Myself and Welfare

[JudgeRightly]

There are many people who don't have family and friends where that kind of sustainability could come about.

You seem to love ignoring portions of my argument and then claiming that my argument is unreasonable.

Here's what I ACTUALLY said:

... instead of relying on family, friends, and neighbors.

...

... instead of seeking help from family, friends, and neighbors.

...

... more unwilling to help their neighbor.

...

... I would hope that family, friends, or neighbors would come to my aid if I asked them to.

...

... instead of turning to their family or friends or neighbors for help, turn to the government.

...

... which makes it easier to avoid relying on family, friends, and neighbors for help.

So how about it, Artie, do people have NEIGHBORS to help them?

The only help they could realistically get would be through governmental aid of some sort.

... instead of relying on family, friends, and neighbors.

...

... instead of seeking help from family, friends, and neighbors.

...

... more unwilling to help their neighbor.

...

... I would hope that family, friends, or neighbors would come to my aid if I asked them to.

...

... instead of turning to their family or friends or neighbors for help, turn to the government.

...

... which makes it easier to avoid relying on family, friends, and neighbors for help.

Do people live out in the middle of nowheresville or something according to you?

Because last I checked, most people have a neighbor or two...

There's also plenty on welfare/benefits who aren't just sitting around doing nothing to find work but making the effort in the interim

Good for them! :thumb:

and who have paid into the very system that avails them when they're out of work. You are simplistic beyond words.

Insulting people is a good way to get yourself removed from the thread.

No, it doesn't

Yes, it does.

and your saying so means absolute squat.

Vulgarity will get you a time out. Would you please remove that.

And what if you didn't have any?

Pretty sure even if I didn't have any friends or family, I would still have neighbors. Oh wait, you ignored that part, didn't you?

Would you willingly starve to death?

I don't think ANYONE would do so willingly :think:

Besides...

Hunger is a pretty strong motivator...

For even when we were with you, we commanded you this: If anyone will not work, neither shall he eat.For we hear that there are some who walk among you in a disorderly manner, not working at all, but are busybodies.Now those who are such we command and exhort through our Lord Jesus Christ that they work in quietness and eat their own bread. - 2 Thessalonians 3:10-12 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2Thessalonians3:10-12&version=NKJV

"If a man does not work, he SHALL NOT eat."

:think:

So, you'd be prepared to go into run down council estates and charitably provide for people who without government aid would be starving?

If I could offer charity, I would, if it would benefit the one I offer it to. Of course, they would have to work for it, but sure.

Those without family or friends who could support and neighbours in a similar position whereby benefits are the only means of buying food?

Huh? Did you forget a word somewhere in there? Because that question didn't make any sense...

Do you ever think things through in any depth or do you just bloviate?

:blabla:

Once again, many people aren't in a position where they have such support and what makes you think that family, friends and neighbours have some sort of financial means to aid anyway?

They don't, currently.

They would if we got rid of all the welfare and "safety net" socialist programs. Oh, and all the other stuff governments shouldn't be doing either. Get rid of those things, too.

Yeah, right...

So you know my heart then? Are you God, or something? Who are you to say I love or don't love something/someone?

While denying the needy in society even temporary aid while between jobs even.

Correction:

While denying the needy in society aid from a source that should not be providing aid, thereby preventing them from harming themselves.

There's plenty people who are on benefits who are actively looking for work

Good for them! :thumb:

and reliant on such in the interim.

You mean addicted to...

Instead of taking money from the government, they could lean on family, friends, or neighbors who would be willing to help them, and you cannot say that there wouldn't be ANY, because most people are willing to help out if it wasn't too much of a burden.

Heck, you don't even get the basics right, as follows:

:blabla:

Of course it isn't and you should be embarrassed at such a misquote, as scholarly as you seem to think you are where it comes to the Bible.

"For the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil".

"Kinds of" was added later.

For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows. - 1 Timothy 6:10 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Timothy6:10&version=KJV

Could you retract your accusation against me that I misquoted?

There's many an atrocious act where money plays no part at all, like rape, child molestation etc so quit lecturing when you can't even recognize the downright obvious.

Sounds like someone doesn't know that "all" doesn't always mean "all"...

For example...

Then all the land of Judea, and those from Jerusalem, went out to him and were all baptized by him in the Jordan River, confessing their sins. - Mark 1:5 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark1:5&version=NKJV

No, not the entire population of Judea went out to be baptised by John...

 

[quip]

You seem to love ignoring portions of my argument and then claiming that my argument is unreasonable.

Here's what I ACTUALLY said:



So how about it, Artie, do people have NEIGHBORS to help them?





Do people live out in the middle of nowheresville or something according to you?

Because last I checked, most people have a neighbor or two...



Good for them! :thumb:



Insulting people is a good way to get yourself removed from the thread.



Yes, it does.



Vulgarity will get you a time out. Would you please remove that.



Pretty sure even if I didn't have any friends or family, I would still have neighbors. Oh wait, you ignored that part, didn't you?



I don't think ANYONE would do so willingly :think:

Besides...

Hunger is a pretty strong motivator...

For even when we were with you, we commanded you this: If anyone will not work, neither shall he eat.For we hear that there are some who walk among you in a disorderly manner, not working at all, but are busybodies.Now those who are such we command and exhort through our Lord Jesus Christ that they work in quietness and eat their own bread. - 2 Thessalonians 3:10-12 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2Thessalonians3:10-12&version=NKJV

"If a man does not work, he SHALL NOT eat."

:think:



If I could offer charity, I would, if it would benefit the one I offer it to. Of course, they would have to work for it, but sure.



Huh? Did you forget a word somewhere in there? Because that question didn't make any sense...



"Kinds of" was added later.

For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows. - 1 Timothy 6:10 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Timothy6:10&version=KJV

Could you retract your accusation against me that I misquoted?



Sounds like someone doesn't know that "all" doesn't always mean "all"...

For example...

Then all the land of Judea, and those from Jerusalem, went out to him and were all baptized by him in the Jordan River, confessing their sins. - Mark 1:5 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark1:5&version=NKJV

No, not the entire population of Judea went out to be baptised by John...

Do you live in a bubble?

 

[JudgeRightly]

Do you live in a bubble?

Are you able to make an actual argument against my post instead of this nonsense?

 

[quip]

Are you able to make an actual argument against my post instead of this nonsense?

Not if you live in a bubble.

 

[Tambora]

I do not have a physical disability and I have received diagnosis otherwise but I do not agree with it.

If it's not a physical disability then it is a mental disability.
A mental disability can have a wide range from anything like severe depression to schizophrenia and everything in between.
What was your diagnosis from the doctor that you disagree with?

 

[Stripe]

Are the needs of the poor provided for?

You did not ask about that. :idunno:

You are not explaining yourself.

Taxing rich people to feed poor people is theft. Stealing is wrong.

It's pretty simple.

I honestly don't know what welfare is and I don't believe I am on it. I believe that if I were to ask it might be possible to be on it, but I do not know what changes would occur.

You don't know what welfare is? It's when you apply to the government for money or aid. In my opinion, it's not necessarily immoral to do so, but it is almost certainly immoral for such a system to be implemented.

 

[Stripe]

What would Jesus do?

Who are you? :idunno:

 

[Stripe]

Fact : There are many people in America who through no fault of their own, are unable to earn a living . People who have lost their jobs through no fault of their own and are struggling to find another job . People with spouses and children who have to feed and house them .
People who are too disabled to work or too ill , offering from diseases and disorders of various kinds.. People who are to mentally ill to work and must be confined to mental institutions . And other adverse circumstances .

One in every six people?

 

[Stripe]

Rather, it's more like the government stealing from everyone, taking a cut of what was taken, and then them redistributing the money, to where everyone is poorer.

Yeah, that's more accurate.

 

[Stripe]

And for what reason should a person be concerned about this?

You don't care about theft? :AMR:

Do we pity the rich now?

Justice for all. :up:

Tax money is much better put into helping the poor than dumping massive amounts into the military or the myriad of gov't programs.

There are necessary functions of government. Can you name one? Hint: You just did, alongside an implied myriad of non-necessary functions.

 

[Stripe]

It's also stealing from the "rich" and giving it to corporations.

Bankrupt corporations are not poor? :AMR:

Dude, if you want to disagree with me, try thinking things through first. :up:

 

[Jonahdog]

Taxing rich people to feed poor people is theft. Stealing is wrong.

So, if someone does not have enough to eat, does the government have any responsibility? What would you have the government do?
Give us a solution.

 

[JudgeRightly]

So, if someone does not have enough to eat,

Then he should work to earn enough to buy something to eat.

does the government have any responsibility? What would you have the government do?
Give us a solution.

Why does the government have to be involved at all?

Why not, instead of relying on the government, rely on family, friends, and neighbors to support you while looking for work, and then, if necessary, support you as you work your way towards being independent again?

For even when we were with you, we commanded you this: If anyone will not work, neither shall he eat.For we hear that there are some who walk among you in a disorderly manner, not working at all, but are busybodies.Now those who are such we command and exhort through our Lord Jesus Christ that they work in quietness and eat their own bread. - 2 Thessalonians 3:10-12 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2Thessalonians3:10-12&version=NKJV

 

[Crucifer]

So you are envious? You should repent of that.

I don't need to repent for being knowledgeable of how money works in America's vicious capitalism. They aren't blessed for having it, because they don't work for it. The poor work and are exploited for other's gain.
That is not the system the Bible speaks upon about wealth being a 'blessing', that is just Babylon rearing it's head which you are very much a part of.

I love the poor.

In fact, I love the poor so much that I want them to work hard so they have the opportunity to have enough wealth to pass on to their children.

:yawn: Same old story; the right wing's rinse and repeat method.
But even when we suggest that maybe we should up minimum wage or, at the very least, stop pretending that there's enough high paying jobs for every worker all a sudden you're back defending your Babylon.

 

[JudgeRightly]

I don't need to repent for being knowledgeable of how money works

You apparently don't know how money works, nor how people behave, either.

in America's vicious capitalism.

What we have is not capitalism, or, at the very least, it's not pure capitalism. We do not have a free market.

They aren't blessed for having it, because they don't work for it.

Right, because people are too lazy and used to living off the teat of the government.

:think:

You should pay attention to what I've been saying, because we are agreeing quite a lot.

The poor work and are exploited for other's gain.

Do all employers "exploit" their employees? or do most hire people to work for them so that their business will prosper?

Also, How many poor people hire other people to work for them?

I would imagine, not very many.

So, it's pretty much either work for a person richer than you are, or don't work at all.

:think:

That is not the system the Bible speaks upon about wealth being a 'blessing', that is just Babylon rearing it's head which you are very much a part of.

:blabla:

God says that if a man does not work, he shall not eat.

God commands men to "serve one another."

That's how an economy works, by men serving one another.

:yawn: Same old story; the right wing's rinse and repeat method.

:blabla:

But even when we suggest that maybe we should up minimum wage or,

Minimum wage is a leftist idea.

A man has the right to do what he wants with his own money. If he wants to pay one man $5 an hour, and another man $50 an hour, for the same job, he has the right to do that.

at the very least, stop pretending that there's enough high paying jobs for every worker all a sudden you're back defending your Babylon.

Who said anything about "high paying jobs"?

Any job will do, so long as they're working.

 

[ok doser]

The poor work and are exploited for other's gain.

if you want to start a company whose business model is based on something other than the profit motive, nobody's stopping you :idunno:

...stop pretending that there's enough high paying jobs for every worker...

define "high paying"

is 30k/year enough?

60k?

90k?

explain what you base that on - include annual living expenses

or admit that you're just blowing wind out your every orifice and don't have any practical experience in the real world

 

[Jacob]

If it's not a physical disability then it is a mental disability.
A mental disability can have a wide range from anything like severe depression to schizophrenia and everything in between.
What was your diagnosis from the doctor that you disagree with?

Schizophrenia F20. I do not even know if there was an official doctor.

 

[Arthur Brain]

You seem to love ignoring portions of my argument and then claiming that my argument is unreasonable.

Here's what I ACTUALLY said:



So how about it, Artie, do people have NEIGHBORS to help them?

Homeless people don't and most people in general don't. What on earth makes you think that people usually have neighbours who could aid them financially? In run down areas, council estates etc a lot of people are in the same boat. Even in average areas people don't have neighbours who could aid them in the main so where are you getting this notion from?

Do people live out in the middle of nowheresville or something according to you?

Because last I checked, most people have a neighbor or two...

See above.

Good for them! :thumb:

Yes, it is and unless it's a case of long term benefits for people who are too sick to work then 'welfare/benefits is a short term aid for people between jobs in general.

Insulting people is a good way to get yourself removed from the thread.

I'll remember that the next time you high five doser for one of his "doozies"...

lain:

Yes, it does.

Nope. (This is fun...)

Vulgarity will get you a time out. Would you please remove that.

:AMR:

What vulgarity? Squat is slang for nothing so no, I won't remove it.

Pretty sure even if I didn't have any friends or family, I would still have neighbors. Oh wait, you ignored that part, didn't you?

All addressed above.

I don't think ANYONE would do so willingly :think:

Besides...

Hunger is a pretty strong motivator...

For even when we were with you, we commanded you this: If anyone will not work, neither shall he eat.For we hear that there are some who walk among you in a disorderly manner, not working at all, but are busybodies.Now those who are such we command and exhort through our Lord Jesus Christ that they work in quietness and eat their own bread. - 2 Thessalonians 3:10-12 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2Thessalonians3:10-12&version=NKJV

"If a man does not work, he SHALL NOT eat."

:think:

There's a difference between people refusing to pull their weight in a tribe and people who are out of work.

If I could offer charity, I would, if it would benefit the one I offer it to. Of course, they would have to work for it, but sure.

That's offering someone a job rather than charity but if you're in a position to do that then fair enough.

Huh? Did you forget a word somewhere in there? Because that question didn't make any sense...

Not sure what was tripping you up really but for people who don't have friends, family or neighbours that can help then benefits are the only way they can sustain themselves.

"Kinds of" was added later.

For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows. - 1 Timothy 6:10 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Timothy6:10&version=KJV

Could you retract your accusation against me that I misquoted?

Sure, although why you'd go with the KJV as oppose to translations that make sense is another matter.

Sounds like someone doesn't know that "all" doesn't always mean "all"...

For example...

Then all the land of Judea, and those from Jerusalem, went out to him and were all baptized by him in the Jordan River, confessing their sins. - Mark 1:5 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark1:5&version=NKJV

No, not the entire population of Judea went out to be baptised by John...

Sounds like someone needs to learn some context. Money is not the root of all evil which is obvious. It's the root of all kinds of evil for sure but nowhere near all.

Oh, and how do you know that "all" in that passage didn't mean all?

 

[Jacob]

You did not ask about that. :idunno:



Taxing rich people to feed poor people is theft. Stealing is wrong.

It's pretty simple.



You don't know what welfare is? It's when you apply to the government for money or aid. In my opinion, it's not necessarily immoral to do so, but it is almost certainly immoral for such a system to be implemented.

Do you understand paying into Social Security and Medicare when you work? That is what I did before. I do not know if I applied for money or aid or if they chose to give it to me. There is Social Security and DSHS.

Are any rich people being taxed to feed the poor?

 

[Arthur Brain]

Do you understand paying into Social Security and Medicare when you work? That is what I did before. I do not know if I applied for money or aid or if they chose to give it to me. There is Social Security and DSHS.

Are any rich people being taxed to feed the poor?

I think you mean the DHSS, the department for health and social security, in which case you will have been receiving payments.