ECT Moment of Salvation Compared to Water Baptism

[turbosixx]

No doubt, but that was not the first time that God "gave the Holy Spirit to man".

I don't think that you've given Joel the full treatment that it deserves.

The LORD has yet to roar out of Zion.

Joel 3:16-17 (AKJV/PCE)​

(3:16) The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD [will be] the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel. (3:17) So shall ye know that I [am] the LORD your God dwelling in Zion, my holy mountain: then shall Jerusalem be holy, and there shall no strangers pass through her any more. ​

​

I believe that has taken place.
We know that what is spoken of in Chapter 2 of Joel has taken place because Peter said "But this is what was uttered through the prophet Joel:" quoting the end of Chapter 2. In the very first verse of 3 Joel says: 3 “For behold, in those days and at that time, when I restore the fortunes of Judah and Jerusalem,

Peter also confirms that all the prophets were speaking of "these days".
Acts 3:24 And all the prophets who have spoken, from Samuel and those who came after him, also proclaimed these days.


What part of this has not happened in your understanding?
Joel 3:16
The Lord roars from Zion,
and utters his voice from Jerusalem,
and the heavens and the earth quake.
But the Lord is a refuge to his people,
a stronghold to the people of Israel.
17 “So you shall know that I am the Lord your God,
who dwells in Zion, my holy mountain.
And Jerusalem shall be holy,
and strangers shall never again pass through it.

 

[turbosixx]

One must repent of their sins. That is what Jesus taught. Why have you allowed yourself to be fooled away from the truth?

I believe we must repent of our sins.

 

[meshak]

Matt. 7:23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

Why did Jesus say these people would not enter the kingdom of Heaven?

They did not have spirit of love.

 

[turbosixx]

Jesus died so that NO ONE has to sacrifice animals anymore for their blood just to go to the temple to be near God's Spirit.

Jesus is the Sacrificial Lamb.

So Jesus died so animals would not have to?

 

[meshak]

Could you please give me a little more detail on what you mean?

Jesus was sent to change the whole system of the legalism. God's kingdom is all about love and peace.

 

[turbosixx]

They did not have spirit of love.

Jesus tells them their crime. What does the verse say?

Matt. 7:23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

 

[meshak]

Jesus tells them their crime. What does the verse say?

Matt. 7:23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

His law is love.

 

[turbosixx]

Make Christians by persuading them to REPENT OF THEIR SINS.

You have a verse?

Here is a verse, from Jesus' own mouth, that actually says how to make Christians, and it's by baptism.
Matt. 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

 

[turbosixx]

His law is love.

I agree they broke his law of love. What does Jesus say about love and commandments?
Jn. 14:23 21 Whoever has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves me.

 

[meshak]

I agree they broke his law of love. What does Jesus say about love and commandments?
Jn. 14:23 21 Whoever has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves me.

It is about mostly about sermon on the mount. He is teaching us how to love.

 

[Right Divider]

I believe that has taken place.
We know that what is spoken of in Chapter 2 of Joel has taken place because Peter said "But this is what was uttered through the prophet Joel:" quoting the end of Chapter 2. In the very first verse of 3 Joel says: 3 “For behold, in those days and at that time, when I restore the fortunes of Judah and Jerusalem,

Israel was still under Roman rule. That is clearly not the restoration of the fortunes of Judah and Jerusalem.

Peter also confirms that all the prophets were speaking of "these days".
Acts 3:24 And all the prophets who have spoken, from Samuel and those who came after him, also proclaimed these days.

Began, but certainly not completed.

What part of this has not happened in your understanding?
Joel 3:16
The Lord roars from Zion,
and utters his voice from Jerusalem,
and the heavens and the earth quake.
But the Lord is a refuge to his people,
a stronghold to the people of Israel.
17 “So you shall know that I am the Lord your God,
who dwells in Zion, my holy mountain.
And Jerusalem shall be holy,
and strangers shall never again pass through it.

Take of look at the kingdom of Israel under Solomon and you'll have some idea of what the rejoined kingdom of Israel will be like under the rule of Christ.

 

[turbosixx]

It is about mostly about sermon on the mount. He is teaching us how to love.

Without love we are nothing.
1 Cor. 13:1 If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.

I would suggest to you that everything the apostles taught was from Jesus and is for us.
Gal. 1:12 For I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it, but I received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ.

1 Cor. 11:23 For I received from the Lord what I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took bread,

Jesus said he had more to tell the apostles but they couldn't bear them at that time.
Jn. 16:12 “I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. 13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. 14 He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you.

 

[turbosixx]

Israel was still under Roman rule. That is clearly not the restoration of the fortunes of Judah and Jerusalem.

If we look physically, yes but Spiritually no. Paul said Jesus came into the world to save sinners. What could be of greater fortune than that?
Forgiveness would go out from Jerusalem.
Luke 24:47 and that repentance for the forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem.

Take of look at the kingdom of Israel under Solomon and you'll have some idea of what the rejoined kingdom of Israel will be like under the rule of Christ.

So you're saying nothing in those two verses has happened?

 

[Right Divider]

If we look physically, yes but Spiritually no. Paul said Jesus came into the world to save sinners. What could be of greater fortune than that?
Forgiveness would go out from Jerusalem.
Luke 24:47 and that repentance for the forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem.

Don't confuse the meaning of spiritual as simply meaning non-physical. That's not what it means.

The promises made to Israel included many physical blessings that have not yet been fulfilled.

So you're saying nothing in those two verses has happened?

I'm saying that it barely got started.

 

[turbosixx]

Don't confuse the meaning of spiritual as simply meaning non-physical. That's not what it means.

The promises made to Israel included many physical blessings that have not yet been fulfilled.

What would it take for them to be fulfilled?

I'm saying that it barely got started.

So man stopped it?

 

[Right Divider]

What would it take for them to be fulfilled?

For one, Christ sitting on His throne in Jerusalem, ruling the entire world with an iron rod.

So man stopped it?

Israel's unbelief stopped it temporarily.

 

[steko]

It is about mostly about sermon on the mount. He is teaching us how to love.

The 'sermon on the mount' is the law of Messiah in anticipation of a restored Israel under the prophesied Davidic King ruling from the city of the great King... 'the kingdom at hand'.

 

[God's Truth]

I believe we must repent of our sins.

You were recently saying only believe.

So just to clarify, do you believe one has to repent of their sins to get saved?

 

[God's Truth]

So Jesus died so animals would not have to?

Why are you mocking? Why did you take out the rest of my answer?

Jesus died so that no one has to sacrifice animals to clean themselves, just so they could go to a temple to be near God's Spirit, for Jesus is the one who cleans us once and for all and we become the temple.

 

[God's Truth]

You have a verse?

Here is a verse, from Jesus' own mouth, that actually says how to make Christians, and it's by baptism.
Matt. 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

Water baptism isn't about getting wet and washing your flesh, it is about a promise to God that you will stop the sins that you do.

I do have words from Jesus: Repent or perish.