NFL 2015

[tetelestai]

Sorry, but I'm just not buying into Peyton being the only good player on a bad team.

Peyton has been surrounded by Pro Bowlers, but has still choked in the post-season.

Peyton has had the following ProBowl teammates:

Marvin Harrison (8X)
Dwight Freeney (7X)
Jeff Saturday (5X)
Reggie Wayne (6X)
Robert Mathis (5X)
Bob Sanders (2X)
Edgerrin James (4X)
Dallas Clark (1X)
Tarik Glen (3X)
Antoine Bethea (2X)
Joseph Addai (1X)
Cato June (1X)
Ken Dilger (1X)
Mike Vanderjagt (1X)
Champ Bailey (8X)
Ryan Clady (4X)
Von Miller (4X)
Elvis Dumervil (3X)
Louis Vasquez (1X)
Demaryius Thomas (3X)
Julius Thomas (2X)
Matt Prater (1X)
CJ Anderson (1X)
TJ Ward (1X)
Chris Harris (1X)
Emmanuel Sanders (1X)
Zane Beadles (1X)
DeMarcus Ware (1X)
Aquib Talib (1X)

Total Pro Bowl Appearances: 80

Let's compare the ProBowl teammates Ben Roethlisberger has had:

Alan Faneca (7X)
Troy Polamalu (8X)
James Harrison (5X)
Maurkice Pouncey (4X)
Jerome Bettis (4X)
Joey Porter (3X)
Antonio Brown (3X)
Casey Hampton (5X)
James Farrior (2X)
Jeff Hartings (2X)
Hines Ward (4X)
Heath Miller (2X)
Willie Parker (2X)
Marvel Smith (1X)
Ryan Clark (1X)
Aaron Smith (1X)
Mike Wallace (1X)
Lawerence Timmons (1X)
Brett Kiesel (1X)

Total Pro Bowl Appearances 57

ONE-AND-DONES:

Peyton Manning - 9
Ben Roethlisberger - 3

 

[tetelestai]

And another thing:

Who can name the Steelers GM?

With all the coaches and GM's being fired, the Steelers do things different than other teams.

Kevin Colbert, the Steelers GM, reports directly to the Rooney's, who are the owners.

Mike Tomlin, the head coach, reports directly to the Rooney's.

Kevin Colbert has no authority over Mike Tomlin.

Kevin Colbert is in essence, in charge of player personnel, and has nothing to do with the coaches.

In recent years, high profile coaches like Bill Parcels, and others have tried to be head coach and GM. Every time this has been tried, it has been a train wreck.

Never more than what happened with Chip Kelly.

Nor have former head coaches made good GM's (see Cleveland-Mike Holgrem)

I bring this up because Cleveland's owner said he is going to hire a head coach before he hires a GM.

I actually think this is a good move, and since Cleveland's owner is from Pittsburgh, I think he's going to try and pattern the Brown's front office after the Steeler's front office.

 

[Nick M]

Did you notice the Colts went 11-5 the next year with a rookie QB?

Yes. The second greatest QB to come from College in my lifetime after Elway. Are you using this to claim the Colts don't suck? They are as bad as the Browns in terms of being a franchise. Kroenke is doing it on purpose. Letting Jeff Fisher lose without accountability. Where as Lerner/Haslam is just flat incompetent. And the Colts are worse with the biggest jerk and most incompetent owner in sports. You know that is true.

 

[Nick M]

After someone blew up a lot of what ailed them and the rookie in question was one touted as the best to enter the league since Elway?

I guess I could have read your reply first. lain: Next time.

 

[Town Heretic]

Sorry, but I'm just not buying into Peyton being the only good player on a bad team.

No one said Peyton was the only good player on bad teams. He was an all time great on, for most of his career, wildly uneven teams, which is why they looked awful without him and why management blew up the team, from coaches to a huge part of the roster. Doing that and coupled with the previously noted Luck, they managed to look good again in an uneven division.

I've rebutted your choking claim prior, using the metric utilized by the NFL to speak to post season position play.

Peyton has had the following ProBowl teammates:

Over the course of a long career and given the above, of course. But no one has every argued that any of his teams carried him to a SB or could.

Let's compare the ProBowl teammates Ben Roethlisberger

Rather, let's recognize that the team Ben had did take him to his first Super Bowl and won it despite his poor play.

It's mostly about defense.

Here's how many points the Pats gave up in their SB years:

2001: 272 W
2003: 238 W
2004: 260 W
2007: 274 L
2011: 332 L
2014: 313 W

Six of those years and almost every SB year they had a defense holding opponents collectively in the 200s. Averaged 257 during the years of those three wins that established their dynasty.

Here's the Steelers SB seasons:

2005: 258 W
2008: 223 W
2010: 232 L

With Big Ben, during the SB years, their six best seasons producing three SB appearances, they had defenses in the 200s for five of them.


In Peyton's thirteen seasons starting with Indy they fielded a defense that was capable of holding teams in the 200 range 3 times, with one of those barely qualifying at 298.

The year they won the Super Bowl the defense was actually among the poorer in the league, but played better going into the playoffs and did enough when it counted.

The average defense Peyton played with gave up 342 points a year. The worst year they gave up, 486.

 

[Nick M]

Subjective awards don't mean very much. 24-6 to 2-14.

 

[Granite]

TH, I call on you to categorically deny once and for all that you're Cooper Manning, a member of the Manning family (by blood or marriage), or personally acquainted with Peyton.

Joking.

Kinda.

 

[tetelestai]

Subjective awards don't mean very much. 24-6 to 2-14.

First off, your stats are wrong. The Colts were 10-6 the last year Manning played, and 14-2 the year before. That makes 24-8, not 24-6.

Secondly, they replaced Manning with retired, 39 year old Kerry Collins. When that didn't work, they replaced Collins with Curtis Painter, a 6th round draft pick. When that didn't work, they replaced Painter with Dan Orlovsky, a 5th round draft pick.

Not too many teams would have won more than 2 games with Collins, Painter, and Orlovsky at QB.

Your stats are also misleading, the Colts went from 10-6 with Manning to 2-14 without him. That's an 8 game difference.

The Colts lost 7 of those games by a touchdown or less.

 

[tetelestai]

TH, I call on you to categorically deny once and for all that you're Cooper Manning, a member of the Manning family (by blood or marriage), or personally acquainted with Peyton.

Joking.

Kinda.

:rotfl:

Come to think of it, TH and Peyton are from the same neck of the woods. :think:

 

[Town Heretic]

TH, I call on you to categorically deny once and for all that you're Cooper Manning, a member of the Manning family (by blood or marriage), or personally acquainted with Peyton.

Joking.

Kinda.

Just familiar with him. Rooted against him in his college days then he went to my pro team. I was happy to see him there but really had no idea he'd be as good a pro as he turned out to be. Like most people at the time I bought into the "most ready/least upside" of the qb crop. Looked forward to a productive, smart leader who'd help the rest. I knew he had average arm strength and limited mobility. Not the recipe you tend to bring to mind for a great one.

Surprise. But when it comes to playoff victories it really does come down to complete team play, with emphasis on the defense. With rare exception, that's what brings home the trophy. That's why it's no real surprise about the 200s and the impact I noted. Three out of four in the 200s for New England SB appearances. Two out of three wins in the 200s for the Steelers.

 

[tetelestai]

That's why it's no real surprise about the 200s and the impact I noted. Three out of four in the 200s for New England SB appearances. Two out of three wins in the 200s for the Steelers.

Using your theory, here are the stats for this year's playoff teams:

277 - Seahawks
279 - Bengals
287 - Chiefs
296 - Broncos
302 - Vikings
308 - Panthers
313 - Texans & Cardinals
315 - Patriots
319 - Steelers
323 - Packers
379 - Redskins

 

[tetelestai]

BTW,

The 2000 Ravens have the record for fewest points given up in a season with 165.

The 1977 Atlanta Falcons have the record for a 14 game season with 129 points. (and somehow managed to not have a winning record)

 

[Town Heretic]

Using your theory, here are the stats for this year's playoff teams:

It isn't a theory. It's an illustration of a historical fact, though offenses have trended up and the threshold with them thanks to alterations in the rules and enforcement favoring offensive output.

What I'd say is that when you win two out of three and three out of four with that going you've got a strong indicator for success.

277 - Seahawks...

Right. Until you get to the Steelers, Packers and Redskins it's tightly packed. The Bengals might have a differential problem, because that's what's going to separate when it's close and we don't know if AJ can keep the ratios of play that established that advantage. We'll see.

Here's another way to look at it.

Thirteen out of fourteen playoff teams have the best defenses in the league.

Only the Jets (9th) miss out and only Washington manages to sneak in with a worse defensive posture, mostly because a slightly better Cowboys defense has a noticeably worse (differential) offense.

On the offensive side? The 6th best Giants aren't playoff bound. Neither are the 8th best Saints. The Jets, Bills, Eagles and Jaguars all had more productive offenses than playoff bound Minnesota and Green Bay.

So defense is, again, a better indicator of success. Thereafter, it's differential.

 

[tetelestai]

Until you get to the Steelers, Packers and Redskins it's tightly packed.

Which is why I have just about no hope at all for the Steelers to do much this post-season.

I don't know how far they can make it with the defense they have.

ESPN, and just about every other sports person is going on and on about how the Steelers and Seahawks are the teams no one wants to play, and how they are the teams to watch out for.

The Seahawks I agree with, because of their defense.

The Steelers aren't going to do squat with the defense they have. The Steeler's defense is embarrassing. It's horrible.

They'll make AJ McCarron look like Tom Brady this week.

However, with Roethlisberger and Brown, the Steelers can keep up, but the offense has to play almost perfect to win. Asking an offense to play perfect for three road games is too much.

 

[Nick M]

First off, your stats are wrong. The Colts were 10-6 the last year Manning played, and 14-2 the year before. That makes 24-8, not 24-6.

Cause that changes everything.

 

[Nick M]

That team (the Browns) fired their GM and head coach before the stadium lights went out yesterday.

While looking up a picture in Republicanchicks newest thread this hour on low information voters, I found one of the problems in Cleveland. People.

 

[Nick M]

Obama and those idiots can't spell, incase somebody doesn't get the gaffe.

 

[Granite]

Obama and those idiots can't spell, incase somebody doesn't get the gaffe.

Pretty sure nobody cares.:chuckle:

 

[Town Heretic]

Which is why I have just about no hope at all for the Steelers to do much this post-season.

If you had your running game going (the injury bug has really beaten your team more often than opponents this year) I'd say there's a punchers chance to balance an attack and keep the other guy's D on the field. The very best defenses here have question marks elsewhere that play to that differential. Will AJ perform sufficiently? Who is under center for Denver and how will they play? Is Seattle going to show the surge or falter as they have against SL? Any team with one solid thing going for it has questions elsewhere. If the Pats were healthy and the line was playing better...that sort of thing.

ESPN, and just about every other sports person is going on and on about how the Steelers and Seahawks are the teams no one wants to play, and how they are the teams to watch out for.

The Seahawks I agree with, because of their defense.

But you never know. Eight games giving up three tds or better.

The Steelers aren't going to do squat with the defense they have. The Steeler's defense is embarrassing. It's horrible.

They'll make AJ McCarron look like Tom Brady this week.

But on the whole they've played slightly above average in terms of points allowed, giving up about 3 fewer points than that average.

Of course, only Washington has managed worse among the playoff teams. Green Bay is nearly even on average, though just below.

However, with Roethlisberger and Brown, the Steelers can keep up, but the offense has to play almost perfect to win. Asking an offense to play perfect for three road games is too much.

You've got a good chance against the Bengals. Who knows how it all shakes out? You're in it until you aren't. lain: It was the best I could manage. You're nearly doomed, but that's why they...I'm going to stop now.

 

[Granite]

Anybody wanna touch the Peyton HGH story, or are we just not going there?:noid: