what is he talking about?
Right Divider
Body part
The olive tree is symbolic of service to God.
turbosixx
New member
Could you please show me that using the context.
The Greek states what the modern English translation convey, so you're just deflecting here and NOT answering the question.
That's right, as John acknowledges in 1 John 2:1-2 (NIV). Of course unbelievers sin more. The Pharisee was self righteous, as many who purport to no longer sin are. The so-called sinner, who admitted to sinning was the more righteous person, as Jesus said in Luke 18:9-14 (NIV) Apparently you missed that point?
I don't cherry pick and definitely don't use scripture out of context. You'll find it's best to play it straight with me and not prevaricate.
Well then John say YOU are deceived. 1 John 1:8 (NIV)
I suggest you reread John's epistles, and relearn everything you think you know about sin. You're very confused.
elohiym
Well-known member
He is wrong. The Olive Tree is symbolic of Christ (Romans 11). Paul was certainly using the figure of the Olive Tree from Jeremiah 16:16. That it refers to Christ may only make sense to you if you believe Judah was being used in a prophecy about Christ.
The Olive Tree is symbolic of God's promise and kingdom, which He Himself sustains.
Right Divider
Body part
You need to use the entire Bible as your context.
Being grafted into or cut off from the olive tree is NOT talking about salvation and eternal life.
Romans 11 is all about the FALL of Israel and their future restoration.
Paul says it over and over again:
Rom 11:11-12 KJV I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. (12) Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
I don't know how he could make it more clear.Rom 11:13-15 KJV For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: (14) If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them. (15) For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
Again and again....Rom 11:25-27 KJV For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. (26) And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: (27) For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
Crystal clear.
turbosixx
New member
So the Gentiles are grafted into Israels future?
elohiym
Well-known member
I already defeated your argument in my response to Shasta. See posts #890 and #891.
No, Stan. You didn't understand the parable at all. To say you sin less than unbelievers is to say exactly what the Pharisee said, and that is clearly what you are doing. The Pharisee didn't think he no longer sinned, just that he sinned less but his sins were covered by a sacrifice. You think you sin less than the unbeliever and think your sins are covered by a sacrifice. There isn't a person who doesn't sin in the story.
For an example of two people who kept all of God's commandments, you can see Luke 1:6. They were not self-righteous because they didn't break God's commandments, and they were nothing like that Pharisee in the parable. Would you call them liars and self-deceived if they said they kept all God's commandments blamelessly? I hope not because the scripture states they did in spite of you thinking it's not possible.
Oh fun! A self-righteous admitted sinner rebuking me for not sinning like he does.
Last edited:
Right Divider
Body part
elohiym
Well-known member
Being "cut off" from God's promise and kingdom per Romans 11:22 would be equivalent to being "cut off" from the Body of Christ, so even your interpretation, which you've given no evidence to support, gets you to the same place.
turbosixx
New member
It is talking about salvation.
Rom. 6:22 But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life.
11:11 I say then, they did not stumble so as to fall, did they? May it never be! But by their transgression salvation has come to the Gentiles, to make them jealous.
He's talking about salvation for the Jews as well.
14 if somehow I might move to jealousy my fellow countrymen and save some of them.
Life from dead is not physical but Spiritual.
15 For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?
27 "This is My covenant with them, When I take away their sins."
The forgiveness of sins is possible through Christ then and now.
Acts 2:38 Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins;
Last edited: