No Longer A Christian
- Thread starter Granite
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Zakath
Resident Atheist
Nope.
Yes you did.
You wrote the following:
The Bible states:
I would assume you are not presuming to directly contradict scripture, so you must be asserting that human will is more powerful than your god's will.
[Inigo Montoya voice on...]
"That word, you keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."
[Inigo Montoya voice off...]
The god you describe is not all powerful by any standard definition of the word.
Ecumenicist
New member
Only if someone is predestined to do so...
wickwoman
New member
:chuckle:
That would be me:
Fundamentalist Thinking on Free Will in a Nutshell
God created perfect because he is perfect.
Adam screwed up because Adam had free will
Just because Adam had the chance to do the right thing and did the wrong thing doesn’t mean he wasn’t perfect, he just made bad choices.
Though God says he wants everyone to be saved and has the power to do it, he wouldn’t usurp our free will by making us go to Heaven, that would be a violation of our freedom of choice!
Basically, because God is so wonderful, we have the free choice to burn for eternity if we choose not to love him back. Isn’t he GREAT?!
erethnereh
New member
Just because the kingdom of God *may* be within does not mean that we are the kingdom of God or that we are God.
Ecumenicist
New member
Except for the "burn for eternity" part, sounds right to me.
I think that's a metaphore for seperation from God, redeemable
until the last judgement. At that time, those of us who still reject
God are simply put out of our misery, for that is the only
humane thing to do for someone who chooses misery in
seperation from God.
djm
Ecumenicist
New member
Originally posted by Zakath
You forgot the part about being YHWH's slaves for eternity, too...
Are the sheep in the fold the slaves, or the ones outside
the fold who are unprotected from the wolves, and therefore
slave to the whims of the wolves?
djm
brother Willi
New member
we are to be good slaves.
i know it will be said.
"we dont need to be slaves, we got "GOT GUNSâ„¢" "
but we are taught to be good slaaaves, that means a master.
we live by mans law here in fleeeeeshhhh.
Mr. Coffee
New member
When we're talking about the meaning of life, our language will never attain to the precision of a geometric proof. This is the only thing that's "elusive" and it brings no shame to religion or philosophy. In the Bible, we've been told enough so as to be responsible for what we know. This is what makes the hypocrisy charge against pseudo-Christians stick, so look on the bright side.
If I did nothing but post quotes, it wouldn't make any difference. (I posted the Miller quote because I think it fits in nicely with the flow of the discussion). In any event, we're just talking about information. It's only a question of whether it's factually true and logically sound. Your question is an ad hominem tactic, and it's not a legitimate debate strategy. Neither is calling something "codswollop" without bringing anything else to the table. I am talking about the standard rules of argument that are taught in critical thinking courses.
I called you on making a bare assertion (as if something is true simply because you say it is) and I got this little nugget back:
URLs are fine. That's better than just posting a pop-up ad for Google.What kind of information would you like? Some URLs to refutations of biblical inerrancy?
It might be faster if you just used "Google" and looked it up yourself.
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:zakath:-
Free will is God's will. So it does not override His will. He [God] createsd us with free will, so that we had the freedom to actually choose Him, rather than be "brainless walking muppet dolls."* But tha freedom does come with a price, and that price is that some may not choose Him. He knew that from the beginning, but He loved us so much that He was willing to pay that price in order to get what He wanted, for us to genuinely love Him. For His desire that we are able to make the choice, instead of being forced into it, overrides His desire that we all spend eternity with Him.
*-Lifehouse
'Cling and Clatter'
No Name Face
Free will is God's will. So it does not override His will. He [God] createsd us with free will, so that we had the freedom to actually choose Him, rather than be "brainless walking muppet dolls."* But tha freedom does come with a price, and that price is that some may not choose Him. He knew that from the beginning, but He loved us so much that He was willing to pay that price in order to get what He wanted, for us to genuinely love Him. For His desire that we are able to make the choice, instead of being forced into it, overrides His desire that we all spend eternity with Him.
*-Lifehouse
'Cling and Clatter'
No Name Face
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PureX
Well-known member
....A "gift" that isn't really a gift at all, but a threat. To me this has always been the point where religion left God and struck out on it's own ugly and manipulative path.
I agree that our own free will is responsible for some of our suffering. But I don't agree that free will is responsible for it all. Accidents and disease are not the result of free will, yet they cause is a lot of suffering. And any claim that accidents and disease are divine punishments or lessons is just plain silly. Even the bible denies this.
I think the big mistake that religion makes is that it never really lets go of it's paganist superstitions. It imagines that life's circumstances are an expression of God's personality. This is the very definition of superstition. And once religion starts down this road, it has to begin making up excuses for why bad things happen to good people, and why a "good" God would let them. Whereas if we could eliminate the superstition, and it's connecting God's "personality" to life's circumstances, we could begin to be more realistic in our ideas about life's suffering.
But most religions don't want to give up their superstitions. It's their most powerful tool when it comes to enforcing their will and manipulating their participants. It's what holds them together. Without the threat and attraction of divine retribution they have little to offer anyone, or so they believe.
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