Once saved NOT necessarily always saved.

B

Ben Masada

New member
serpentdove said:
How are you doing with that law? :smokie: Ga 3:24, 5:3, Jas 2:10
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Which law, the one about getting married? Just fine, thank you. How was Jesus doing when he fulfilled also that commandment? I bet you, just fine too. As he said, he came to fulfill all the Law and the Prophets down to the letter. It is only obvious that he fulfilled that one too. (Mat. 5:17-19)
 
heir

heir

TOL Subscriber
iouae said:
Oh Heir, please don't "note" me :eek:

There are 1050 commands in the NT. Those should be "noted".
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Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
 
heir

heir

TOL Subscriber
iouae said:
Oh Heir, please don't "note" me :eek:

There are 1050 commands in the NT. Those should be "noted".
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Galatians 4:9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

...


Galatians 4:21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?


...

Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Galatians 5:2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.

Galatians 5:3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
heir said:
No it isn't. What a :troll: you are.No. Eternal life is the gift of God through our Lord Jesus Christ (Romans 6:23 KJV)! But like any gift, it must be received. If you push away the gift and don't accept the content of the package, it is not in your possession. You have not claimed it.

1 Corinthians 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
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Believing is something that the person does ! Now can a person Christ shed His Blood for be saved by it without the person believing ? Yes or No?
 
B

Ben Masada

New member
iouae said:
Ben

Did God anywhere in the OT promise eternal life for obeying the law or keeping the Old Covenant?

There definitely were blessings for obedience, but these were all physical ones, like saving Israel from its enemies (Deut 28)
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The opposite is rather true as He said that no one can live forever. (Gen. 3:22,23) He would not, like a man, change His mind and promise eternal life for whatever reason. (Numb. 23:19)
 
iouae

iouae

Well-known member
Virtually no Christian I know believes they are saved by the law. I don't.
Most believe we are saved by believing in Christ.

The problem in Paul's day was that the Jewish mind believed you were OK doing what the OT required. This is the battle Paul faced, to wean Jewish Christians away from the mindset that keeping the OT laws made one OK with God.

Paul HAD to convince them that the blood of sacrifices DID NOT cover sin.
This was an incredibly entrenched mindset to overcome.
Early Jewish Christians knew the wages of sin was death.

Much of Pauls arguments are directed to turning early Christians away from reliance on things like OT sacrifices, to accept the once off sacrifice of Christ.

THAT SAID, God did not abandon His attempt at making folks behave decently.
That is where the 1050 NT commands come in. They are not intended to save, but to conform us to the image of Christ. Christ personified these 1050 laws.
 
B

Ben Masada

New member
serpentdove said:
Ex. 20:1–26
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Oh! I am also doing fine for the time being about those too. Since I am a man and, upon earth there has never been one to do only good and never sinned according to Eccles. 7:20, whenever I sin, the Lord has provided me with the chance to set things right with Him so that my sins, from even scarlet red, they may become as white as snow. I have only to repent and return to the obedience of His laws. (Isa.1:18,19) That's love in process as a result of God's grace.
 
heir

heir

TOL Subscriber
iouae said:
THAT SAID, God did not abandon His attempt at making folks behave decently.
That is where the 1050 NT commands come in. They are not intended to save, but to conform us to the image of Christ. Christ personified these 1050 laws.
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The law was not given to make "folks behave decently"! The law was given to shut mouths!

Romans 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

The grace of God is our teacher, not the law!

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

Titus 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

Titus 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Titus 2:15 These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.
 
serpentdove

serpentdove

BANNED
Banned
Ben Masada said:
Oh! I am also doing fine for the time being about those too...
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That's great! Keep the law perfectly and you will go to heaven (1 Jn 1:10). :freak:

“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.

“You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.’ But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, ‘Raca!’ shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of hell fire. Therefore if you bring your gift to the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, leave your gift there before the altar, and go your way. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift. Agree with your adversary quickly, while you are on the way with him, lest your adversary deliver you to the judge, the judge hand you over to the officer, and you be thrown into prison. Assuredly, I say to you, you will by no means get out of there till you have paid the last penny.

“You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell. And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell (Mt 5:17–30).
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
heir said:
You lying :troll:

Titus 3:10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;


:wave2:
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You are the false witness and deceitful one! You made a statement that you don't believe! Now are those Christ died for saved by His Blood without them believing ?
 
iouae

iouae

Well-known member
Ben Masada said:
It depends on the kind of salvation you are talking about. There are two kinds. One is universal salvation from universal catastrophes. This kind, yes, once saved, one is always saved. And the other kind is personal salvation. To this one, "One saved, always saved" does not apply. We have to obey the Law and work on it daily to keep oneself saved.

One more word regarding the universal salvation: Soon after the Flood, Yahweh promised Noah that He would never allow another to destroy all Mankind, as long as the natural laws worked properly. (Gen. 8:21,22) Jeremiah read that text and connected it with the existence of Israel as a People before the Lord forever, as long as the natural laws worked properly. (Jer. 31:35-37) As Jesus read both references he concluded that, indeed, salvation comes from the Jews. (John 4:22)
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Please explain what you mean by "keeping oneself saved".
Saved from what?
Saved for what?
Is "saved" a word you ever normally use in a spiritual sense?

What do you understand by this..
Is 45
17 But Israel shall be saved in the Lord with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.
 
B

Ben Masada

New member
iouae said:
1 - Virtually no Christian I know believes they are saved by the law. I don't.
2 - Most believe we are saved by believing in Christ.
3 - The problem in Paul's day was that the Jewish mind believed you were OK doing what the OT required. This is the battle Paul faced, to wean Jewish Christians away from the mindset that keeping the OT laws made one OK with God.
4 - Paul HAD to convince them that the blood of sacrifices DID NOT cover sin.This was an incredibly entrenched mindset to overcome.
5 - Early Jewish Christians knew the wages of sin was death.
6 - Much of Pauls arguments are directed to turning early Christians away from reliance on things like OT sacrifices, to accept the once off sacrifice of Christ.
7 - THAT SAID, God did not abandon His attempt at making folks behave decently. That is where the 1050 NT commands come in. They are not intended to save, but to conform us to the image of Christ. Christ personified these 1050 laws.
Click to expand...

1 - The Law per se saves no one. One is saved through the obedience of the Law. That's why it was given by Yahweh on the Sinai Mount.

2 - Too easy my friend. Personal salvation does not come that ease. The universal salvation does, as long as there is a Minyan of ten Jews on earth, but not personal salvation. You have to work to get it.

3 - Jesus also believed the same. Hence, in his parable about the Richman and Lazarus, he implied that the only way to escape hell-fire was to listen to "Moses" aka the Law. (Luke 16:29-31)

4 - For that, I pay homage to Paul because, indeed, blood sacrifices never had that purpose in Israel. Prophet Jeremiah was so well-aware of it that he said, Yahweh never commanded that animal sacrifices be part of the religion of Israel. (Jer. 7:22)

5 - They were totally mistaken because even babies die without having ever committed a single sin. One dies, not because of his sins but because he was born. Death is as natural as birth.

6 - Two points here. Paul never went to the Gentiles. One or two here and there would not classify him as an apostle of the Gentiles. The other point is that the Christians he claimed to fish from the synagogues of the Jews were not Christians but Nazarenes who had converted from the Gentiles by the apostles, especially Peter. (Acts 15:7)

7 - Sorry but I don't know what you are talking about with that last paragraph.
 
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