ECT Moment of Salvation Compared to Water Baptism

[DAN P]

Does the bible call it a work or man?

Also, does that verse say "without" works?

Hi and in Eph 2:9 , says Not from works !!

And in Acts 26:20 , REPENTANCE is called a WORK !!

And in Acts 19:4 Repentance and Baptism are coupled together and are WORKS !!

dan p

 

[turbosixx]

Hi and in Eph 2:9 , says Not from works !!

Yes, not from works but it doesn't say without works. Can you imitate Paul without doing a single work?

 

[turbosixx]

You just now contradicted yourself...once more.



:chuckle:

Rom. 5: 6-8.

I'm merely pointing out what the bible says. The problem I see with a lot of folks is they use words and phrases that are not found in scripture. Was God not smart enough to use them?

 

[Danoh]

I'm merely pointing out what the bible says. The problem I see with a lot of folks is they use words and phrases that are not found in scripture. Was God not smart enough to use them?

Where are the words - "merely...problem... phrases" - and so on "found in scripture."

Your point is full of the holes of your own contradiction :chuckle:

Rom. 5: 6-8.

 

[turbosixx]

Where are the words - "merely...problem... phrases" - and so on "found in scripture."

Your point is full of the holes of your own contradiction :chuckle:

Rom. 5: 6-8.

You're starting to sound like RD.

I said the bible tells us belief is a work. Am I wrong?

 

[Danoh]

You're starting to sound like RD.

I said the bible tells us belief is a work. Am I wrong?

:chuckle: You've just insulted RD.

And YOU said "the bible tells us belief is a work."

And no, belief is NOT a work.

Just as, just now you CHOSE TO Believe that I am starting to "sound like" RD.

I believe the store across the way, is the store across the way.

Whether or not I work myself over there or not :chuckle:

And so on.

Belief is NOT a work.

I believe Rom. 5: 6-8.

Of course, I have come to believe that I should walk towards others in memory of what those passages assert was the case - in each our stead, 2,000 years ago.

I am thereby working out, or manifesting that salvation that Romans 5 asserts Christ ALONE FULLY Accomplished in each our stead.

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 5:7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. 5:11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

Period.

No - works - invloved - on - my - end - FOR - that - salvation.

And what YOU say is NOT going to change that.

And by the way, I am talking TO you NOT down AT you.

Which is why I often sign off with "Romans 5:6 TOWARD you."

Which goes to show YOU read things INTO a thing that are not ACTUALLY there.

And YOU need to STRONGLY consider that THIS just MIGHT ACTUALLY be the case.

In memory of Rom. 5: 6-8 - in each our stead.

 

[meshak]

:chuckle: You've just insulted RD.

And YOU said "the bible tells us belief is a work."

And no, belief is NOT a work.

Faith comes with work.

Jesus says if you love Me, keep My commands.

Do you think without loving Jesus, we still can be saved? Not!

 

[turbosixx]

:chuckle: You've just insulted RD.

Bout time, he hasn't stopped insulting me.

And no, belief is NOT a work.

This is why I don't think you and I will ever see eye to eye. In plain English the bible says it is but once again you're asking me to not believe what it says.

Jn. 6:28 Then they said to him, “What must we do, to be doing the works of God?” 29 Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.”

And by the way, I am talking TO you NOT down AT you.

Thanks, it does feel that way sometimes. Same goes for me.

Which goes to show YOU read things INTO a thing that are not ACTUALLY there.

I'll admit I'm no where near being perfect.

 

[glorydaz]

This is why I don't think you and I will ever see eye to eye. In plain English the bible says it is but once again you're asking me to not believe what it says.

Jn. 6:28 Then they said to him, “What must we do, to be doing the works of God?” 29 Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.”

Of course that verse tells you that our believing is "a work of God", doesn't it? It does not say believing is a work of man.

So, who does the work which persuades us to believe? God does. The work is His.

John 5:17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.​

The Jews understood that Jesus was saying the work was His, and they asked what it was that would persuade them to believe. He goes on to tell them what He has done.

John 6:30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?​

 

[Danoh]

Turbo, in the absence of a face to face, one will tend to fill that absence with one's own ideas about where someone is talking to them from.

One's "feels that way" is exactly what is often going on - one takes one's feeling that way, as being what is actually going on.

Which leaves one at the mercy of that false positive.

What's left then, in the absence of the face to face aspect ever missing on a forum - and that - with total strangers?

One thing is the person's pattern over time.

Not a moment here and there, rather a series of them over time.

Also, how does this same indivdual treat others when addressing them about a same problem or whatever?

But most important of all and beyond even that...is the choice we each have - of choosing to walk towards what ever is thrown our way, whether real, or imagined - from where the Scripture would have us walk towards such things from.

Now that...is something we can each easily choose to not only do, but to walk away from afterwards, completely unscathed from the various slings and arrows that are bound to come each our way, be they real, or our own imagining.

And you have to go with that and stick with it.

For there are many who will swear a blue streak up and down that what they are pettily, and ignorantly projecting on you as being what you are actually up to, is actually the case.

And that is a sure way to end up defeated by such.

That is a good way to end up as blind as such.

So you, see, whether or not someone has actually spit on you, yours is still a choice on your end of the equation, as to where you are going to choose to look at that from by faith.

From the lie that is one's own fleshly mind about what may or many not have actually happened, and from the added lie that is the flesh's need for payback, or from the truth that is "you know what, I think I'll just choose to look over at this situation and or individual from where Romans 5: 6-8 asserts God looks at us - whether or not we are getting along, just peachy, or not - from the Cross of His Dear Son.

And there is ever a victory in that - in Christ.

And a joy in knowing that "hey, look at this, I was able to focus on Him and where He looks at things from - to HIS EVER DESERVED GLORY...ALONE!!!"

Which is exactly what this is!!!

2 Corinthians 10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds; )

And this...

Romans 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

And oh so many more of those wondrous passages....

What is going on in all that? How does all this work in us both to will and to do of HIS good pleasure, during such moments?

2 Corinthians 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the LORD.

All because of, and therefore in memory of...Rom. 5: 6-8 - in each our stead!

Now how's that for an ending of each one's post - in memory of Him and to His glory.

Man o man what a way to go out! What a way to end each post - the last thing on one's mind and in the very fiber of one's being, each time - " the glory of - HIM!!!"

We're talkin inward man revival! Yes!!!

We're talkin...

Ephesians 3:20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us, 3:21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

 

[turbosixx]

Of course that verse tells you that our believing is "a work of God", doesn't it? It does not say believing is a work of man.

So, who does the work which persuades us to believe? God does. The work is His.

John 5:17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.​

The Jews understood that Jesus was saying the work was His, and they asked what it was that would persuade them to believe. He goes on to tell them what He has done.

John 6:30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?​

They weren't asking God to work but asked Jesus what works he does. They didn't recognize him as God.

If the work is God's work that we believe then everyone is saved because God desires all to be saved.

who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth

For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,

 

[glorydaz]

They weren't asking God to work but asked Jesus what works he does. They didn't recognize him as God.

Exactly. He had said the work of God was that they believe. They asked Him what was the work He did that would make them believe.


They were asking, 'If you're claiming our believing is the work of God (which He did), then what is it you do so that we may believe.' Quite plain really...that the work is God's not man's. He is the giver ...the doer of the work, and we are the receivers...those who believe in that work.

If the work is God's work that we believe then everyone is saved because God desires all to be saved.

who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth

For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,

Except He has given men free will.

He accomplished His work on the cross through which we can be saved.

He works at persuading us with the Gospel.

He didn't create robots which would have been the easy way to fulfill His desire that all would be saved...and come to the knowledge of the truth. "Come to the knowledge of the Truth" answers both.

That knowledge has to come from God's word.

 

[turbosixx]

Exactly. He had said the work of God was that they believe. They asked Him what was the work He did that would make them believe.


They were asking, 'If you're claiming our believing is the work of God (which He did), then what is it you do so that we may believe.' Quite plain really...that the work is God's not man's. He is the giver ...the doer of the work, and we are the receivers...those who believe in that work.



Except He has given men free will.

He accomplished His work on the cross through which we can be saved.

He works at persuading us with the Gospel.

He didn't create robots which would have been the easy way to fulfill His desire that all would be saved...and come to the knowledge of the truth. "Come to the knowledge of the Truth" answers both.

That knowledge has to come from God's word.

I looked at several commentaries and none say it's God's work. What they agree on is that it's the work that God requires. I know you believe God requires us to believe.

I agree God gives us free will. What I disagree with is that we can be saved without doing any work because Jesus did it on the cross for us. Can you point me to an inspired writer that tells us about Jesus' work on the cross?

We are not saved by works but are we saved without them? Can you be an imitator of Paul without doing any work at all? Can you love without doing any work at all?

 

[God's Truth]

It doesn't matter at all what I say, what matters is what God says. What does God's word say?

I would suggest to you that man changes the language and therefore changes the meaning. Consider this:
The bible tells us belief is a work. If we go by the logic that works are not required, then belief isn't even required.

That is true what you said about believing. That is why the Calvinists think they have the true gospel, because they don't believe and obey until they are saved. It is sad how the false doctrines spread out in all kind of ways.

However, you preach falseness too. Do you really want to say I wasn't saved when I say Jesus saved me? I got baptized in water after he saved me. I was, however, baptized before by two false denominations. Are you going to claim at least one of those baptisms were right for a saving? Jesus saved me and gave me amazing knowledge, yet I wanted to get water baptized again. So since you judge me, talk about this with me.

 

[God's Truth]

Yes, not from works but it doesn't say without works. Can you imitate Paul without doing a single work?

Just listen to yourself...you have accepted a little bit of their false teachings, it shows when you cannot say yes you did do something, you obeyed Jesus who says to repent of your sins.

The works people misunderstand Paul as saying we don't have to do are the purification works.

Now that you know that, preach the truth more surely and say yes we have to do a work. Then quote James and Peter, and Jesus himself!

 

[God's Truth]

I'm merely pointing out what the bible says. The problem I see with a lot of folks is they use words and phrases that are not found in scripture. Was God not smart enough to use them?

In the Bible, God also saved people before a water baptism; yet you preach that it was a mistake if He saved others before they had one.

 

[glorydaz]

I looked at several commentaries and none say it's God's work. What they agree on is that it's the work that God requires. I know you believe God requires us to believe.

It is man's duty to believe, but it is the work of God to persuade us to believe.

Believing can't be a work because of what Paul writes here. "To him that worketh NOT, but believeth..." That shows plainly that believing is not a work of man's.

Romans 4:4-5 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.​

Think of all the things Jesus did to make people believe in Him. He healed the blind, raised the dead, fed the 5,000, miracle after miracle. Right? All that before He ever went to the Cross.

John 5:17 tells us, "My Father is working....and I am working."

Luke 24:19 Matthew 11:2 Mark 5:20 Luke 8:39

I agree God gives us free will. What I disagree with is that we can be saved without doing any work because Jesus did it on the cross for us. Can you point me to an inspired writer that tells us about Jesus' work on the cross?

The only inspired writers I know of are found in the Bible, and it's there. Dying for sins probably tops the list.

We are not saved by works but are we saved without them? Can you be an imitator of Paul without doing any work at all? Can you love without doing any work at all?

Salvation is a Gift we cannot earn with all our blood, sweat, tears, or good intentions. It's a gift so that man is never able to BOAST (which man is ever so prone to do), and that all the world will give all the Glory to our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ.

We cease from our own efforts. Trusting and resting in Him is what we were created to do. This is how we stay out of the Lord's way, and He is able to perform His work in and through us. We are merely the body He uses to accomplish His will. He performs that work....not us. The Spirit even gives us the desire to please God. Our job is to trust and rest in Him.

Philippians 1:6
Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:​

 

[glorydaz]

In the Bible, God also saved people before a water baptism; yet you preach that it was a mistake if He saved others before they had one.

Badger is at it again. :nono:

 

[God's Truth]

Where are the words - "merely...problem... phrases" - and so on "found in scripture."

Your point is full of the holes of your own contradiction :chuckle:

Rom. 5: 6-8.

You should try to debate me more rather than taking off and not coming back after I reply to something you say.

 

[God's Truth]

Badger is at it again. :nono:

Stop posting just to insult. Do you really think that BR wants you to do that to me?