ECT Moment of Salvation Compared to Water Baptism

[God's Truth]

I agree they broke his law of love. What does Jesus say about love and commandments?
Jn. 14:23 21 Whoever has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves me.

Keeps them is about obeying Jesus' commands.

 

[God's Truth]

It is about mostly about sermon on the mount. He is teaching us how to love.

The whole Bible is a teaching on how to love.

 

[God's Truth]

Israel was still under Roman rule. That is clearly not the restoration of the fortunes of Judah and Jerusalem.

Jesus is the restoration.

You keep thinking of worldly things. Think of what is spiritual.

Began, but certainly not completed.

Jesus is the one who said it is finished.

How many times do you have to hear that from Jesus?


Jesus said he came to fulfill. Jesus did what he came to do.

Jesus said it was finished.

Luke 24:44
He said to them, "This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms."

Luke 22:37
It is written: 'And he was numbered with the transgressors'; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment."

John 4:34
"My food," said Jesus, "is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work.

John 17:4
I have brought you glory on earth by finishing the work you gave me to do.


John 19:30 When he had received the drink, Jesus said, "It is finished." With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.

Take of look at the kingdom of Israel under Solomon and you'll have some idea of what the rejoined kingdom of Israel will be like under the rule of Christ.

...not of this world.

John 18:36 Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jewish leaders. But now my kingdom is from another place."

 

[God's Truth]

Don't confuse the meaning of spiritual as simply meaning non-physical. That's not what it means.

The promises made to Israel included many physical blessings that have not yet been fulfilled.


I'm saying that it barely got started.

The throne of David is actually the throne belonging to God.

The Jews wanted an human king and rejected God as their King.

So God gave them a man to be their king.

David's throne IS GOD's THRONE.

The throne of David is a throne over Israel.

Jesus is over Israel and over everything.

 

[God's Truth]

For one, Christ sitting on His throne in Jerusalem, ruling the entire world with an iron rod.



Israel's unbelief stopped it temporarily.

Unbelievable.

 

[turbosixx]

For one, Christ sitting on His throne in Jerusalem, ruling the entire world with an iron rod.

I believe he is now. Here is one passage that makes me think so.
1 Cor. 15:20 But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For as by a man came death, by a man has come also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ. 24 Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death.
I see when he comes again that will be the end and he will hand the kingdom over to God. I believe we are in his kingdom now, Col. 1:13.

I understand death to be the last enemy.

Israel's unbelief stopped it temporarily.

Do you think their unbelief will be able to stop it again when he comes back? If not, what would be different?

 

[turbosixx]

Why are you mocking? Why did you take out the rest of my answer?

Jesus died so that no one has to sacrifice animals to clean themselves, just so they could go to a temple to be near God's Spirit, for Jesus is the one who cleans us once and for all and we become the temple.

Sorry, I'm not mocking you. That basically the point of your post, this one to. You're saying Jesus cleansed us once and for so we do not have to continue to sacrifice animals. While that is true, I believe it's deeper than that. He died because animals can not forgive our sins.
Heb. 10:4 For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.

 

[God's Truth]

Sorry, I'm not mocking you. That basically the point of your post, this one to. You're saying Jesus cleansed us once and for so we do not have to continue to sacrifice animals. While that is true, I believe it's deeper than that. He died because animals can not forgive our sins.
Heb. 10:4 For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.

What is wrong with you? God commanded the shedding of blood for the stonement of one's soul. Without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness. The ceremonial works were commanded by God as a shadow of Jesus, as a teaching tool.

You need to back it up and wait before you try to mock again, or how about change and get rid of the man who enjoys mocking?

 

[Right Divider]

I believe he is now. Here is one passage that makes me think so.
1 Cor. 15:20 But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For as by a man came death, by a man has come also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ. 24 Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death.
I see when he comes again that will be the end and he will hand the kingdom over to God. I believe we are in his kingdom now, Col. 1:13.

The entirety of God's kingdom includes more than one component. God's kingdom come (Matt 6:10) includes a kingdom of heaven ON EARTH. That will have Christ as King over Israel and in turn, the entire earth.

I understand death to be the last enemy.

We still have death, until Christ finishes prophecy which includes:

• His return with His kingdom (Luke 19:12)
• His destroying His enemies at His return (Zech 14)
• His 1000 year reign (Rev 20).
• The two resurrections (Rev 20)
• The new heaven and the new earth (Rev 21, see also Isaiah 65-66)

Do you think their unbelief will be able to stop it again when he comes back? If not, what would be different?

Because He will make a new covenant with the house of Judah and house of Israel. Just like He said that He would.

He will separate the wheat and the chaff when He returns.

 

[Danoh]

Do you really think your grammar is so great? You like to demean people and you don't seem to see yourself. You have more than a grammar and comprehension problem.

Nonsense.

For there are some people on here I barely ever call out.

While others have superb writing skills.

It just so happens you and some others on here are in neither group.

Some of the former of the two I simply ignore.

AMR is an example - his writing skills are often superb.

At the same time, I strongly disagree with many of his views, but highly esteem him nevertheless, even though I often ignore replying to his posts.

You take heir - I find she is very well studied in the Scriptures and just as nicely often succinct in her posts.

I also find that in contrast to her pals she is often much more direct than insulting (lol, me often being almost her sole exception to that rule).

I still strongly disagree with some her views, and often do not bother responding to them.

Nope - I have thought out each person on here, just as clearly.

Tell ya what, GT - let's just ignore one another's posts, from here on out.

That way you can have your pie-in-the sky, absent of any good or bad from me.

Lol - there comes GD and company saying they want in on this great deal - self-delusion and birds of a feather apparantly running together :chuckle:

 

[turbosixx]

Water baptism isn't about getting wet and washing your flesh, it is about a promise to God that you will stop the sins that you do.



I do have words from Jesus: Repent or perish.

I agree with this statement 100% but I believe that is only part of what water baptism is/does.


Think about it this way. John baptized people with a baptism of repentance yet the bible doesn't tell us any of those people were saved. On Pentecost, 3,000 souls were saved by being baptized in the name of Jesus.

 

[God's Truth]

Nonsense.

For there are some people on here I barely ever call out.

While others have superb writing skills.

It just so happens you and some others on here are in neither group.

Some of the former of the two I simply ignore.

AMR is an example - his writing skills are often superb.

At the same time, I strongly disagree with many of his views, but highly esteem him nevertheless, even though I often ignore replying to his posts.

You take heir - I find she is very well studied in the Scriptures and just as nicely often succinct in her posts.

I also find that in contrast to her pals she is often much more direct than insulting (lol, me often being almost her sole exception to that rule).

I still strongly disagree with some her views, and often do not bother responding to them.

Nope - I have thought out each person on here, just as clearly.

Tell ya what, GT - let's just ignore one another's posts, from here on out.

That way you can have your pie-in-the sky, absent of any good or bad from me.

Lol - there comes GD and company saying they want in on this great deal - self-delusion and birds of a feather apparantly running together :chuckle:

You can't defend your beliefs against my beliefs and proof by the scriptures, so you want to ignore me. Who cares what you think of people personally? Get over yourself. This is a debate site about scriptures and doctrine. This is not a site for Danoh to tell us about what he thinks of all of us.

 

[God's Truth]

I agree with this statement 100% but I believe that is only part of what water baptism is/does.


Think about it this way. John baptized people with a baptism of repentance yet the bible doesn't tell us any of those people were saved. On Pentecost, 3,000 souls were saved by being baptized in the name of Jesus.

You are missing something extremely important.

Those people who were baptized by John, they are the only people who were already saved and were God's and given to Jesus.

 

[turbosixx]

You are missing something extremely important.

Those people who were baptized by John, they are the only people who were already saved and were God's and given to Jesus.

Could you please elaborate on how you know they were saved? I see the bible telling us 3,000 were saved on Pentecost.
Acts 2:41 So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.

Jesus sent out the 12 and 70 and I don't know of the bible telling us anyone was saved before Jesus' death, burial and resurrection.

 

[God's Truth]

Could you please elaborate on how you know they were saved? I see the bible telling us 3,000 were saved on Pentecost.
Acts 2:41 So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.

Jesus sent out the 12 and 70 and I don't know of the bible telling us anyone was saved before Jesus' death, burial and resurrection.

There were people who BELIEVED IN JESUS before Pentecost.

 

[turbosixx]

Because He will make a new covenant with the house of Judah and house of Israel. Just like He said that He would.

It looks like he has already established a new covenant.

Heb. 7:11 Now if perfection had been attainable through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need would there have been for another priest to arise after the order of Melchizedek, rather than one named after the order of Aaron? 12 For when there is a change in the priesthood, there is necessarily a change in the law as well. 13 For the one of whom these things are spoken belonged to another tribe, from which no one has ever served at the altar. 14 For it is evident that our Lord was descended from Judah, and in connection with that tribe Moses said nothing about priests.

15 This becomes even more evident when another priest arises in the likeness of Melchizedek,

Has he not entered in with his blood?
Heb. 9:11 But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things that have come,[e] then through the greater and more perfect tent (not made with hands, that is, not of this creation) 12 he entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption.

He has a better covenant and saved those under the first.
Heb. 9:15 Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.

We can now enter the true tabernacle by his blood.
Heb. 10:19 Therefore, brothers,[c] since we have confidence to enter the holy places by the blood of Jesus, 20 by the new and living way that he opened for us through the curtain, that is, through his flesh, 21 and since we have a great priest over the house of God,

 

[turbosixx]

There were people who BELIEVED IN JESUS before Pentecost.

Were these men saved who believed before Pentecost?
Jn. 12:42 Nevertheless, many even of the authorities believed in him, but for fear of the Pharisees they did not confess it, so that they would not be put out of the synagogue;


I would suggest to you the bible tells us who is saved so we can better understand salvation.
Acts 2:47 praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to their number day by day those who were being saved.

I would suggest to you God has provided us a better way through Jesus' sacrifice that those before did not have.
Heb. 11:39 And all these, though commended through their faith, did not receive what was promised, 40 since God had provided something better for us, that apart from us they should not be made perfect.

 

[God's Truth]

Were these men saved who believed before Pentecost?
Jn. 12:42 Nevertheless, many even of the authorities believed in him, but for fear of the Pharisees they did not confess it, so that they would not be put out of the synagogue;


I would suggest to you the bible tells us who is saved so we can better understand salvation.
Acts 2:47 praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to their number day by day those who were being saved.

I would suggest to you God has provided us a better way through Jesus' sacrifice that those before did not have.
Heb. 11:39 And all these, though commended through their faith, did not receive what was promised, 40 since God had provided something better for us, that apart from us they should not be made perfect.

Are you denying that there were people who were already saved by the Father before Jesus came?

As for those who would not acknowledge Jesus before others, Jesus says he would not acknowledge them.

 

[turbosixx]

Are you denying that there were people who were already saved by the Father before Jesus came?

All I'm asking for is scriptural proof before Jesus' death, burial and resurrection.

More than one person please. 3,000 in one day on Pentecost which is immediately after his D,B & R.

 

[God's Truth]

All I'm asking for is scriptural proof before Jesus' death, burial and resurrection.

More than one person please. 3,000 in one day on Pentecost which is immediately after his D,B & R.

No kidding people were saved after Jesus died and rose again. Now just answer the question so we can go on with the discussion together. Do you believe that there were people saved by the Father before Jesus came?