Originally posted by wickwoman I'm not so sure I believe in free will at all. We are all so caught up in the circumstances of our lives. And, the decisions we make are what we believe is right at the time, based on what we've learned from our circumstances. And if we can't choose the circumstances into which we are born, what can we choose?
As much as I whale on the fundies around here, I was one myself for 20 years or more and the point is, it was all I knew. It was the best I could do. Later, things changed, but only because I was ready to change, based on certain life altering events over which I had no real control.
Our free will is limited, but within those limitations we are free to choose for ourselves. I may not be free to choose to levitate at this moment, but I am free to choose whether to sit, stand, walk, or run.
I agree that we're only as free as we are able to see alternative possibilities, but even as a fundi, you were always free to see alternative possibilities, and there were many of them - you had just chosen to believe that ALL other possible views were wrong, as this is what the people who loved you were telling you, and to challenge this idea would mean going against them. But all that means is that your other choices were difficult, not that you didn't have them.
Originally posted by wickwoman I'm not sure what you mean by connecting God's personality to life's circumstances. Are you talking about those who say God is paying everyone back for the evil they do by punishing them with disease and unhappy circumstances? I do know people who think like this. That every little thing that happens is a result of God's intervention. I haven't gotten them to explain what God has against starving Ethiopian children yet, but they're working on it.
Yes - the "virgins in the volcano" view of existence. Superstition is the belief that natural phenomena is the result of gods or spirits expressing their personalities through physical conditions, and that humans can in turn effect the "mood" of these gods and spirits through a physical response. The "fire god" is angry and so is making the volcano rain down fire, but we can appease his anger by giving him a virgin.
Christianity has never really let go of the idea that life's difficulties are the result of God's mood toward us and that we can in turn effect God's mood by doing what God wants of us. The old testament is full of this, and even though the new testament tries to put an end to this kind of manipulative superstition, it never really succeeds. The "editors" were religionists, and they just couldn't resist holding on to the use of superstition to maintain their power and control over people. Religious leaders can never really let go of this kind of superstition because it works so well for them as a tool of manipulation. That's why they teach that what God wants most is that you believe in their religion. That's always rule #1, of course, because that puts them (as the perveyors of that religion) in charge. Then once they threaten you into accepting their view of God as God's will for you to believe, they can use their view of God to keep you doing what they want.
For most people religion is all about control and manipulation. Some people really want to be controlled, and to be told what to think and what to do all the time because they don't trust themselves to do these things on their own. Other people really want to tell other people what to think and what to do all the time because they think the view of reality in their minds is reality itself, and they keep wanting to "correct it" according to their own will. These folks find each other through the naturally manipulative phenomena of human fear and superstition and become mutually dependent upon each other. Most people want to imagine that they can control their fate because they're frightened by the idea that they are not in control of their own fate, so they call fate "God" and pretend that they can control this "God" by giving him a personality that they can appease through some declaration or behavior or sacrifice or whatever. And this becomes their religion. This becomes their life. This is their "relationship with God".
Originally posted by wickwoman Superstitions are somewhat comforting. For instance, I really like to think that the full moon has some special power. I admit it's unscientific. Just this morning when I was looking at the moon stationed so beautifully over the lake, it was a golden color and so bright, it was fun to think that it would affect me in some positive way.
The key, though, is that you are aware that these thoughts are superstitious, and are not founded on objective evidence. Human beings are naturally superstitious, and it can be a wonderful gift when we use it to inspire metaphor, and illuminate natural beauty, and help us find values that we might otherwise miss. But when we forget that it is superstition, we can become slaves to our own over-active imaginations, and we can lose our grasp of objective reality all together.
I'm not sure what you mean by connecting God's personality to life's circumstances. Are you talking about those who say God is paying everyone back for the evil they do by punishing them with disease and unhappy circumstances? I do know people who think like this. That every little thing that happens is a result of God's intervention. I haven't gotten them to explain what God has against starving Ethiopian children yet, but they're working on it. 
