beloved57
Well-known member
You are a false witness, believing is something the person does ! Can a person be saved, that Christ died for, without believing ?
Once saved NOT necessarily always saved.
- Thread starter iouae
- Start date
You are a false witness, believing is something the person does ! Can a person be saved, that Christ died for, without believing ?
How can you be saved before you have been created?lain: See: Predestination and Will: How are predestination and election connected with foreknowledge?
The answer is you cannot be saved before you are born because you do not exist yet.
lain:God is calling out a people for his namesake. Whosoever will will. Whosoever won't won't (Ro 10:13).
SeraphimsCherub
New member
How can you be saved before you have been created?
Satan doesn't really need new tricks, does he?
See:
Predestination and Will: How are predestination and election connected with foreknowledge?
Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
Eph 1:6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
The answer is you cannot be saved before you are born because you do not exist yet.
God is calling out a people for his namesake. Whosoever will will. Whosoever won't won't (Ro 10:13).
God knows the beginning to the end of everything. He knows/
knew who would come to a saving knowledge of His Son and who
would not.
iouae
Well-known member
No! The same tricks work well every time, so why change them?
And one of those tricks is to fool folks into thinking that believing in Jesus is the END of a journey, whereas it is just the beginning of a faith walk.
If I were a betting man, I bet the Man of Sin will teach us to believe in Jesus - period. He will teach that it is Jesus and NOTHING. That is why he is the "Lawless One" and the "Man of Sin" and the "Anti-Christ". Jesus and NOTHING sounds so religious. It sounds like we have no part to play. The theme of the Bible is God calling out to us to play our part.
Whereas Christ teaches grace as power to overcome sin, he will teach that grace covers sin. Come as ye are and stay as ye are - Christ did it all for you from the foundation of the world, or from the cross or whenever.
This philosophy which invokes Christ's name is nothing more than the philosophy behind all religions. And all religions push the theme of an afterlife, "thou shalt not surely die".
He knows what is knowable. Choose him. He'll choose you back. Ge 22:12
heir
TOL Subscriber
No it isn't. What a :troll: you are.
No. Eternal life is the gift of God through our Lord Jesus Christ (Romans 6:23 KJV)! But like any gift, it must be received. If you push away the gift and don't accept the content of the package, it is not in your possession. You have not claimed it.
1 Corinthians 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
heir
TOL Subscriber
Yep, Romans 8:29-30 KJV
iouae
Well-known member
Acts 16
30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.
33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.
So they did at least one other thing within minutes of the start of their faith walk, and that was to be baptised.
That was doing something was it not?
Peter in Acts 2 likewise commanded that.
37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
So minutes after believing they are on the road to DOING.
I wouldn't. :idunno: I'd go on vacation.
"You cannot have a 'come in Savior' and a 'stay out Lord' (Ro 14:9)." ~ Adrian Rogers
My pastor says: come as you are; leave forever changed. There's a Sodomite church ([Ex 20:14] heterosexual [Lev. 20:10–12] homosexual [Lev. 20:10,13]) one block away that teaches: come as you are; stay as you are.
One in our church has a pig for a wife who kicked him to the curb and then brought her adulterer to church. He was asked by his former church to come at another time because his presence upset the whore. He found our church and I trust that should one try that in our church, we'd escort the evil-doer not the innocent party out (Mt 18).
Ben Masada
New member
Once Saved NOT necessarily always saved
Once Saved NOT necessarily always saved
It depends on the kind of salvation you are talking about. There are two kinds. One is universal salvation from universal catastrophes. This kind, yes, once saved, one is always saved. And the other kind is personal salvation. To this one, "One saved, always saved" does not apply. We have to obey the Law and work on it daily to keep oneself saved.
One more word regarding the universal salvation: Soon after the Flood, Yahweh promised Noah that He would never allow another to destroy all Mankind, as long as the natural laws worked properly. (Gen. 8:21,22) Jeremiah read that text and connected it with the existence of Israel as a People before the Lord forever, as long as the natural laws worked properly. (Jer. 31:35-37) As Jesus read both references he concluded that, indeed, salvation comes from the Jews. (John 4:22)
Once Saved NOT necessarily always saved
It depends on the kind of salvation you are talking about. There are two kinds. One is universal salvation from universal catastrophes. This kind, yes, once saved, one is always saved. And the other kind is personal salvation. To this one, "One saved, always saved" does not apply. We have to obey the Law and work on it daily to keep oneself saved.
One more word regarding the universal salvation: Soon after the Flood, Yahweh promised Noah that He would never allow another to destroy all Mankind, as long as the natural laws worked properly. (Gen. 8:21,22) Jeremiah read that text and connected it with the existence of Israel as a People before the Lord forever, as long as the natural laws worked properly. (Jer. 31:35-37) As Jesus read both references he concluded that, indeed, salvation comes from the Jews. (John 4:22)
You are in the wrong thread. Back to your garden of tulips.
How are you doing with that law? :smokie: Ga 3:24, 5:3, Jas 2:10
iouae
Well-known member
Pastors these days devote their energy to explaining AWAY the Bible, instead of explaining the Bible.
No wonder folks are so confused.
They are so used to church service after church service being told by the pastor that when the Bible says X it actually means B.
So members have lost all confidence in understanding the Bible for themselves, since it never seems to mean what it literally says.
Shasta
Well-known member
Your answer is simple but very clear. Arguing that "those who fall away from the faith in tribulation" were never reallyIN the faith is like saying this seed was never planted, or, if it was, that it never germinated (brought forth life). In fact, though, it did on both counts, otherwise the living plant that sprang from the seed could not have "withered" and died. A mere seed cannot wither and die. A non-existent plant cannot wither and die either.
Peter, repeating the teaching of the seed he had heard from Jesus said:
23 since you have been born again, not of perishable seed but of imperishable, through the living and abiding word of God (1 Peter 1:23)
He also quotes a Messianic scripture saying:
24 for
“All flesh is like grass
and all its glory like the flower of grass.
The grass withers,
and the flower falls,
25 but the word of the Lord remains forever.”
And this word is the good news (or Gospel) that was preached to you.
(1 Peter 1:24-25)
The Word of the Lord is the same as the Gospel or "good news." Despite what MAD doctrine says about Jesus gospel being obsolete (i.e., for a different people in a different dispensation) Peter says The Gospel "continues," "remains," or "abides," "stands" forever. These words are all synonyms for the same Greek word). "Forever" is longer than any single dispensation. This verse means that the Gospel Jesus taught stands today.
Though the power of the Gospel to save continues forever not everyone who is born again by it continues in the Life. This is the clear meaning of Jesus parable. To misunderstand this is to misunderstand what eternal life is. John explains the meaning of "eternal life" in his letter, which, I remind those who believe in MAD was written to Gentile believers in Asia Minor at time when the Jews were only a minority in the Church.
Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. IF that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.
(1 John 2:24)
And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life (1 John 2:25)
As we continue to "LET" His word abide, remain, continue, in us we have His eternal life. Life is in Him. We continue to enjoy it as we continue to abide in Him. The promise of eternal life as it is revealed here is not an static thing we receive and thereafter possess unconditionally. It is living and organic and life. Because it is we can, through falling into a lifestyle of sin or through denying the Truth, become detached from the Vine and die.
heir
TOL Subscriber
Paul's answer to the question is clear and your trying to add to it is noted.
iouae
Well-known member
Ben
Did God anywhere in the OT promise eternal life for obeying the law or keeping the Old Covenant?
There definitely were blessings for obedience, but these were all physical ones, like saving Israel from its enemies (Deut 28)
heir
TOL Subscriber
that's a lie!
Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
iouae
Well-known member
Oh Heir, please don't "note" me
There are 1050 commands in the NT. Those should be "noted".
Matthew 7:21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.