More than likely, he is not.
"OSAS" people are not answering this question.
- Thread starter redpill4vr
- Start date
More than likely, he is not.
They ought to be fearful. If they're not a part of the Body of Christ,
they're headed for judgment and the Lake of Fire.
Shasta
Well-known member
There is assurance and power for all whose heart is to continue with him. These scriptures affirm that He will also work in us to bring us home. However they do not address the case of a person who is in rebellion or who is rejecting the faith.
Paul's views on ultimate salvation are explained in Colossians 1:21-22.
First Paul identifies those he is writing to those who were unbelievers in the past
21 And you, who once were alienated and hostile in mind, doing evil deeds
Then he describes their present state as believers
22 he has now reconciled in his body of flesh by his death,
Next he lays out God's purpose and plan for them in the future:
22...in order to present you holy and blameless and above reproach before him,
If the passage stopped here the doctrine of OSAS would remain intact but Paul adds conditions which must be met if they are to receive the promised reward:
23 IF indeed you continue in the faith, stable and steadfast, not shifting from the hope of the gospel that you heard, which has been proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, became a minister.
Paul says that in order to reach the promised reward we must continue in the faith. Let us look at the opposite choice. What if instead of meeting this condition we abandon our faith and deny the truth of the gospel? What happens then? Well, according to this verse we will NOT be among those who will be presented before him holy and unblamable, prepared for eternal fellowship.
Paul’s teaching about salvation plainly disagrees with the OSAS axiom that everyone who starts with Christ will inevitably continue to the end.
Also, despite MAD’s claims that Paul's teaching was different from that of the other Apostles we see here that John and Paul are in perfect agreement over the crucial issue of how people are to be saved and walk with God.
In his first letter John writes the following.
... If what you have heard from the beginning (the gospel) remains in you, then you will remain in the Son and in the Father. 25 And this is the promise that He Himself made to us: eternal life (1 John 2:24-25)
"IF" indicates that the consequent reward will ONLY happen if the condition is met.
The word John uses "remain" is the Greek word meno which means abide, remain continue. The reward of eternal life will only be enjoyed by those who remain in Him and continue in the truth of the Gospel.
Whereas John uses the word meno Paul uses the compound form of the same word EPI (upon)meno. Adding the EPI has the effect of intensifying meno so that it means continue on with persistence
http://biblehub.com/greek/1961.htm
Paul is saying that continuing in the faith requires us to make choices. It is a narrow road and persistence is needed to travel on it. This is not to say his way is burdensome. “His yoke” is light. However we must remain yoked to him in order to reach the end and fulfill our purpose. The Holy Spirit is always there to give any willing believer the grace to do so.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Then where is your assurance of salvation? It sounds like you don't think you can be lost but think others can. :think:
Do you walk by sight and not faith? Surely you aren't buying the claims of unbelievers. Of course you will see Christians in name only. There is nothing new there. That has been going on since the dawn of time.
Really? That is exactly what you have done. You see all these people that live like sinners but claim to be saved. And I see all these people that act all holier than thou but have not ever believed the gospel of salvation. Making claims is very easy to do.
And, if you're honest, there are people who can look at your life and find sin there. Some people think celebrating a birthday is a sin....anger? Do you get angry? Do you think our loving Father would toss us out of His house because we weren't perfect? Adoption doesn't work that way even in this day and age.
Just as I thought. You have people in your church who have assurance of their own salvation, but refuse to accept that others are out there that have that same assurance. You have stereo-typed those who use the words OSAS as wrong while you and your friends think your "assurance" is fine.
We all must freely accept the GIFT of salvation, but we are absolutely incapable of keeping ourselves saved. The Spirit does the work in us....we are BEING CONFORMED....we are being trained up in the way we should go as adopted sons of God. Sounds to me like many people in your church know this....and you seem to know it yourself (from your first paragraph). What you refuse to do is admit it. Is your trust in the Lord or in yourself? You'd do well to think about that and what you've been preaching.
Shasta
Well-known member
The fact remains for the first four hundred years Christianity held to freewill and denied OSAS. That was the unbroken testimony of the early leaders back to the time of the Apostles How could Paul and all the others failed to pass on their (supposed) beliefs even to one, two, three generations? You can hide from that discrepancy and forget I ever said it but that does not do away with the evidence contained in their books.
If you had lived in the First three Centuries of the Church your view would be considered heterodox and probably Gnostic.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Yep, you can write many words and parse many verses and explain all you want to....it comes down to your words here, "WE MUST REMAIN YOKED". Man, the glory stealer, insisting on adding himself to our Lord's work on the cross and the Spirit's work in our lives.
Guess what....you have just given yourself a reason to BOAST. God's GIFT has NO STRINGS, and man can take no credit. Boasting is excluded by the LAW OF FAITH. :nono:
Shasta
Well-known member
Again you say nothing
Amen!
Dan Emanuel
Active member
Correct. This took place during a time where they're was just 1 Church. The cluster's of Christian's all over the known world made up the 1 Church that Jesus Himself built. Upon Peter.
You can't.
Nowhere. He address's it to "Lover of God." 'Could be that this Theophilus (Luke 1:3 KJV (Acts 1:1 KJV)) is the Church herself, who know's.
A most excellent strategy, when writing in Greek.
And, a most excellent strategy when writing . . .
Yes, a lot! By the time Luke wrote his book's, the Church was decade's old. Ten's of thousand's, if not hundred's of thousand's; if not million's or more; by the time Luke wrote Luke.
The ratio of Greek's/Gentile's, to those of Abraham, in the Church, by the time Acts 2:41 KJV happened, was probably hundred's of Abraham, for every Gentile. Maybe 500-to-1. By the time Luke actually wrote Acts 28:31 KJV, it was probably closer to 1 descendent of Abraham for every 100 Gentile's/Greek's, and maybe much, much less (1-to-500).
Luke was writing to Gentile's/Greek's --in Greek.
The pope's don't teach it, F.W.I.W.
DJ
1.0
glorydaz
Well-known member
Better than saying the wrong thing.... :chew:
Shasta
Well-known member
I see you centered on one remark and ignored all the rest of what I said. I think that is because you cannot answer it. But if that is too much reading here is the scripture by itself:
Colossians 1:21-23
1 John 2:24-25 In both look at the little word "if"
Also, it is not boasting if the Holy Spirit helps me in what He commands me to do.
glorydaz
Well-known member
I'm afraid we can't trust your reading skills then....You can't even see it when you read Paul.
Shasta may someday get saved, but for now, he'll have to settle for, lost.
the irony.
They claim to be saved and true Christians. they don't call that boasting.
they don't seem to know Jesus is the authority to judge who will be saved or not.
Did those of you who believe OSAS is false, tear this out of your bible?
Hebrews 7:25 Therefore He is able also to save forever those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.
Hebrews 7:25 Therefore He is able also to save forever those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.
Dan Emanuel
Active member
Yeah, good point. What do they need intercession for, if they never sin anymore?
DJ
1.0
turbosixx
New member
Not at all and I believe that verse 100%. There is a qualifier in that verse, “those who draw near”. As long as we abide in Christ we will be saved but we have to abide.
The way I understand it, we have to take all the scriptures and find agreement. We can’t choose one and ignore others.
Have you torn this one out or “figure” it doesn’t apply to you.
Rev. 3:5 He who overcomes will thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.
Im already saved, no will be to it.
John 5:24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
Christ already took my place. Praise the Lord!
turbosixx
New member
What about this in the same book you quoted earlier.
Heb. 3:12 Take care, brethren, that there not be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart that falls away from the living God.
He then gives them an example of those who were on their way to the promised rest but didn't make it.
Thats not what it says. But everyone is on their way by nature of being here, we all have the opportunity for salvation, some will seek it and some wont.
The price was paid for everyone, but many will reject it.
You keep believing you have the power to undo what you never did to begin with though, instead of celebrating the good news.