Obeying Jesus' teachings or commands is requirement for salvation.

[God's Truth]

I think you're straining at that gnat again - this same man who one moment was ready to murder every Christian around, is the next moment ready to serve the Lord they all worship. You're telling me there hasn't been a fundamental change in Paul's heart in that moment?

Be careful how you judge because it might reveal what you are guilty of doing.

Stop straining gnats and go deeper into the Lord.

 

[God's Truth]

nikolai_42 is confused because Jesus showed mercy to Paul and appeared to him.

Paul STILL had to OBEY JESUS even after believing.

That is no gnat, and to say it is not from God.

 

[nikolai_42]

Be careful how you judge because it might reveal what you are guilty of doing.

Stop straining gnats and go deeper into the Lord.

I'm being perfectly consistent. I'm not putting obedience to God down or minimizing it. I'm merely saying that it is not the thing upon which one's salvation rests. When Paul talked about being saved, he didn't say he needed to obey before God would do anything for him. Rather, he founded it all on God :

But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
Galatians 1:15-16

Christ was revealed IN Paul. That's what he points to as the crux of it all. That's what it rests on (as well as his being separated from his mother's womb!). Yes...he tells us what he then did, but that is not what it all (ultimately) rests in.

 

[God's Truth]

What does repentance mean to you? A lot of people interpret it differently. When I was a little younger I thought it meant to pray for forgiveness. I didn't know any better at that time though. Now I consider repentance a sincere change of heart, when I use repentance in Christianity I mean to stop doing things contrary to Godly love

Repent is of the sins we are sorry for and want to stop doing.

 

[nikolai_42]

nikolai_42 is confused because Jesus showed mercy to Paul and appeared to him.

Paul STILL had to OBEY JESUS even after believing.

That is no gnat, and to say it is not from God.

And now he COULD obey Jesus.

 

[God's Truth]

I'm being perfectly consistent. I'm not putting obedience to God down or minimizing it. I'm merely saying that it is not the thing upon which one's salvation rests.

Then you are badly mistaken not knowing God or the scriptures.

When Paul talked about being saved, he didn't say he needed to obey before God would do anything for him. Rather, he founded it all on God :

Acts 9:5 "Who are you, Lord?" Saul asked. "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting," he replied.

6 but get up and enter the city, and it will be told you what you must do."…


JESUS TOLD PAUL WHAT HE MUST DO.

But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
Galatians 1:15-16

Christ was revealed IN Paul. That's what he points to as the crux of it all. That's what it rests on (as well as his being separated from his mother's womb!). Yes...he tells us what he then did, but that is not what it all rests in.

Just because Jesus knew Paul would obey does not mean Jesus made Paul obey, and it certainly does NOT diminish the need to obey.

 

[God's Truth]

And now he COULD obey Jesus.

Paul still had to obey on his own.

Just as we all have to do.

 

[God's Truth]

Obedience actually has no effect on our sins.

Obedience has everything to do with washing away our sins and having the Spirit, and life.


Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life.

You have to obey Jesus to have life.

Do you need the scripture references?

 

[nikolai_42]

Then you are badly mistaken not knowing God or the scriptures.




Acts 9:5 "Who are you, Lord?" Saul asked. "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting," he replied.

6 but get up and enter the city, and it will be told you what you must do."…


JESUS TOLD PAUL WHAT HE MUST DO.



Just because Jesus knew Paul would obey does not mean Jesus made Paul obey, and it certainly does NOT diminish the need to obey.

When Paul defends what his salvation rests in, it is not in his own obedience - it is in the Lord's being revealed in him. He was changed - fundamentally transformed. If that is not the foundation of our salvation, then we have whereof to boast. If it is our obedience upon which our salvation rests (which is not the same thing as the working out of it - that is our obedience), then we might be praying something similar to the Pharisee's prayer in Luke 18 - or at least in the same spirit - because God's salvation couldn't come to us unless we did something.

Paul's obedience after his encounter with the Lord only serves to justify the Lord's work in him. It shows the change of mind, heart and spirit that took place.

Look at it in modern terms. Take the most self-justified abortion doctor who thinks he's doing the world a service by killing unwanted babies. Now, on the way to another abortion, he decides to stop his practice, shut it down and protest against other abortion providers. Was that change of heart a rational operation that then allowed the Lord to show him what to do or rather the work of God to instantaneously change him so that he knew what he was doing was wicked?

 

[nikolai_42]

Paul still had to obey on his own.

Just as we all have to do.

But the root of his obedience is not...his own obedience. It's a change of heart wrought by God.

 

[Aimiel]

Obedience has everything to do with washing away our sins and having the Spirit, and life.

Then grace is no more grace... you're talking about work-based salvation.

 

[nikolai_42]

When Paul defends what his salvation rests in, it is not in his own obedience - it is in the Lord's being revealed in him. He was changed - fundamentally transformed. If that is not the foundation of our salvation, then we have whereof to boast. If it is our obedience upon which our salvation rests (which is not the same thing as the working out of it - that is our obedience), then we might be praying something similar to the Pharisee's prayer in Luke 18 - or at least in the same spirit - because God's salvation couldn't come to us unless we did something.

Paul's obedience after his encounter with the Lord only serves to justify the Lord's work in him. It shows the change of mind, heart and spirit that took place.

Look at it in modern terms. Take the most self-justified abortion doctor who thinks he's doing the world a service by killing unwanted babies. Now, on the way to another abortion, he decides to stop his practice, shut it down and protest against other abortion providers. Was that change of heart a rational operation that then allowed the Lord to show him what to do or rather the work of God to instantaneously change him so that he knew what he was doing was wicked?

Or what about a much closer parallel found in real life - the modern day slave trader John Newton?

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

JESUS TOLD PAUL WHAT HE MUST DO.

Yep, be baptized and call upon his name.

That was it, period.


Psalm 116:17 KJV


17 I will offer to thee the sacrifice of thanksgiving, and will call upon the name of the LORD.



Isaiah 12:4 KJV


4 And in that day shall ye say , Praise the LORD, call upon his name, declare his doings among the people, make mention that his name is exalted .



Joel 2:32 KJV


32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered : for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said , and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call .


Acts 2:21 KJV


21 And it shall come to pass , that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved .

 

[God's Truth]

Then grace is no more grace... you're talking about work-based salvation.

We do not have to do these works:

The Burnt Offering; The Grain Offering; The Fellowship Offering; The Sin Offering; The Guilt Offering; Dietary Laws; Purification After Childbirth; Cleansing From Infectious Skin Diseases; Cleansing From Mildew; Discharges Causing Uncleanness; The Day of Atonement; Rules for Priests; The Sabbath; Firstfruits; The Passover and Unleavened Bread; Feast of Weeks; Feast of Trumpets; Feast of Tabernacles; Oil and Bread Set Before The LORD; the Sabbath Year; The Year of Jubilee; Circumcision.


It means if you sat where your mom, sister, girlfriend or wife sat during her menses, you do not have to sacrifice an animal to be made clean just to go to the temple to worship God. It does NOT mean you no longer have to obey God.

 

[aikido7]

1. John 14:15
◦New King James Version
“If you love Me, keep My commandments.

2. John 14:21
◦New King James Version
He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.”

3. John 15:10
◦New King James Version
If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

4. 1 John 2:3
◦New King James Version
The Test of Knowing Him ] Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.

5. 1 John 2:4
◦New King James Version
He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

6. 1 John 3:22
◦New King James Version
And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight.

7. 1 John 3:24
◦New King James Version
The Spirit of Truth and the Spirit of Error ] Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

8. 1 John 5:2
◦New King James Version
By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments.

9. 1 John 5:3
◦New King James Version
For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

10. Revelation 12:17
◦New King James Version
And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

11. Revelation 14:12
◦New King James Version
Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.


And here is confirmation from Jesus of keeping Ten commandments as requirement.

Matthew 19:16-19
New International Version (NIV)
16 Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?” 17 “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”
18 “Which ones?” he inquired.
Jesus replied, “‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, 19 honor your father and mother,’[a] and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’

Matthew 3:10
And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Following Jesus is too disturbing for traditional Christians--even though it was said he spoke with authority.

They would rather give their assent to a list of medieval theological statements like "born of a virgin" or "savior of the world" and other exalted titles. That is all that is required for the arrogant "Cwistians."

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

Following Jesus is too disturbing for traditional Christians--even though it was said he spoke with authority.

They would rather give their assent to a list of medieval theological statements like "born of a virgin" or "savior of the world" and other exalted titles. That is all that is required for the arrogant "Cwistians."

Many are choked with the cares of this life.:thumb:

 

[God's Truth]

Following Jesus is too disturbing for traditional Christians--even though it was said he spoke with authority.

They would rather give their assent to a list of medieval theological statements like "born of a virgin" or "savior of the world" and other exalted titles. That is all that is required for the arrogant "Cwistians."

Jesus was born of a virgin. He is the Savior of the world.

 

[God's Truth]

When Paul defends what his salvation rests in, it is not in his own obedience - it is in the Lord's being revealed in him. He was changed - fundamentally transformed. If that is not the foundation of our salvation, then we have whereof to boast. If it is our obedience upon which our salvation rests (which is not the same thing as the working out of it - that is our obedience), then we might be praying something similar to the Pharisee's prayer in Luke 18 - or at least in the same spirit - because God's salvation couldn't come to us unless we did something.

We are not to boast in the ceremonial WORKS OF THE OLD LAW.

Paul did boast in his obedience, and we can boast in our obedience.



Paul says he wants us to boast in each other.

For we do not write you anything you cannot read or understand. And I hope that, as you have understood us in part, you will come to understand fully that you can boast of us just as we will boast of you in the day of the Lord Jesus. See 2 Corinthians 1:13,14.

Paul shows us we can boast in ourselves.

2 Corinthians 1:12 Now this is our boast: Our conscience testifies that we have conducted ourselves in the world, and especially in our relations with you, with integrity and godly sincerity. We have done so, relying not on worldly wisdom but on God's grace.


2 Corinthians 7:14 had boasted to him about you, and you have not embarrassed me. But just as everything we said to you was true, so our boasting about you to Titus has proved to be true as well.


1 Thessalonians 2:10
You are witnesses, and so is God, of how holy, righteous and blameless we were among you who believed.


2 Corinthians 12:6
Even if I should choose to boast, I would not be a fool, because I would be speaking the truth.


Acts 23:1
Paul looked straight at the Sanhedrin and said, "My brothers, I have fulfilled my duty to God in all good conscience to this day."


1 Corinthians 9:15 But I have not used any of these rights. And I am not writing this in the hope that you will do such things for me, for I would rather die than allow anyone to deprive me of this boast.

Paul's obedience after his encounter with the Lord only serves to justify the Lord's work in him. It shows the change of mind, heart and spirit that took place.

Look at it in modern terms. Take the most self-justified abortion doctor who thinks he's doing the world a service by killing unwanted babies. Now, on the way to another abortion, he decides to stop his practice, shut it down and protest against other abortion providers. Was that change of heart a rational operation that then allowed the Lord to show him what to do or rather the work of God to instantaneously change him so that he knew what he was doing was wicked?

You are speaking of things that are NOT in the Bible. You are speaking things not from God, but are the words of the imagination of men.

God does not make us obey supernaturally.

Faith is from God, from reading His powerful message, the Bible, the New Testament. It has the powerful message that saves. We do not get faith supernaturally, as many teach, but we get faith in a very human way, from reading the supernatural message!

Where does our faith come from? Our faith comes from HEARING the word, see Romans 10:17. From hearing the word and being TAUGHT, Colossians 1:5, 7. From continuing in what we have been CONVINCED of, see 2 Timothy 3:14, and being PERSUADED,

 

[God's Truth]

But the root of his obedience is not...his own obedience. It's a change of heart wrought by God.

You just cannot let go of the teachings of men.

Obeying God's word changes our heart.

God does not change our heart supernaturally.

If God changes hearts supernaturally, then NO ONE WOULD BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR SINS!

 

[God's Truth]

How does obedience wash away our sins?

By confessing and repenting of our sins and believing that Jesus' blood washes them away.

Say I stole an apple from a vendor. But from henceforth I will by no means sin! My obedience actually didn't wash away that sin. It's still there. I actually have to be put to death still even if I only had that one sin and lived perfectly the rest of my life.

It is not what others think of you, it is what God thinks of you!

It is about eternal life.

It is about what is Spiritual.

In the bible only blood can wash away sin. Hebrews 9:22

Jesus washed away sin once and for all 2000 years ago. You werent there, but your sins were included at that time too, and it was washed away. 1 John 2:2

No one enters that GRACE unless they confess and repent of THEIR OWN SINS.