ECT Moment of Salvation Compared to Water Baptism

Right Divider

Right Divider

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jsanford108 said:
How can one "follow the wrong command of Christ?"
If Christ commands it, we should follow it. (Maybe I am misunderstanding your point; if so, I apologize)
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Some of Christs commands CHANGED... that's the problem.

One example:

Luke 22:35-36 (AKJV/PCE)​
(22:35) And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing. (22:36) Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take [it], and likewise [his] scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
​

Do you follow this command of Christ?

Matt 16:20 (AKJV/PCE)​
(16:20) Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ. ​


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God's Truth

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Right Divider said:
Some of Christs commands CHANGED... that's the problem.

One example:

Luke 22:35-36 (AKJV/PCE)​
(22:35) And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing. (22:36) Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take [it], and likewise [his] scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
​

Do you follow this command of Christ?

Matt 16:20 (AKJV/PCE)​
(16:20) Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ. ​


​
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Why do you and others use that scripture as reason to not obey Jesus?

Did Jesus give you the thought that to obey him in order to enter salvation that you could not tell anyone about him ever?

What about the teaching Jesus DID give about you will not be saved if you are ashamed of him before other people?

Do you think Jesus contradicts himself and is unstable?

Why do you use the fact that Jesus told someone not to tell about him to be a command to everyone to enter salvation through him?
 
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Right Divider said:
Some of Christs commands CHANGED... that's the problem.

One example:

Luke 22:35-36 (AKJV/PCE)​
(22:35) And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing. (22:36) Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take [it], and likewise [his] scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
​

Do you follow this command of Christ?

Matt 16:20 (AKJV/PCE)​
(16:20) Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ. ​


​
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How do you ever get that is a command for the New Covenant?
 
J

jsanford108

New member
Danoh said:
Anyway, what RD had meant is that you are following commands of Christ not meant for a member of the Body of Christ, but for Israel.

Perhaps an example might make the distinction between the two, obvious...

We read in...

Matthew 23:1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, 23:2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: 23:3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

But then we read in...

Romans 7:1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?

7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Now, either one of those two was confused, or there exists some sort of a distinction between those two instructions, that needs to be observed.

And that is one of countless such examples found throughout the Scripture.

Nevertheles, Romans 14:5 towards you, in memory of Romans 5:8.
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Where are we told that Christ gave commands to Israel, that Christians shouldn't follow?

It seems much more likely that men choose which commands to follow, as it best fits their doctrines to ignore the other commands.
 
J

jsanford108

New member
Right Divider said:
Some of Christs commands CHANGED... that's the problem.

One example:

Luke 22:35-36 (AKJV/PCE)​
(22:35) And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing. (22:36) Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take [it], and likewise [his] scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
​

Do you follow this command of Christ?

Matt 16:20 (AKJV/PCE)​
(16:20) Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ. ​


​
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This is not a valid point. You are using two different events, in two different Gospel accounts, then saying they don't match. Well obviously. I could say that John 19 contradicts Luke 2. But that goes against logic, as they are clearly two different events, with two different subjects in their passages.

Also, your quote from Matthew 16, taken in context, reveals that Christ was not telling His Disciples to forever keep His Divine Nature secret, but only temporarily. Just like if I said "skip paying this month's internet bill;" that doesn't mean that we should always skip paying the bill, as that would lead to not having internet. But there are reasons, in certain times/scenarios, where the best course is to act contrary to normal (or past/future) circumstances.
 
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jsanford108 said:
This is not a valid point. You are using two different events, in two different Gospel accounts, then saying they don't match. Well obviously. I could say that John 19 contradicts Luke 2. But that goes against logic, as they are clearly two different events, with two different subjects in their passages.
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The first example is from a SINGLE "gospel account" and the LORD clearly CHANGED His instruction, hence His "but now".

jsanford108 said:
Also, your quote from Matthew 16, taken in context, reveals that Christ was not telling His Disciples to forever keep His Divine Nature secret, but only temporarily.
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No kidding. THAT is my point!

jsanford108 said:
Just like if I said "skip paying this month's internet bill;" that doesn't mean that we should always skip paying the bill, as that would lead to not having internet. But there are reasons, in certain times/scenarios, where the best course is to act contrary to normal (or past/future) circumstances.
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Exactly my point.
 
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There are commands, teachings that Jesus gave for us to enter and not enter.

Telling a man not to tell yet is not one of the ways Jesus teaches us how to get saved or how not to get saved.
 
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D

DAN P

Well-known member
jsanford108 said:
I am not avoiding it. Your formatting is terrible, as well as spelling, grammar, and basic use of vocabulary. It makes it difficult to read, let alone want to understand.

The fact is that Christ and the Apostles taught baptism as necessary. If you have a well-formatted, understandable question or inquiry, I would be happy to answer.

Plus, I was just tossing my educated deductions based on Scripture/history in.


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Hi and it is no answer as you are still avoiding what 1 Cor 15:29 and Heb 6:1 and 2 mean and you are not happy OR you can not answer what these verse mean , so who are you kidding !!

If you saw the Greek text and the translation of it , you can say that the FORMATTING IS TERRIBLE !!

dan p
 
D

DAN P

Well-known member
jamie said:
"He who believes and is baptized will be saved" (Mark 16:16)

Does Jesus keep his word?
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Hi and Mark 16:16 reads SHALL BE SAVED /SOZO is in the Greek FUTURE TENSE , PASSIVE VOICE and in the INDICATIVE MOOD !!

WHY the FUTURE TENSE , because there is ONLY one BAPTIZER, Eph 4:5 and / BAPTISMA today the HOLY SPIRIT and the Future tense is used because Mark 16:16 will happen during JACOB'S TROUBLE and not until then !!

Heb 6:1 and 2 explain why we are to FORSAKE THE TEACHING of Christ and verse 2 means that BAPTISMS are also to be FORSAKEN !!

dan p
 
jamie

jamie

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LIFETIME MEMBER
DAN P said:
Hi and Mark 16:16 reads SHALL BE SAVED /SOZO is in the Greek FUTURE TENSE , PASSIVE VOICE and in the INDICATIVE MOOD !!

WHY the FUTURE TENSE , because there is ONLY one BAPTIZER, Eph 4:5 and / BAPTISMA today the HOLY SPIRIT and the Future tense is used because Mark 16:16 will happen during JACOB'S TROUBLE and not until then !!

Heb 6:1 and 2 explain why we are to FORSAKE THE TEACHING of Christ and verse 2 means that BAPTISMS are also to be FORSAKEN !!
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Garbage, Idon't agree.

Forsake the teaching of Christ and he will forsake you.
 
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jamie said:
Garbage, Idon't agree.

Forsake the teaching of Christ and he will forsake you.
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2Tim 2:10-13 (AKJV/PCE)​
(2:10) Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. (2:11) [It is] a faithful saying: For if we be dead with [him], we shall also live with [him]: (2:12) If we suffer, we shall also reign with [him]: if we deny [him], he also will deny us: (2:13) If we believe not, [yet] he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself. ​
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turbosixx

turbosixx

New member
Anthony Burgess said:
No. I was expressing the biblical terminology for the idea of a public profession of faith.

I believe in bedside confessions and dying surrender to Jesus. Some people who do this, were never physically baptized and I know that Jesus will honor His promise to save them.

I don’t think I’m comfortable giving a rigid answer on this.

Some publicly profess and others privately profess. God alone knows the heart. Those are my ultimate thoughts on the questions at hand.
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Ok just wanted to be sure. People say it's a public confession but I see no scriptural support for it.
 
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