Once saved NOT necessarily always saved.
- Thread starter iouae
- Start date
I don't agree with my pastor on all things but I do appreciate that he calls a spade a spade (1 Pe 4:3).
To them (Lk 8:10) not to us (Mt 16:17).
See:
Hermeneutics
Ben Masada
New member
I don't keep the Law to go to heaven. Only dogs behave well for a treat aka reward.
Shasta
Well-known member
Are you basing your belief in unconditional eternal security upon predestination?
There's no such thing as once saved always saved. For one thing, the word salvation means deliverance and we are told to work out our own salvation/deliverance with fear and trembling. We are born as babes in the manger (bread basket) to begin with, and with consuming the Word (bread/letter) by the light of the candlestick (Spirit/new wine) we have true communion with Him, being matured and transformed by the renewing of our minds.
It's not a one time does it all experience, it's a PROCESS. Peace
It's not a one time does it all experience, it's a PROCESS. Peace
False Prophet
New member
23 “The kingdom of heaven is like a king who decided to collect the money his servants owed him. 24 When the king began to collect his money, a servant who owed him several million dollars was brought to him. 25 But the servant did not have enough money to pay his master, the king. So the master ordered that everything the servant owned should be sold, even the servant’s wife and children. Then the money would be used to pay the king what the servant owed.
26 “But the servant fell on his knees and begged, ‘Be patient with me, and I will pay you everything I owe.’ 27 The master felt sorry for his servant and told him he did not have to pay it back. Then he let the servant go free.
28 “Later, that same servant found another servant who owed him a few dollars. The servant grabbed him around the neck and said, ‘Pay me the money you owe me!’
29 “The other servant fell on his knees and begged him, ‘Be patient with me, and I will pay you everything I owe.’
30 “But the first servant refused to be patient. He threw the other servant into prison until he could pay everything he owed. 31 When the other servants saw what had happened, they were very sorry. So they went and told their master all that had happened.
32 “Then the master called his servant in and said, ‘You evil servant! Because you begged me to forget what you owed, I told you that you did not have to pay anything. 33 You should have showed mercy to that other servant, just as I showed mercy to you.’ 34 The master was very angry and put the servant in prison to be punished until he could pay everything he owed. Matt 18
The master is Jesus Christ. God forgave us such a debt that we could not possibly pay back. Should we not forgive our fellow man for much less of what they done to us. The servant went out and put his fellow man into prison for not paying him back his debt, so Jesus did to the servant. Does this tell us that we are saved once and always by a prayer?
It seems that the sophists around here might be wrong about some things. Just because the sophists gang up on those that oppose their teachings, does it make these teachings correct?
35 “This king did what my heavenly Father will do to you if you do not forgive your brother or sister from your heart.” NCV
This sounds like a promise, and it is. If you do not forgive your brother who sins against you, then neither will your father in heaven forgive you!
26 “But the servant fell on his knees and begged, ‘Be patient with me, and I will pay you everything I owe.’ 27 The master felt sorry for his servant and told him he did not have to pay it back. Then he let the servant go free.
28 “Later, that same servant found another servant who owed him a few dollars. The servant grabbed him around the neck and said, ‘Pay me the money you owe me!’
29 “The other servant fell on his knees and begged him, ‘Be patient with me, and I will pay you everything I owe.’
30 “But the first servant refused to be patient. He threw the other servant into prison until he could pay everything he owed. 31 When the other servants saw what had happened, they were very sorry. So they went and told their master all that had happened.
32 “Then the master called his servant in and said, ‘You evil servant! Because you begged me to forget what you owed, I told you that you did not have to pay anything. 33 You should have showed mercy to that other servant, just as I showed mercy to you.’ 34 The master was very angry and put the servant in prison to be punished until he could pay everything he owed. Matt 18
The master is Jesus Christ. God forgave us such a debt that we could not possibly pay back. Should we not forgive our fellow man for much less of what they done to us. The servant went out and put his fellow man into prison for not paying him back his debt, so Jesus did to the servant. Does this tell us that we are saved once and always by a prayer?
It seems that the sophists around here might be wrong about some things. Just because the sophists gang up on those that oppose their teachings, does it make these teachings correct?
35 “This king did what my heavenly Father will do to you if you do not forgive your brother or sister from your heart.” NCV
This sounds like a promise, and it is. If you do not forgive your brother who sins against you, then neither will your father in heaven forgive you!
There is too much evidence for Eternal Security to not believe. Who can take your salvation away from you. Who is stronger than the God who sealed you?
Ben Masada
New member
1 - Saved from all kinds of troubles in life. That's it. If you keep the laws, you are saved from all kinds of trouble. There are three kinds of laws. The Law of Yahweh; the law of the land; and the law of cause & effect.
2 - Since every thing is conditional, also the promises of Yahweh are conditional on the obedience of His laws. Now, if you read Jeremiah 31:35-37, as long as Israel remain as a People before the Lord "forever," the People would be saved from all kinds of troubles. But many times, Israel would turn away from the Lord and would not repent. Hence the exiles for a definite time. When the time was over, Israel would be back to the Lord and restored to their previous condition of Jer. 31:35-37. Only Ephraim aka the Ten Tribes never returned; except for about 10% that escaped Assyria and joined Judah in the South. But Judah, the new Israel was confirmed to remain as God's People before the Lord "forever." (Psa. 78:67-70)
Thanks for your point. I can see I didn't say enough. We are saved in a process, spirit, soul and finally body. The spirit is saved regardless, it goes back to the One that sent it. So in that sense it's true.
My point is, there is more to it, than that initial salvation of the spirit experience. Many have that experience, think that's all they have to do and sit on a church pew waiting to go to heaven for the next 40 years and there is no spiritual growth. Peace
Wick Stick
Well-known member
Way to take what I said, discard it, and substitute something else entirely in its place. But really, why reason with anybody when you can simply stuff them into one of a few predefined categories and dismiss them as part of "all that!"heir said:
It seems you're not trolling on purpose. You just don't understand very much, and, if we're honest, don't want to understand very much. Keep it simple, amirite?heir said:
Well, since you are one of those who simply re-states what you believe in response to anything and everything, rather than actually dialoguing, I believe I'll leave off talking at you.
Buh-bye!
Ben Masada
New member
Well RBBI, I agree with you as long as you had in mind personal salvation when you wrote this post. Universal salvation is something else; you don't have to work for it. It's free.
Salvation is not free. It cost God his one and only son. Hint: There is no such thing as universal salvation
iouae
Well-known member
1) Good. You agree with Jesus that the Law should be kept. "I have not come to destroy the law but to fulfil it"
2) You should not rule out believing in the greatest Jew who ever lived.
3) Keeping the law = good. To the exclusion of need for Messiah = bad.
4) Good. God, you and I all agree animal sacrifices = bad.
5) I was wrong, you correct. I forgot that "the wages of sin is death" is a NT concept.
6) Paul was schooled by Gamaliel and was far more attuned to Jewish thinking than Gentile. But he could reconcile the two together - a huge feat. He brought OT-lite to the Gentiles as well as belief in Christ.
7) By "7" I mean that if one wants an example of how God wants all men to live, copy Christ. He epitomises all OT and NT law keeping.
iouae
Well-known member
Mid-Acts Dispensationalism
iouae
Well-known member
Almost all Christians I have ever met believe in doing good works. We might be a bit lazy about it, but we believe in it.
I personally have never met a Christian who SAYS he can save himself by working hard enough, though I have met some who ACT that way.
I don't consider "playing a part" the same thing as salvation by works. Of course we play a part. Only folks like Beloved57 believe in being saved automatically and unconditionally.
Anyone out there believe in salvation by works?
New thread time:
Is falling away/apostatizing possible?
Is justification a one-time event?
Ben Masada
New member
1 - ...and to make sure we all did the same if you read all the 3 verses of Mat. 5:17-19. It means that "fulfilled" becomes a synonym with "confirmed."
2 - The greatest Jew who ever lived was Moses if you read Numbers 12:6,7. Even Jesus himself implied in his parable of the Richman and Lazarus that, to escape hell-fire, we must listen to "Moses" aka the Law. (Luke 16:29-31)
3 - "Bad" in the case of an individual Messiah because the individual is born, lives his span of life and dies. Are we to expect a new Messiah in every generation? Obviously not. The Messiah is not supposed to die physically but to remain as a People before the Lord forever. (Jer. 31:35-37)
4 - True. All the three of us are in tune as sacrifices are concerned.
5 - Good! That's the second time we are playing in the same tune.
6 - Since Paul has lied before, I can't believe he was schooled by Gamaliel. And he did not serve as light to the Gentiles for his whole life was among the Jews since his first station in Damascus and until his last in Rome. (Acts 9:1,2 and 28:17)
7 - Only not the "Christ" of Paul but the Yeshua ben Yoseph of Nazareth. "Christ" was not part of the name of Yeshua but a title attributed to him by Paul. (II Tim. 2:8) Hence, everywhere he preached his gospel, people would be called Christians. (Acts 11:26)
glorydaz
Well-known member
That is the same mistake the Jews made. The law was made to show men what sin is....to declare the whole world guilty. It was never intended to make men righteous by all their attempts to keep it. It was never intended to justify man before our Holy God. And it was never intended to give men life. If you preach that it should be kept for any of those things then you are using it unlawfully. It's why "law keepers" will always fail.
1 Tim. 1:7-10
Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm. But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm. But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
Open it! Should be interesting.